Eurogenes Biogeographic Ancestry Project

[Loki]

These genetic analyses challenge accepted stereotypes and beliefs. But genes don't lie. I think Polako has done an excellent job. What our genes reveal is definitely more accurate than our (lacking and incomplete) knowledge of history and people movements, and should help us to understand it more and fill in the gaps we are missing.

I don't find these results surprising at all.

Hm. Hmmm.

Lets not forget the F-Distances between the components.
North-European and North Atlantic are VERY closely "related".

"Northern European" and "North Atlantic" are undoubtedly closely related, but it's good work from Polako to separate them in order for us to understand more about, in this case, ancient Germanic settlements and in the genetic impact of the volkerwanderung.

Looking at the British isles alone, its really suggestive of

North Atlantic = Island Celts
North-European = Germanic peoples

But outside of the British Isles this crashes into some strange things:

It makes Germany apear more Celtic than Germanic. This IS imaginable, after all what is now Germany, had only the northern most 1/3 with Germanic tribes and the southern 2/3 Celts. And who knows how much Celts have been Germanized in the Germanic-Celtic wars, 3th-2th century BC.
The southern most third of the country was even not Germanic settled before AD times.

About Norway - do some of these high North Atlantic percentages not in a way explain the stereotype-challenging images Pallantides have been posting for so long? Not all Norwegians are tall blond Nordids.

Also looking at France in this run. Much more "Northern European" than "North Atlantic". The run before this run, Ireland centered "North Atlantic" had even be the leading component in France. But from run to run, the algorythm assignes the same alleles to different clusters.

I have always said France's Germanic influence has been downplayed. France has had loads of Germanic tribes settle there - it even got its name from one! Franks, Goths, Burgundians, Normans, and more. We shouldn't be surprised at all. The Frankish Empire was the strongest Germanic kingdom in Europe and dominated Europe for a long time.

As for some Americans showing very high NE - again, it shouldn't be a surprise. America had high numbers of immigration from all over Northern Europe, especially in the northern parts of the US, which is - in parts - almost exclusively Norwegian-German. If successive generations then pair with others who are similar, it yields this result.

By the way, isn't Diogenes Artemis even using White Utahns as the sample population for Europeans?

[Aino]

I had a Saami relative stop sharing with me because I revealed only his ancestry painting on a forum. Guess I shouldn't expect others to be as open as me with my results.(these days I ask premission before posting others ancestry information)

I would do the same thing. That is, stop sharing with anyone who posted my info without permission. And I have done that.

[d3cimat3d]

My results are strange, for example my North Atlantic score is 26.3% but my ancestry is around the European part of Black Sea. How can a easterner get such high North Atlantic?

If I had "26% North European" it would make more sense due to Varangians and what not, but I have 0%. Anyways I'm not criticizing it but it probably reflects some very ancient pre-Neolithic migrations or something.

[poiuytrewq0987]

My results are strange, for example my North Atlantic score is 26.3% but my ancestry is around the European part of Black Sea. How can a easterner get such high North Atlantic?

If I had "26% North European" it would make more sense due to Varangians and what not, but I have 0%. Anyways I'm not criticizing it but it probably reflects some very ancient pre-Neolithic migrations or something.

Maybe you're related to those Celts in Ukraine?

[d3cimat3d]

[IMG]
Maybe you're related to those Celts in Ukraine?

http://cadair.aber.ac.uk/dspace/bits...9D?sequence=12

^Looking at this Celtic place names map, it seems possible.

..But if I was really was Celtish I would have to have some "western European" to go along with the Atlantic, but I don't... I think it would all make perfect sense if my Atlantic was swapped for North European instead.. but my North Eurasian and South European scores were dead on, so I can't complain.

Anyways, I declare myself semi-Celtic from now on...

[Pallantides]

I would do the same thing. That is, stop sharing with anyone who posted my info without permission. And I have done that.

So you'd stop sharing with someone who said 'I have Finnish 5th cousin, their ancestry painting is 99%, 1% Asian'?


Some people have posted some of my 23andMe information in public without asking me first or putting my results up on various spreadsheets, If something happened to be to private(wich quite frankly is very little for me, when it come to my ancestry as I have nothing to hide) I'd ask them politly to remove it but I'll not act like an ass over it and I'll continue sharing with them as they will probably remember to ask next time.



The info I posted was hardly very revaling (Saami 5th cousin, ancestry precentages)

[Frederick]

There is room for more than one opinion here.

Well, thats a "German" trait in me. I am the owner of the ultimative truth.

[Frederick]

I appretice what Polako does.

But lets say, for matching language groups, we had better runs than this one.
On the other hand, it was Intra-Northern European. And it used random SNP instead of selected ones.

It reproduced Romance, Germanic and Balto-Slavic language groups almost perfect, I was amazed.

It looked like this:
(I used a different style to make the maps back then. But it was like this, that all language groups shared one "leading cluster".
The try to make this stabile and repeatable, by the use of dummies for the components, led to the components strongly bleed out into the surounding terretories (the component that apeared to be the lead component in Germanic speaking countries, doubled, sometimes trippled in the far way regions)

Wlel, it looked like this:

[Hussar]

My results are strange, for example my North Atlantic score is 26.3% but my ancestry is around the European part of Black Sea. How can a easterner get such high North Atlantic?

I had the same curiousity once i had seen my results. My north-atlantic component is almost 42% ; ok, i'm from a western sector of European continent and i can't compare my case with yours, but still i'm quite distant from the (supposed) cradle of N-A in the british isles.
Looks like this "north-atlantic" is the revelation of this plot. But it's obvious we will see a long serie of progresses and little revolutions of intepretation.

Anyway.....for the moment, seems that the "celts" have travelled through Europe more than the bravest germanic horde

[Pallantides]

Scandinavian Eurogenes participants EU7b scores, from highest to lowest.

Southeast Baltic:

SE9 - 32.37
SE12 - 26.18
SE16 - 22.94
SE4 - 19.34
SE7 - 18.83
NO7 - 18.12
SE11 - 16.53
SE2 - 16.33
SE5 - 15.83
NO6 - 15.48
SE1 - 15.47
SE14 - 14.06
NO8 - 13.45
NO2 - 13.39
NO10 - 13.08
SE10 - 13.06
SE13 - 12.73
SE6 - 12.05
NO5 - 11.76
DK4 - 11.16
SENO1 - 9.73
SE15 - 9.28
NO3 - 7.93
DK3 - 7.79
NO9 - 7.29
DK2 - 6.46
SENO2 - 6.45
SE8 - 5.25
NO4 - 5.01

Northern European:

SENO2 - 92.1
SE5 - 83.15
DK2 - 81.95
SE4 - 80.49
SE8 - 75.99
SE10 - 71.97
SENO1 - 71.92
SE1 - 64.38
NO3 - 62.28
NO10 - 61.86
SE14 - 58.59
SE6 - 56.63
NO4 - 56.55
SE11 - 56.55
NO8 - 52.52
NO6 - 49.24
DK3 - 44.53
SE7 - 44.44
SE9 - 41.84
NO9 - 41.39
SE15 - 37.34
SE16 - 34.17
SE13 - 32.43
NO5 - 27.13
NO2 - 16.7
SE12 - 15.13
DK4 - 6.56
SE2 - 5.49
NO7 - 1.18

North Atlantic:


NO7 - 76.21
SE2 - 73.71
DK4 - 70.1
NO2 - 69.0
NO5 - 56.53
SE12 - 56.25
SE13 - 51.49
NO9 - 45.15
SE15 - 41.69
NO4 - 37.22
SE16 - 34.83
NO8 - 33.1
NO6 - 32.66
NO3 - 28.93
SE6 - 27.24
DK3 - 26.68
SE7 - 26.32
SE9 - 24.99
NO10 - 24.91
SE14 - 22.76
SE11 - 18.85
SE8 - 18.45
SENO1 - 17.8
SE1 - 14.88
SE10 - 14.75
DK2 - 4.51
SENO2 - 0.0
SE4 - 0.0
SE5 - 0.0

East and/or North Eurasian:

SE16 - 4.22
SE7 - 2.81
SE2 - 1.68
NO7 - 1.63
SE12 - 1.27
SE5 - 1.0
NO4 - 0.98
NO6 - 0.94
NO8 - 0.91
NO2 - 0.88
NO3 - 0.83
SE9 - 0.78
SENO2 - 0.66
NO5 - 0.59
SENO1 - 0.53
SE8 - 0.30
SE10 - 0.19
SE4 - 0.15
SE13 - 0.13
NO10 - 0.13
DK3 - 0.03
NO9 - 0.01
DK2 - 0.0
DK4 - 0.0
SE1 - 0.0
SE6 - 0.0
SE11 - 0.0
SE14 - 0.0
SE15 - 0.0

Sub-Saharan African:

All zero

Southern European:

DK4 - 12.16
SE1 - 5.25
SE6 - 4.06
SE12 - 3.19
SE2 - 2.77
SE15 - 1.21
NO6 - 1.0
NO4 - 0.21
DK2 - 0.2
SE16 - 0.15
DK3 - 0.0
NO2 - 0.0
NO3 - 0.0
NO5 - 0.0
NO7 - 0.0
NO8 - 0.0
NO9 - 0.0
NO10 - 0.0
SENO1 - 0.0
SENO2 - 0.0
SE4 - 0.0
SE5 - 0.0
SE7 - 0.0
SE8 - 0.0
SE9 - 0.0
SE10 - 0.0
SE11 - 0.0
SE12 - 0.0
SE14 - 0.0

Western European:

DK3 - 20.62
SE15 - 10.45
SE11 - 8.05
SE7 - 7.57
DK2 - 6.86
NO9 - 6.13
SE14 - 4.56
NO5 - 3.86
SE16 - 3.66
NO7 - 2.83
SE12 - 1.14
SENO2 - 0.77
NO6 - 0.65
DK4 - 0.0
NO2 - 0.0
NO3 - 0.0
NO4 - 0.0
NO8 - 0.0
NO10 - 0.0
SENO1 - 0.0
SE1 - 0.0
SE2 - 0.0
SE4 - 0.0
SE5 - 0.0
SE6 - 0.0
SE8 - 0.0
SE9 - 0.0
SE10 - 0.0
SE13 - 0.0