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Thread: The Slavs in Al-Andalus. A history of Elite people in muslim medieval Spain.

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    Default The Slavs in Al-Andalus. A history of Elite people in muslim medieval Spain.

    The Arrival of Slavs to Muslim Medieval Spain




    - These can be subdivided into two groups: one consisted of slaves of Slavic origin who were recognized as highly valued goods there, and the other were Slavic warriors who voluntarily became mercenaries in the service of the Arab rulers of Spain; The latter must have been certainly attracted to the fabulous wealth of al-Andalus.

    - Slavic slaves sold to Muslim Spain included concubines for the harems of wealthy Arabs, who were especially valued for their light complexion and blond hair, and men, often taken as young boys, who either became servants public, or palace servants, or eunuchs in the mentioned harems, or, in the case of physically stronger specimens, in troops of the elite Slavic guards, who served as Praetorian guards whose soldiers enjoyed special privileges among Arab rulers from Spain.

    - It should also be added that a part of Slavic slaves who arrived in Spain was later transferred to other locations in the Muslim world, such as North Africa, where the existence of Slavic guards has also been confirmed, and even the Middle East.

    - According to ibn-Hauqal, Slavic slaves were taken to Muslim Spain via Calabria, in southern Italy, the Lombard kingdom, Frankia (France) and Galicia.

    - To Galicia they must have been most likely taken by sea by Danish merchants or by Polabian Slavs. Although many historians will surely accredit the former with such facts, the participation of Slavic merchants cannot be completely excluded.

    - The Polabian Slavs were very skilled sailors and ship builders; The Polabian city of Vineta was one of the largest and richest shopping centers in contemporary Europe.

    - The Polabian Slavs, especially the Véletos, established their own enclave in the Utrecht area, and settled in parts of England, apparently as allies of the Danes.

    - The Polabian-Pomeranian Slavs are also known to have even established themselves in Iceland in the Nordic era and also extensively in the North of the eastern Slavic region.

    - Finally we can also add that the northern medieval Russian republic of Novgorod, whose population to a large degree descended from Polabian-Pomeranian Slavs, a fact that is nowadays overlooked, also carried out a prosperous trade; In 1134 a Novgorodian merchant fleet visited Denmark. Russian merchants also appeared in Baghdad in 846, where they required the services of local Slavic interpreters.

    - The Slavs had their own active part in the creation of the famous German Hansa as well; many of its member cities were known as wendisch (Slavs), including Lübeck, originally the Slavic city of Lubeka, which was one of the founding members of that league, and also its de facto capital, where the Hanseatic judicial courts took place together with the governing councils known as the Hansetage.

    - Both in the case of Frankia (France) and that of the Lombard kingdom, it is clear that these Slavic slaves must have been prisoners of war captured by the Franks and Lombards in their wars against the Slavs, and also slaves that were bought by merchants Jews and slave Catholics in the western sectors of the Slavic Region; It is known that Prague was then a major center of the slave trade.

    - There were two main slave trade centers in Frankia: that of Verdun was controlled by Catholic merchants, and that of Lyon by its Jewish counterparts. The main roads through Frankia passed through Mainz [Mogunce] in Germany, Verdun and Lyon, to Spain.

    Slavic slaves born from Calabria were most likely of South Slavic origin; and again, some of them could have been Lombard and Venetian prisoners of war, while others could have even been carried by Slavic pirates, who sometimes also preyed on other Slavs.

    In some cases, Arabs could have avoided intermediaries by capturing slaves or hiring Slavic-based mercenaries on the Balkan coast.

    In 868 an Arab fleet attacked Ragusa (Dubrovnik).



    - According to a certain Italian chronicle, the Venetians were in fact involved in the Slavic slave trade, prisoners of war that they captured during their numerous wars against Slavic pirates, wars waged during the early history of the republic.

    - The Slavs themselves were also apparently involved in some degree in the enslavement and trade of both non-Slavs (Scandinavians, Franks / Germans, Avars, Lombards, Byzantines, Valacos, before or antae, and others) and Slavic congeners.

    - The latter is by no means impossible, since then the wars between Slavic tribes are not unknown, and furthermore, the events in Poland after 1989 show that there are always some scoundrels who are willing to sell to their countrymen.

    The Entering as Mercenaries



    - As for the Slavs who came to Muslim Spain on their own, to serve as mercenaries in the armies of the Arab rulers of Spain, we know that the most adventurous Slavs of both the Balkans and the shores of the South Baltic could have reached Spain without too much difficulty; The Mediterranean is largely an inland sea, with many coasts and islands that make navigation much easier than in the case of an open ocean. ´

    - The western Baltic Slavs had to make more difficult trips, but they could have easily used stops in several "Danelaws" [areas under Danish laws] Slavs established in the North Sea, one of which is the current area of ​​Utrecht in the The Netherlands (founded by the Véletos), and that Thomas Ebendorfer mentions as the Province Veletaborum (Province of the Veletos), as well as many more in England, where the western Slavic settlement during Viking times was surprisingly extensive.

    - It seems that the Danes made extensive use of the Slavs as mercenaries and settlers in parts of England, with the military virtues of the Slavs clearly appreciated by them as the most fearsome of all Scandinavians. This is not surprising, since Denmark, and to a lesser extent Sweden and Norway, itself experienced the fury of the Slavs.

    The Slavs came to Muslim Spain quite early.



    - Already in 762 a certain Arab diplomat named Abd ar-Rahman al-Fihri, who came from the East to rampage in favor of the Abbasids, had the nickname of as-Saqlabi (the Slavic), because he was tall, had reddish brown hair and blue eyes.

    - There were also many Slavs in the court of the Umayyad emir of Cordoba, al-Hakam I (796-822).

    - The Slavs in Muslim Spain quickly reached an important position in the social structure of the country, and many continued to play an important role in their politics later.

    - These "Spanish" Slavs found a powerful employer in the person of Abd ar-Rahman III (who reigned between 912 and 961, and since 929 as a caliph), one of the most exceptional monarchs of the Spanish line of the Umayyad dynasty.

    - Muslim Spain owes this government various reforms in its administration, the expansion to the Maghreb, the creation of a powerful army, the expansion and establishment of borders with Castilians and Leon with mostly successful and devastating military campaigns (for the Catholic States from the North), magnificent construction projects, an unprecedented development of the arts and sciences, as well as a general economic prosperity.

    The Slavic Guard of Abd ar-Rahman III



    Abd ar-Rahman III quickly recognized the high value of the Slavs, their bravery and loyalty, and their industriousness.

    - With this in mind, he organized an elite Praetorian guard, appropriately known as the Slavic Guard, who, in addition to protecting his person, was also charged with keeping the hereditary Arab aristocracy rebel and the anarchic Berber tribes under control, often launching rebellions against Arab domination.

    - The Slavic Guard is known to have been blindly obedient to the caliph, and was also one of the strongest and most disciplined military units of its time.

    - It is interesting to note that, according to Muslim laws, all non-Muslims who lived under a Muslim government were prohibited from carrying weapons, but this same prohibition did not apply to non-Muslims who arrived from outside Muslim domains (give Al- Islam, in Arabic).

    - The number of Slavs in the service of the Caliph of al-Andalus quickly increased. According to al-Maqqari, a seventeenth-century Arab historian, in the city of Cordoba alone reached 3,750 people, which later rose to 6,087, and at the end of the reign of Abd ar-Rahman III the amount was 13,750.

    - Many of these Slavs came to Spain as young boys, and such individuals easily became Muslims; they showed great attachment and loyalty to their protector, who did not spare them privileges and promotions.

    - Already in 939 Abd ar-Rahman III designates a certain Slavic named Naja as commander of his army in a war against the kingdom of Leon.

    - Many other Slavs also reached important positions in the army and in the public administration of the Spanish caliphate. This state of affairs continued during the reign of Abd ar-Rahman's successor, the caliph al-Hakam II (who reigned between 961 and 976), who was under the full influence of his Slavic Praetorians.

    The Slavic Kingdoms in Al-Andalus



    - Between 1011 and 1013 Muslim Spain disintegrates into approximately 30 states during an era of anarchy known as the Fitna; some of them seized the Slavs and ruled them.

    - The rulers of these states that were established on the ruins of the caliphate of Cordoba were known in Arabic as muluk at-tawaif (kings of parties) or kings of taifa in Spanish (and hence the period of the taifa), because they often they were supported by the various parties that forged their own domains in Muslim Spain.

    - This condition persisted until the early 1090s, when Muslim Spain is once again unified by the Almoravids. For example, a certain Slavic named Hayran, who was the leader of the Slavic party in the capital of Cordoba and a faithful follower of Caliph Hisham II (who reigned between 976 and 1009 and between 1010 and 1013), was also the governor of the province from Almeria where a state ruled by the Slavs was finally established.



    - At the same time, another Slav named Vadih was the governor of a northern border province of the Cordoba caliphate.

    - During the first part of the Taifa period a certain Slavic was the prince of Jaén, Baeza and Calatrava.

    - In some cases even the same names of these Slavic governors identify them as Slavs; That was certainly the case with Khayrah al-Saqlabi, the Slavic governor of the Taifa of Jativa, and Labib al-Saqlabi, the Slavic governor of Tortosa.

    All the states ruled by Slavs were of medium size compared to the other Taifa states

    - They were always located on the east coast of Spain, where, in most of the coastline, the population density was relatively high, and therefore we must conclude that the native populations they ruled were also relatively large, comparatively speaking.

    - The populations that lived there were - along with those in southern Spain, many of which were then under Berber rule - among the most racially heterogeneous in all of Iberia, which perhaps facilitated the seizure of power by the Slavs (and the Berbers ) in the areas where they established their respective States.

    - The Slavs established more lasting states in Almeria, Denia-Balearic Islands (in the period of 1015-1016 even briefly extended to Sardinia), Murcia, Tortosa and Valencia. During the first stage of the taifa period they also ruled for shorter periods of time in Jaén, Baeza and Calatrava (the Slavic prince mentioned above), while in the border province of Badajoz a Slavic named Sabur initially held power.

    The most successful Slavic ruler of the Taifa states was Mujahid al-Amiri

    - Ruler of Denia (later Denia-Balearic Islands), the son of a Christian woman (most of the Slavic people were at that time part of Christendom), although a devout Muslim himself.

    - He was also one of the brightest of all Taifa rulers in general.

    - He established his State in Denia in 1011, during the beginning of the Fitna, which saw the collapse of the central authority of Córdoba and the simultaneous appearance of the Taifa States.

    - Using the naval resources of his tiny state, and perhaps also employing "Slavic pirates turned into mercenaries," he soon extended his authority to the Balearic Islands.

    - He even briefly conquered Sardinia, or part of it, in 1015, when he invaded it with a fleet of 120 ships carrying 1,000 cavalry soldiers. But the following year a combined Genoese-Pisan force expelled him from Sardinia, causing significant losses, including the capture of his women and daughters. The Genoese were at that time an important naval and mercantile power in the Mediterranean; it seems that they were afraid that Sardinia would become a main base for the expeditions of Muslim privateers against their territory, while the Pisans were perhaps more concerned with safeguarding their commercial interests. Mujahid was also a notable patron of the sciences: in his capital he established a Koranic school that became renowned in the entire Muslim world, and also attracted many cultured men to his court.

    Another exceptional Slavic ruler of taifas was Khayran

    - He dominated Orihuela, Murcia and Almería.



    - In the latter he established his capital, fortifying and beautifying it during the process, in addition to building new buildings and a water supply system.

    - Khayran made his brother Zuhayr governor of Murcia, and it was he who succeeded him on the throne.

    - After his ascent, Zuhayr extended his domain from Almeria to almost reach Córdoba and Toledo as well as Jativa and Baeza; he also continued his brother's general policies.

    - However, he suffered serious setbacks when fighting against the Badis of Granada, and was killed in a battle in 1038.

    - The news of his untimely death caused immense dismay in Almeria, where he was soon replaced by Abd al-Aziz of Valencia, who arrived at the request of the inhabitants of Almeria.

    Traces of the Slavic presence in Spain can even be found in their place names

    - One of the districts that belong to the province of Shantarin (Santarem) is mentioned by medieval Arab geographers such as Saqlab (Slavic).

    - Unfortunately, we now do not know where exactly that district was located, although it is likely that the city of our day of Ceclavín on the Tagus River below, near the Portuguese border (in what is now the Spanish province of Extremadura) is in fact a Romance corruption of the dialectical Arabic Seqlabiyin (Slavs).

    - Another explanation of this place name was proposed by Charmoy: according to him, Saqlab was really an Arab corruption of Scalabis, the original name of Santarem.

    - The two main flaws in this hypothesis are the fact that Saqlab literally translates as "Slavic," and it is known that many place names across Europe have been named from some specific nationality that lived there, and also that Arabs had no reason to corruptly confuse Scalabis by transforming that word into his name for the Slavs, if no Slavs lived there in the first place.

    - In addition, some popular traditions and festivals still found in Spain today appear as not very different from those found among some Slavs.

    The Vandals. Another Slavic tribe?




    - It can be noted that the Vandals tribe (and for the same reason the Swedes, who could have been the same tribe), which is now mentioned as "Germanic", was actually of Slavic origin, and lived in Spain for some time, as the Germanic suevos did, whose name sounds very much like a corruption of the Slaveni or Slaveni Slavs (this matter surely deserves more investigation).

    - In fact some Polish historians made the connection between the ancient Slavs, on the one hand, and the Vandals and the Sueves, on the other, a long time ago.

    - It should be noted that the same Arabic name for Spain (al-Andalus) was derived from the name of the Vandals Al-Vandalus; thus, it was very appropriate for the Arabs to bring more Slavs (wendos or sales, vandulios, vandals) to this region.

    - Finally, we should not forget that the ruling family of the Visigoths (from which, among others, Alarico left) was known as the Balti (or Balthi); It is a very interesting name, because the Goths and Balts lived close to each other for some time.

    Slavic tribes serving to the Goth Army




    - Since it is known that some ancient peoples had invited foreigners to rule over them during unresolved succession disputes (the Germanic tribes invited Celtic princes, the Eastern Slavs invited Rúrik) it seems that these Balti (Balthi) could have been originally a princely family of the Balts, who were invited by the Goths to rule over them.

    - One could also point out the names that sound remarkably Slavs found among the ancient Goths (this is mistakenly denied by the Germanic propagandists), especially those with the suffix -mir, very common of many Slavic names, but practically non-existent among the Germanic ones.

    - But not only these: of interest is the Visigothic name Witiza, which may have been derived from the word Slavic vitez, which, contrary to some false statements, is genuinely Slavic in origin and has no connotation at all with the word "Viking "(and it seems that even this can be of Slavic origin as well).

    - The Slavs and the Goths also lived close to each other for some time; the latter used to form the majority or the entire population of a substantial amount of present-day Poland, especially in its central North, Northeast and East sectors, from the Vistula Delta in the North to Zamojszczyzna in the South.

    - In addition, there may be some words of Slavic origin in the Castilian language; For example, the Castilian word for "y" is almost identical to its Slavic counterparts (Polish: i), as is the word for "ojo" (Polish: oko).

    The Relevance of The Slavs in Muslim Medieval Spain

    - It should be added here that the Slavs in Muslim Spain also played a significant role in its academic and cultural life, which in the 10th and 11th centuries was at a very high level compared to the rest of the world.

    - They also quickly acquired a lot of wealth; Arab sources claim that many Slavs possessed palaces, lands and slaves.

    - They also actively participated in the intellectual life of Muslim Spain. In the last years of the Caliphate of Cordoba there were so many writers, poets and bibliophiles of Slavic origin that a need arose to write a separate monograph dedicated only to them, and written by a certain Slavic called Habib as-Siqlabi.

    Slavs vs Berbers in Muslim Medieval Spain



    - There was a lot of animosity between the Berber and Slavic components of the Caliphate's armies.

    - Al-Mansur (al-Manzor) brought large amounts of both "new" Berbers and Slavs to reinforce their armies in their many devastating campaigns against Catholic states in the North, and it seems that fierce competition between the two new groups just emerged Arrivals Perhaps these antagonisms began even before that time.

    - The Berbers, who made up the bulk of the ordinary troops of the armies of the caliphate, must surely have resented the preferential treatment and privileged status that the Slavs received from the caliphs and the Arab rulers in general.

    - During the first part of the period of taifa certain bursts of hatred from the Berbers towards the Slavs have been recorded. For example, after a Berber faction seized the Taifa state of Cordoba, the Slavs who lived there were quickly forced to abandon it and seek refuge in the states ruled by Slavs on the East coast (in this case, most likely in Almeria and Murcia, since these two were the closest), thus depopulating Córdoba de Eslavos, but, simultaneously, reinforcing the local Slavic element in the States that were already under Slavic domain.

    - Perhaps not all Slavs did that, however; a certain medieval Arab writer mentions a tradition according to which some Slavs, after losing a local civil war, were thrown into a cave near the settlement of Cabra, located near Córdoba. Perhaps this event precipitated the Slavic exodus from Cordoba.

    - Very surprisingly, the Berbers and the Slavs were similar from many points of view: both dominated the army and the administration, many of those among the military could not speak Arabic, their cultural levels were completely different from those of al-Andalus, they they often did not settle on the land, they strongly retained their distinct racial identities, and, at least until the beginning of the Taifa period, many did not become urban dwellers despite being camped near cities.

    BIBLIOGRAPHY

    Articles and Books


    —Atlas Historyczny Polski, edited by Wladyslaw Czaplinski and Tadeusz Ladogorski, Panstwowe Przedsiebiorstwo Wydawnictw Kartograficznych im. Eugeniusza Romera, 7th edition, Wroclaw, 1987.
    —Atlas Historyczny Swiata, editor in chief: Jozef Wolski, Panstwowe Przedsiebiorstwo Wydawnictw Kartograficznych im. Eugeniusza Romera, 2nd edition, Wroclaw, 1986.
    —Bowker, J. W., The Oxford Dictionary of World Religions, Oxford University Press, Oxford, New York, 1997.
    —Chejne, Anwar G., Muslim Spain. Its History and Culture, The University of Minnesota Press, Minneapolis, 1974.
    —Dupuy, E. R. and T. N. Dupuy, The Harper Encyclopedia of Military History. From 3500 B.C. to the Present, Harper Collins, 4th edition, New York, 1993.
    —Dzanty, D. and G. Verndaski, The Ossetian Tale of Iry Dada and Mstislav, Journal of American Folklore, vol. 69, 1956.
    —Dzieje Polski, edited by Jerzy Topolski, Panstwowe Wydawnictwo Naukowe, Warsaw, 1978.
    —Encyklopedia Popularna PWN, Panstwowe Wydawnictwo Naukowe, 16th edition, Warsaw, 1988.
    —Grajewski, Ireneusz and Jozef Wojcicki, Maly Leksykon Morski, Wydawnictwo MON, Warsaw, 1981.
    —Jackson, Gabriel, The Making of Medieval Spain, Thames and Hudson, London, 1972.
    —Johannesson, Jon, A History of the Old Icelandic Commonwealth; Islendinga Saga, University of Manitoba Press, 1974.
    —Lane-Poole, Stanley, (in collaboration with Arthur Gilman), Moors in Spain, Khayats, 2nd edition, Beirut, 1967.
    —Lewicki, Tadeusz, Osadnictwo Slowianskie and Niewolnicy Slowianscy w Krajach Muzulmanskich, Przeglad Historyczny, XLIII, 1952.
    —Lewicki, Tadeusz, Zrodla Arabskie do Dziejow Slowianszczyzny, vol. 1, Wydawnictwo Polskiej Akademii Nauk, Wroclaw - Krakow, 1956.
    —Lewicki, Tadeusz, Zrodla Arabskie do Dziejow Slowianszczyzny, vol. 2 (Part 1), Wydawnictwo Polskiej Akademii Nauk, Wroclaw - Warsaw - Krakow, 1969.
    —Lowmianski, Henryk, Poczatki Polski; Z Dziejow Slowian w I Tysiacleciu n.e., vols. 1-3, Panstwowe Wydawnictwo Naukowe, Warsaw, 1963-1967.
    —Nalepa, Jerzy, Slowianszczyzna Polnocno-Zachodnia. Podstawy Jej Jednosci and Jej Rozpad, Panstwowe Wydawnictwo Naukowe, Poznan, 1968.
    —Novakovic, Relja, Balticki Sloveni and Beogradu i Srbiji, Narodna Knjiga, Beograd, 1985.
    —Read, Jan, Moors in Spain and Portugal, Faber and Faber, London, 1974.
    —Ronart, Stephan and Nandy, Concise Encyclopaedia of Arabic Civilization, vol. 2 (The Arab West), Frederick A. Praeger Publishers Inc., New York, 1966.
    —Rybakov, Boris A., Early Centuries of Russian History, Progress Publishers, Moscow, 1965.
    "Shore, Thomas William, Origin of the Anglo-Saxon Race." A Study of the Settlement of England and the Tribal Origin of the Old English People, edited (posthumously) by his sons: T. W. Shore and L. E. Shore, Kennikat Press, 2nd edition, Port Washington New York, 1971.
    —The Cambridge Illustrated History of the Middle Ages, 950-1250, vol. 2, edited by Robert Fossier, Cambridge University Press, 1st English edition, Cambridge, 1997.
    —Vernadski, G., Problems of Ossetic and Russian Epos, American Slavic and East European Review, vol. 18, 1959.
    —Wachowski, Kazimierz, Slowianszczyzna Zachodnia, Instytut Zachodni, 2nd edition, Poznan, 1950.
    —Wasserstein, David, The Rise and Fall of the Party Kings; Politics and Society in Islamic Spain 1002-1086, Princeton University Press, Princeton New Jersey, 1985.
    —Watt, W. Montgomery, The Majesty that Was Islam. The Islamic World 661-1100, Sidgwick & Jackson, 2nd edition, London, 1976.

    Websites

    Malandia, Geoffrey, The Deeds of Count Roger of Calabria and Sicily and of Duke Robert Guiscard, his Brother.

    http://www.medievalsicily.com/Docs/0...%20revised.pdf

    "Slavs Among Norsemen in America and Iceland", http://michalw.narod.ru/index-Wyzdraw.html

    Http: //hr.metapedia.org/wiki/Vojskovo%C4%91e_Ameri

    http://michalw.narod.ru/SlavicSpain.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaditanian View Post
    Articles and Books[/B]

    —Atlas Historyczny Polski, edited by Wladyslaw Czaplinski and Tadeusz Ladogorski, Panstwowe Przedsiebiorstwo Wydawnictw Kartograficznych im. Eugeniusza Romera, 7th edition, Wroclaw, 1987.
    —Atlas Historyczny Swiata, editor in chief: Jozef Wolski, Panstwowe Przedsiebiorstwo Wydawnictw Kartograficznych im. Eugeniusza Romera, 2nd edition, Wroclaw, 1986.
    —Bowker, J. W., The Oxford Dictionary of World Religions, Oxford University Press, Oxford, New York, 1997.
    —Chejne, Anwar G., Muslim Spain. Its History and Culture, The University of Minnesota Press, Minneapolis, 1974.
    —Dupuy, E. R. and T. N. Dupuy, The Harper Encyclopedia of Military History. From 3500 B.C. to the Present, Harper Collins, 4th edition, New York, 1993.
    —Dzanty, D. and G. Verndaski, The Ossetian Tale of Iry Dada and Mstislav, Journal of American Folklore, vol. 69, 1956.
    —Dzieje Polski, edited by Jerzy Topolski, Panstwowe Wydawnictwo Naukowe, Warsaw, 1978.
    —Encyklopedia Popularna PWN, Panstwowe Wydawnictwo Naukowe, 16th edition, Warsaw, 1988.
    —Grajewski, Ireneusz and Jozef Wojcicki, Maly Leksykon Morski, Wydawnictwo MON, Warsaw, 1981.
    —Jackson, Gabriel, The Making of Medieval Spain, Thames and Hudson, London, 1972.
    —Johannesson, Jon, A History of the Old Icelandic Commonwealth; Islendinga Saga, University of Manitoba Press, 1974.
    —Lane-Poole, Stanley, (in collaboration with Arthur Gilman), Moors in Spain, Khayats, 2nd edition, Beirut, 1967.
    —Lewicki, Tadeusz, Osadnictwo Slowianskie and Niewolnicy Slowianscy w Krajach Muzulmanskich, Przeglad Historyczny, XLIII, 1952.
    —Lewicki, Tadeusz, Zrodla Arabskie do Dziejow Slowianszczyzny, vol. 1, Wydawnictwo Polskiej Akademii Nauk, Wroclaw - Krakow, 1956.
    —Lewicki, Tadeusz, Zrodla Arabskie do Dziejow Slowianszczyzny, vol. 2 (Part 1), Wydawnictwo Polskiej Akademii Nauk, Wroclaw - Warsaw - Krakow, 1969.
    —Lowmianski, Henryk, Poczatki Polski; Z Dziejow Slowian w I Tysiacleciu n.e., vols. 1-3, Panstwowe Wydawnictwo Naukowe, Warsaw, 1963-1967.
    —Nalepa, Jerzy, Slowianszczyzna Polnocno-Zachodnia. Podstawy Jej Jednosci and Jej Rozpad, Panstwowe Wydawnictwo Naukowe, Poznan, 1968.
    —Novakovic, Relja, Balticki Sloveni and Beogradu i Srbiji, Narodna Knjiga, Beograd, 1985.
    —Read, Jan, Moors in Spain and Portugal, Faber and Faber, London, 1974.
    —Ronart, Stephan and Nandy, Concise Encyclopaedia of Arabic Civilization, vol. 2 (The Arab West), Frederick A. Praeger Publishers Inc., New York, 1966.
    —Rybakov, Boris A., Early Centuries of Russian History, Progress Publishers, Moscow, 1965.
    "Shore, Thomas William, Origin of the Anglo-Saxon Race." A Study of the Settlement of England and the Tribal Origin of the Old English People, edited (posthumously) by his sons: T. W. Shore and L. E. Shore, Kennikat Press, 2nd edition, Port Washington New York, 1971.
    —The Cambridge Illustrated History of the Middle Ages, 950-1250, vol. 2, edited by Robert Fossier, Cambridge University Press, 1st English edition, Cambridge, 1997.
    —Vernadski, G., Problems of Ossetic and Russian Epos, American Slavic and East European Review, vol. 18, 1959.
    —Wachowski, Kazimierz, Slowianszczyzna Zachodnia, Instytut Zachodni, 2nd edition, Poznan, 1950.
    —Wasserstein, David, The Rise and Fall of the Party Kings; Politics and Society in Islamic Spain 1002-1086, Princeton University Press, Princeton New Jersey, 1985.
    —Watt, W. Montgomery, The Majesty that Was Islam. The Islamic World 661-1100, Sidgwick & Jackson, 2nd edition, London, 1976.

    Websites

    Malandia, Geoffrey, The Deeds of Count Roger of Calabria and Sicily and of Duke Robert Guiscard, his Brother.

    http://www.medievalsicily.com/Docs/0...%20revised.pdf

    "Slavs Among Norsemen in America and Iceland", http://michalw.narod.ru/index-Wyzdraw.html

    Http: //hr.metapedia.org/wiki/Vojskovo%C4%91e_Ameri

    http://michalw.narod.ru/SlavicSpain.html
    Hmm, you really read Polish historical books from '70 or articles form '50? How you get accesss to it? Very interesting

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    Senior Member Gaditanian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukasz View Post
    Hmm, you really read Polish historical books from '70 or articles form '50? How you get accesss to it? Very interesting
    Nope, sorry

    They are only some examples for reference, this information has been extracted from various web pages.

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    Nice thread OP. That may be how my subclade came to Iberia. Must be from the same male(it only takes one) and there are probably more descendants in Iberia.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Dick View Post
    Nice thread OP. That may be how my subclade came to Iberia. Must be from the same male(it only takes one) and there are probably more descendants in Iberia.

    Thanks !


    I was always interested in the birth of the first Slavic nations, and in one of those searches by chance, I began to find information that talked about the Slavs in Spain, that's why I decided to bring this discovery for TA users, because perhaps much of them didn't know.

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    More interesting would be were the muslim Moors who ruled in Spain during the Middle Ages Slavs themselves ?
    The Talmud tells us that the only language the Torah could be translated into elegantly is Greek.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mortimer View Post
    As teenager I considered greece "western" or "western europe" thats why I once lied to a nazi being a Greek.
    Because I thought he will like me more.

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    the vandals where not slavs, the germanic peoples ruled much of western and northern poland before the great serge of slavic migrations around the 700s

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    Yeah wtf, claiming that the Vandals were Slavs is pseudo-history.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dick View Post
    Nice thread OP. That may be how my subclade came to Iberia. Must be from the same male(it only takes one) and there are probably more descendants in Iberia.



    Your subclade has nothing to do with Slavs, those are Suebi descendants in Galicia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Feiichy View Post
    Your subclade has nothing to do with Slavs, those are Suebi descendants in Galicia.

    There is a third one but he lives in Colombia all three men have different surnames so this subclade must be from the same male unless I get a closer match with new snps in the future but I won’t hold my breath.

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