Had Sharon rather than Netanyahu continued as Israeli PM, could things have been different?

[Tooting Carmen]

Massive influx of Russkies + intifada.

Yeah, I get the impression that the Russian Jews are somewhat more right-leaning and nationalistic than the earlier Zionist settlers, who tended to come much more from Western Europe and in some cases wanted to create a socialist/kibbutz paradise, not least after the horrors of Nazism. (Ironically, Nazism of course was itself a type of socialism, but let's leave that aside for now).

[Longbowman]

Yeah, I get the impression that the Russian Jews are somewhat more right-leaning and nationalistic than the earlier Zionist settlers, who tended to come much more from Western Europe and in some cases wanted to create a socialist/kibbutz paradise, not least after the horrors of Nazism. (Ironically, Nazism of course was itself a type of socialism, but let's leave that aside for now).

Mate the majority of kibbutznik families arrived in Israel before WWII started - many from Eastern Europe. It's just the people who came in the 80s and 90s were so right-wing - they were quasi refugees from a communist dictatorship.

[Tooting Carmen]

Mate the majority of kibbutznik families arrived in Israel before WWII started - many from Eastern Europe.

I knew some did, but most? Weren't quite a few penniless refugees from Europe during and immediately after the Nazi occupation of the continent?

[Longbowman]

I knew some did, but most? Weren't quite a few penniless refugees from Europe during and immediately after the Nazi occupation of the continent?

Some kibbutzes were formed by WWII survivors - mostly from Eastern Europe, again. At least one by partisan veterans.

[Tooting Carmen]

Some kibbutzes were formed by WWII survivors - mostly from Eastern Europe, again. At least one by partisan veterans.

Have you ever visited a kibbutz? What did you think of it?

[Longbowman]

Have you ever visited a kibbutz? What did you think of it?

Yeah quite a few but I usually stayed in the hotels and used them as a base to see other parts of the country. I never really spent much time in the kibbutzim themselves - ie, the residential parts.

They're great but obviously the entire country can't be kibbutzim, not without kicking out 5/6 of the population. Also apparently they have weird social hierarchies. But that's second-hand tales.

My mum worked on a kibbutz when she was younger.

[Tooting Carmen]

I must admit I do have a certain fascination for Israel, and not just due to it being so central to global politics (for good and for ill) either. It is at once a very religious, history-laden and traditional society, which at the same time is scientifically very advanced and innovative, allows women in the army including in senior positions and had a female PM before almost any other country (including Britain). (In fact, I've read it was Golda Meir's personal friendship with Indira Gandhi that started the Israel-India alliance).

[Skjaldemjøden]

What I want to know is how has Netanyahu been re-elected so many times as PM now, given that his corruption and mismanagement (quite apart from his authoritarian and racist beliefs and policies) are so well-known?

He's extremely charismatic and a decade long media witch hunt against him has rendered his voters indifferent to allegations. His ties to world leaders and achievements in foreign relations have also genuinly wowed many Israelis.

[Tooting Carmen]

https://benjaminstudebaker.com/2014/...-ariel-sharon/

[Tooting Carmen]

bump