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Thread: The Ethnicity of the Ancient Macedonians

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laberia View Post
    Hellenism and the making of Modern Greece

    Antonis Liakos (Athens)

    Learning to be Greeks through the appropriation of historical time, language identity and space symbolism


    3. Revivalism





    Greek historiography is a product of the Greek national state. During the foundation of the new state the constitutive myth was the resurrection of the mythical phoenix. Its significance was that Greece resurrected itself, like the mythical Phoenix, after having been under the subjugation of the Macedonians, the Romans, the Byzantines, and the Turks. The first rector of the University of Athens in 1837, Constantine Schinas, referred to the metaphor of an enslaved Greece handed over by the Macedonians to the Romans and then by the Byzantines to the Turks. That was the first official imagination of Greek history in the aftermath of the war of liberation in 1821. As a consequence, the primary period that was incorporated into the national feeling of history was the period of classical Antiquity. The appropriation of this period was established during the period of the Enlightenment’s influence on Greece, in the fifty years or so before the Greek revolution, and, though not without disagreement or reservation from the post-Byzantine tradition of the Orthodox Church, it proved quite strong so to prevail in the national consciousness of Modern Greeks. Yet, in contrast to most young nations which were expected to construct their own self-image, the myth of Ancient Greece was also powerful outside the Greek-speaking society of the Ottoman Empire. Modern Greeks acquired a passport, without much pain, compare for instance to Balkan neighbours or other new-born nations, to introduce themselves to Europe and the world.
    4. Continuity





    During the first decades of Greek independence, the initial present-past relationship was composed of two alternative poles: the national resurrection (the 1821 Revolution and the formation of the Greek state) and Classical Antiquity. The myth of the reborn Phoenix, however, was too weak to sustain a national ideology, especially since it involved an immense time gap. Moreover, it excluded an important part of present experience, the religious one. The blank pages of Greek history became visible in the middle of the 19th century. In 1852, the historian, Spyridon Zambelios, pointed out, “We only hope that all those scattered and torn pieces of our history will be articulated and acquired completeness and unity”. Filling these gaps meant furnishing criteria and signification in order to appropriate different periods such as the Macedonian domination of Greece, the Hellenistic and Roman period, the Byzantine era, along with the Venetian and Ottoman rule.
    The filling of these gaps was the task of Greek historiography during the second half of nineteenth century. The incorporation into the national narrative of the periods that would contribute to the making of national history took place in stages which endures more than three generations of historians, from Koraes to Paparrigopoulos and then to Lambros, and not without objection and cultural debate. The timing of each temporal incorporation was a function of a relationship between the Greek and western European historiography. For example, the appropriation of the Macedonian and Hellenistic periods, through the concept of national supremacy, was facilitated by the disjuncture of the concept of civic freedom from classical Greece.
    6. National genealogy



    The constitution of the “unity” of Greek history also created its narrative form. The innovation in Paparrigopulos’ work lies in the fact that it reifies Greek history, and organizes it around a main character, giving a different meaning to each period. He introduced the terms First Hellenism, Macedonian Hellenism, Christian Hellenism, Medieval Hellenism, Modern Hellenism. The first Hellenism was ancient Hellenism, i.e. the classical Hellenism that declined after the Peloponnesian Wars. It was succeeded by Macedonian Hellenism, which was actually “a slight transformation of the first Hellenism.” This one was followed by Christian Hellenism, which was later replaced by Medieval Hellenism, which brought Modern Hellenism to life in the 13th century.

    The specific features that differentiate or rather give substance to each Hellenism are formed according to the historical order prescribed by Divine Providence, in other words, the mission or the final aim. These orders are related to the nation’s contribution to world history or that expected in the future. Paparrigopoulos has constructed a teleological core of the Greek national history with long term consequences.

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    Quote Originally Posted by El Litvino View Post
    I guess Macedonians vs. Greeks were like Czechs vs. Poles.

    "Almost" the same (both are West Slavs) but not exactly!
    No, Greeks are not slavs, this is totally wrong. They have assimilated slavs but they are not slavs.
    Meanwhile the modern Macedonians are slavs, nothing to do with the Ancient Macedonians.

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    It was just a comparison...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laberia View Post
    No, Greeks are not slavs, this is totally wrong. They have assimilated slavs but they are not slavs.
    Meanwhile the modern Macedonians are slavs, nothing to do with the Ancient Macedonians.
    So just because they speak Slavic language they are Slav?

    Well good for me then, I am then German, Slavic, Latin soon I'll become Greek when I finish my Greek lessons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bosniensis View Post
    So just because they speak Slavic language they are Slav?

    Well good for me then, I am then German, Slavic, Latin soon I'll become Greek when I finish my Greek lessons.
    Excuse me but i am tired of all these pseudo-scientific discussions about genetics. Now we have to take seriously your theories about your ....nose. God, change the name of your country and nation and call it for example Noseland.

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    Quote Originally Posted by El Litvino View Post
    It was just a comparison...
    It`s also an theory made in Russia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bosniensis View Post
    So just because they speak Slavic language they are Slav?

    Well good for me then, I am then German, Slavic, Latin soon I'll become Greek when I finish my Greek lessons.
    Come on man, we are Slavs, we are communists, we belong to Russiaaaa...

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    I believe Ancient Macedonian was in between NW Greek and Phrygian.

    Among modern languages, Modern Greek is the most Macedonian one.

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    Can you understand that even if ancient Macedonians were not Greeks (they were, according to all latest accurate sources), your country is not located in what was ancient macedonia, and so you can't claim anything in common with them?

    You live in what back then was paionia, a completely alien tribe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Laberia View Post
    *look at this smart quote i posted for the 3rd time i am so smart right*
    Another stupid post that you fail to understand. The quote isn't witty or offensive, what he's saying is actually pretty smart, you just need to pull your head out of your ass and think. He's just referring to an independent Greece only existing in classical antiquity and post 1820 Greece, because 'Greece' was merely just multiple re-branded empires in between (excluding Ottoman of course).

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