What does it mean to be Celt?

[Beorn]

Black Pool/Lake. We have a lot of these in our area.

The most famous Dubh Linn being ...

[Curtis24]

Coon was doing his best at the time. He had no mad agendas. He described a Keltic nordid racial type, and theorised that Celtic speech was brought to Britain by its representatives. Of course, these incomers didn't kill everyone already here, and other types of Briton survived and Celticised. And you get fellers like the Lindow Man. And ME!

Yes, but he didn't associate Celtic culture with all of the "Keltic" type, which probably should have been called "Central Nordic" or something like that, since it also included the Romans and the Franks.

He also pointed out that, while the Celts did mix somewhat with the people they conquered, the basic "Keltic type" was also preserved, and makes up a majority of the inhabitants of both Ireland and Britain, as well as minorities in other countries settled by the Celts.

What is your opinion about how right or wrong he was about the Celts? I"ve just started reading Coon...

[Osweo]

Yes, but he didn't associate Celtic culture with all of the "Keltic" type, which probably should have been called "Central Nordic" or something like that, since it also included the Romans and the Franks.

I reckon it was a great folly to name any type after an ethnicity, OR a geographical area. The confusions and idiocies that have grown out of this are quite depressing. By this token, even 'nordid' is erroneous. There are, after all, plenty of 'non-nordids' in the Nordic countries! I wish the names for types had been coined with more concern for descriptive matters and tendencies... 'dinaricised leptomorphs' would have sufficed, indeed...

He also pointed out that, while the Celts did mix somewhat with the people they conquered, the basic "Keltic type" was also preserved, and makes up a majority of the inhabitants of both Ireland and Britain, as well as minorities in other countries settled by the Celts.

I seriously question that.

What is your opinion about how right or wrong he was about the Celts? I"ve just started reading Coon...

I dunno about these phys. anth. matters, and am rather past caring. I'm more into the ethnology and linguistics side. I'll consult the 'measurers' once in a while, to see what my subjects may have looked like, but I can't keep track of all the theories.

[Stefan]

Coon did get many things right, even if some things like UPs being Neanderthal/Sapien intermediates, and the regionalism(opposed with Out of Africa) focus aren't the best ideas with today's knowledge. Back then it wasn't pseudoscience at all though, of course we've made many advancements. As for whether the Celts were Nordid, I doubt even with their inception Celts were of a unified type. Do remember also, according to Coon Nordids were Mediterranoids, so the Celtic type doesn't have to be strictly "Nordid" and distinguishable from other Aurignacid(Mediterranoids) in that aspect. Matter of fact, I find it hard for somebody to be able to distinguish a skull of dolicholeptoprosopic individuals from each other without the rest of the skeleton, to tell overall robustness, height, etc. Or at least not at 100% accuracy. Even then, I still find it harder to believe there weren't any UP individuals among the first Celts, considering how prevalent UP types are in Central Europe today, and if you were to make a connection with the British Isles.....

[Curtis24]

Well, I do find the physical anthropology interesting. Stefan, which of the phy. anth. would you find to be the most accurate?

[Stefan]

Well, I do find the physical anthropology interesting. Stefan, which of the phy. anth. would you find to be the most accurate?

Like with all sciences, no physical anthropologist seems to be 100% correct, especially as time passes and their works get outdated on the genetics side of things, yet nobody really cares to update the phenotypical distinctions within modern populations at sufficient amounts. My favorite typology, is that described by Deniker, who seems to describe Europe's phenotypical distribution very well.

[Curtis24]

EDIT: blah, this has gone horribly off-topic. thanks to everyone who contributed, I've learned some new stuff.

[lei.talk]

Originally Posted by Iberia Is that what you call accurate ?
Can we see his studies on the subject ? What skulls are you talking about ?

this post contains an url-link
to the requested text and images.

My favorite typology, is that described by Deniker,
who seems to describe Europe's phenotypical distribution very well.

[lei.talk]

I was talking about empirical facts such that Nordic people have more than 20 % of Hg I1
(Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark, etc)
you can see it from any source,
whereas celtic counries like Ireland don't have more than 7% of I1 , Wales has 6% of I1,
and It has more to do with the english settlements.

So, no, there is no evidence that Celts were Nordic.
Quite the contrary.

does this "Nordic paternal-DNA"
present in twenty per centum of the scandinavian population et caetera

(which is very similar to the nordic pheno-type distribution) :single arched eye-brow:

or are you saying that each of the scandinavians
possess twenty percent of this "Nordic paternal-DNA"?

because one makes no sense (mathematically)
and the other demonstrates nought regarding celts,

while illustrating a similarity
between the distribution of "Nordic paternal-DNA" and the nordic pheno-type.

additional reading
for the interested

[Ibericus]

does this "Nordic paternal-DNA"
present in twenty per centum of the scandinavian population et caetera

(which is very similar to the nordic pheno-type distribution) :single arched eye-brow:

or are you saying that each of the scandinavians
possess twenty percent of this "Nordic paternal-DNA"?

because one makes no sense (mathematically)
and the other demonstrates nought regarding celts,

while illustrating a similarity
between the distribution of "Nordic paternal-DNA" and the nordic pheno-type.

additional reading
for the interested

No, 20% of the people. Of course one cannot have 20% of a haplogroup this does not make any sense.
What I am saying is that if Celts were nordic, we would see a similar haplogroup distribution of nordic countries in the places were Celts mostly settled which is not the case. The places where mostly Celts settled are overwhlemingly R1b-P312 and have low levels of I1 (compared to nordic countries that is). But this presence of I1 in celtic countries is because of the english and Vikings.