Scytho-Turkic Z93 branch Z2125 vs. Indo-Aryan migration theory

[gültekin]

you're a fucking idiot.

and you statement is not true.

what the fuck makes you or anyone else think people who spoke the same language or same language family didn't fight each other?

don^t be so rude made

look this ^ to you like this script v

or like this v

[Pahli]

and your last statement is not true

what makes you or anyone else think people who spoke the same language or same language family didn't fight each other?


its a well known fact Sarmatian tribes fought Scythians and vice versa a they also fought against other neighbors, Greeks etc....
besides, this comes from the later era not the proto-Indo-European or Indo-Iranian period.

that's a little bit late in the time frame to be arguing for who the first Indo-Iranic or Indo-Europeans were.

the time you are talking about they had already settled and mixed with others, This stuff you show came from later.

you probably don't even know that the earliest kurgan burials came from south of the Caucasus and not even from the steppe or central asia, do you?

Yep. Even Turkic people fought eachother

[Kamal900]

And Tuscans fully score Anatolian Turkic. klingelt es? Etruskische Vorfahren der Albaner!

Turanist propaganda. The southern Italians do have some Anatolian input, but it is NOT a Turkic admixture but rather indigenous west Asian anatolians.

[Proto-Shaman]

Turanist propaganda. The southern Italians do have some Anatolian input, but it is NOT a Turkic admixture but rather indigenous west Asian anatolians.

If Turkic Turanists have no right to claim, so let the European Turanists decide

[Kamal900]

If Turkic Turanists have no right to claim, so let the European Turanists decide

There are no such thing as European "Turanists", and Turks are mostly genetically native. Deal with it. Turkic is just a linguistic definition, and most Turkic peoples around the globe have non-Turkic ancestries in their gene pools.

[Kamal900]

don^t be so rude made

look this ^ to you like this script v

or like this v

Scythians were Iranic, and they have nothing to do with Turkic peoples at all. Sarmatians, who are a sub-tribe of the Scythian race, fought among each other and to other peoples in the past. The Alans were the only surviving Sarmatians that weren't assimilated to the non-Iranic peoples, and the modern day Ossetians are descendants from their Alanic ancestors. Turkic script is descendent from the Sogdian script which in itself is descendant from the Aramaic script.

Here are some examples of the ossetians. Do they look Turkic to you?




"Overall, Ossetians are more distant from the other Indo-European-speaking populations from the Caucasus (Armenians; average Fst = 0.030) than from Caucasian-speaking populations (average Fst = 0.026), although these values are not significantly different (t = 1.430, p = 0.212). However, Ossetians are significantly closer to Iranian-speaking populations from Isfahan and Tehran (average Fst = 0.019) than to Caucasianspeaking populations (average Fst = 0.027; t = -2.564, p = 0.026). The same trend holds when we compare haplotype sharing between Ossetian and Iranian populations versus Ossetians and their closest geographic neighbors from the Caucasus. South Ossetians share just 4% of their mtDNA sequences with Georgians, whereas they share 12% and 19% of their mtDNA sequences with Iranian-speaking groups from Isfahan and Tehran respectively. The haplotype sharing between North Ossetians and Iranian groups varies from 13% to 31%. With Ingushians, their closest eastern geographic neighbours, North Ossetians share from 22% to 33% of their mtDNA sequences. With Kabardinians, their closest western geographic neighbours, North Ossetians share 26% to 54% of their mtDNA sequences. This relatively high percentage of shared haplotypes between North Ossetians and their closest geographic neighbours can be explained by recent gene exchange among these groups."

Excerpts from the "Results" section, "Y-SNP Haplogroups" subsection:

"Haplogroup E* (YAP) was found only in South Ossetians (Wells et al. 2001), and haplogroup C* (RPS4Y) was completely absent. The most frequent haplogroup among North Ossetians was G* (M201). Unfortunately, M201 was not typed in South Ossetians by Wells et al. (2001); therefore, it is impossible to distinguish between haplogroups G* (M201) and F* (M89) in this group: the latter is the most frequent haplogroup in South Ossetians. In our analyses these individuals were classified as haplogroup F* (M89), although some unknown proportion could be haplogroup G* (M201). We therefore classified all haplogroup G* (M201) North Ossetian individuals as haplogroup F* (M89) in order to be able to use Y-SNP data from South Ossetians for the MDS and Fst analyses. Haplogroup I* (M170) was found in substantial frequencies in groups from Digora and Ardon, whereas this haplogroup is absent from the rest of the groups. Haplogroup J2* (M172) was found in all groups, with frequencies ranging from 0.03 in the Digora group to 0.29 in the Ardon group. Haplogroup K* (M9) was found in all groups except for South Ossetians and the Digora group."

Exceprts from the "Discussion" section:

"The results are somewhat different for mtDNA vs. the Y-chromosome. North and South Ossetians do cluster somewhat in the MDS plot based on mtDNA (Fig. 2A), which may indicate a common origin. However, for the Y-chromosome, North Ossetians are more similar to other North Caucasian populations, and South Ossetians to other South Caucasian populations, than to each other. The SAMOVA analysis also identifies a boundary between South Ossetians and other groups for the Y chromosome, but not for mtDNA. Thus, there is no indication in the Y-chromosome of a particularly close genetic relationship between N. Ossetians and S. Ossetians. If they did have a common origin in the past, it has apparently become obscured by subsequent gene flow with their geographic neighbours on the same sides of the Caucasus Mountains. [...] Subsequent and largely male-mediated migrations between Ossetians and neighbouring groups in the North and South Caucasus, respectively, would explain the greater similarity between Ossetians and Caucasians for the Y-chromosome, as discussed previously. In conclusion, the genetic results are supported by the archaeological record, in that they reflect a common Iranian origin of South and North Ossetians, as well as a genetic footprint of ancient migrations in the North Caucasus that mostly involved male individuals."
Ivan Nasidze, D. Quinque, I. Dupanloup, S. Rychkov, O. Naumova, O. Zhukova, and Mark Stoneking. "Genetic evidence concerning the origins of South and North Ossetians." Annals of Human Genetics (November 2004) 68 (Part 6): pages 588-599.

[Proto-Shaman]

There are no such thing as European "Turanists", and Turks are mostly genetically native. Deal with it. Turkic is just a linguistic definition, and most Turkic peoples around the globe have non-Turkic ancestries in their gene pools.

Nobody really knows what Turkics really are. Ask Partizan for more info concerning Anatolian Turkics.

[Pennywise]

Scythians were Iranic, and they have nothing to do with Turkic peoples at all. Sarmatians, who are a sub-tribe of the Scythian race, fought among each other and to other peoples in the past. The Alans were the only surviving Sarmatians that weren't assimilated to the non-Iranic peoples, and the modern day Ossetians are descendants from their Alanic ancestors. Turkic script is descendent from the Sogdian script which in itself is descendant from the Aramaic script.

-Scythians weren't a race. You spent your years on anthro forums, read countless article about genetics and anthropology like a maniac to use against people on forums but still don't know the difference between ethnic and race. Besides, Scythians ethnically weren't even homogenic.

-Turkic scprit wasn't derived from Sogdian alphabet as a whole but influenced. Turkic script contains around 19 Turkic tamgas which were much older than all alphabetic systems.

-Showing some Ossetian peoples' photo and say "They look Turkic?" is idiotic. There is no stereotypical Turkic looking.

[Kamal900]

Nobody really knows what Turkics really are. Ask Partizan for more info concerning Anatolian Turkics.

Not for anthropologists and linguists. They can tell you that many of the Turkic peoples living in central asia and other places are descendant of pre-Turkic inhabitants like Iranic, Ugric and etc, and each Turkic people have dynamic amount of Mongoloid ancestry in their gene pool. Being Turkic like in any ethno-linguistic identity is mostly based on language and identity than based on race and genetics.

[Kamal900]

-Scythians weren't a race. You spent your years on anthro forums, read countless article about genetics and anthropology like a maniac to use against people on forums but still don't know the difference between ethnic and race. Besides, Scythians ethnically weren't even homogenic.

-Turkic scprit wasn't derived from Sogdian alphabet as a whole but influenced. Turkic script contains around 19 Turkic tamgas which were much older than all alphabetic systems.

-Showing some Ossetian peoples' photo and say "They look Turkic?" is idiotic. There is no stereotypical Turkic looking.

Thats idiotic beyond belief, and the oldest alphabet in existence was the Phoenician alphabet which all of the world's alphabets are descended from. When i said "race" i meant as a people or ethnicity. I agree that the scythians weren't homogenous racially or genetically, and i agree that the Scythians living in Siberia and East Asia had maternal east-Asian lineages like the Tocharians, BUT we know that the Scythians ARE Iranic, and they are predominately west Eurasian ancestry. As i told to Kipchack, being Turkic is not based on racial or genetic background, and its mostly a linguistic identity regardless of ancestry.