Arpad dynasty DNA (kings of Hungary & Croatia)

[chyyris]

Not only Slavs were in history I2a. What about Bastarns?

I think that Bastarn or Gothic origin of I2-CTS10228 is nor real.
That is a propaganda which spread some pseuodo-geneticists.

[Proto-Shaman]

No, read again.

R2 still in India.

[Proto-Shaman]

There's no proof of any Aryan invasion of India and even if there was they were already heavily mixed with South Asian DNA. Do no forget to get to India they must first go through Afghanistan who are a West Asian population with some ASI admixture.

Many R1a-z93 Indians in return spread their DNA to Europe and middle east.

Don't forget that Aryan R1a = Turkic

[chyyris]

Don't forget that Aryan R1a = Turkic

Z93 is turkified, it's Indo-Iranian marker originally.

[Proto-Shaman]

R1b1b1a Hungarian aristocrats from the early 10th century Karos-Eperjesszög cemetery:

Rich burial with partial horse burials (Andronovo origin tratition between the Ugrics):


Rich Magyar horsemen:

These are Turkic faces you delusional thickhead. I am sure they had U152 and L23 SNP's!

[Proto-Shaman]

A burial mask (Finno-Ugric tradition in Europe):


The burial mask tradition in Eurasia:

Holy shit are you actually fucking serious?

Kyrgyz Turkic:


Hun Turkic, East Turkestan:


Ancient Mycenaen & Greek:





"The great walls of Mycenae, however, were traditionally said to have been built by a "round-faced" people from Lycia, and the art of the treasures there found is similar to that of the Turanians of Asia Minor, [...]." (Claude Reignier Conder, The rise of man, E. P. Dutton, 1908, p.103)

"[...] that in Greece also there was an original substratum of Turanian (Pelasgian) races, which erected the megalithic polygonal masonry of the walls of the ancient cities, and the so-called tombs, or treasuries, of Mycene and Orchomenus.” (Jared Sparks, Making of America Project, Edward Everett, James Russell Lowell, Henry Cabot Lodge, The North American review, University of Northern Iowa, 1870, p.90)

"The archeological findings represent proofs that the Etruscans, Mycenaean and Scythian influences were almost equally strong. These three (supposedly all) Ural Altaic ethno-lingual waves were quite similar in characteristics, [...]. The newest archeological findings seem to prove that the Etruscans were non- Indo-European, but Turanian, or Ural-Altaic peoples." (Endre Haraszti, The ethnic history of Transylvania, Danubian Press, 1971, p.8)

“The Pelasgians, the inhabitants of Greece from neolithic times, developed the Minoan and Mycenaean culture.” (A Companion to Greek Studies, Cambridge University Press Archive, 1931, p.25)

"Nachdem das griechische Festland bis etwa 2200 v. Chr. noch von nicht-griechischen, ja nicht-indoeuropäischen Elementen besiedelt war, also auch Früh-Hell. I und II einen nicht-griechischen Charakter trug, drangen in Früh-Hell. III und Mittel-Hell. I 2200/1900 v. Chr. Einwanderer in Hellas ein, die wir sprachlich als die Vorfahren der mykenischen Griechen und damit der "Achäer" ... ansehen dürfen. Sie vermischten sich mit den bodenständigen vorgriechischen Elementen und nahmen qualifizierten Ackerbau wie das Wohnen in Kleinstädten an." (Prof. Fritz Schachermeyr, in: Lexikon der Antike, Vol. 3, München 1979, p1506)

Don't try to portray your OGHUR TURK ancestors as Finnish

[Proto-Shaman]

Z93 is turkified, it's Indo-Iranian marker originally.

Where did it get turkified, on Mars? I am sure.

[Stears]

I love this level of denial, in the fact that it is so simple to dispute. Allow me to yet again remind you about all of our similarities:


All of the names of our leaders were Turkic before we became Catholic. We followed Tengrism while on the steppes together. Our alphabet is directly derived from Old Turkic as a child system. We have many Turkic words that are as old as the language and our ancient lifestyle itself. We lived in yurts and fought on horseback with the same tactics. Our government structure directly followed the Turkic model. We lived together in Central Asia for hundreds of years. Fellow Turkic peoples like the Avars, Cumans, Pechenegs, etc, settled in Hungary. We celebrate our common culture and brotherhood today, with Kurultaj.

Wrong. As Blogen pointed out it is not true, that they had turkic name.


Catholic is a religion and not an ethnoliguistic category like Turkic. Hungarians had many religions, not only your cumanian tengrist fantasy. There was no goverment structure, but power structure that time. Japan adopted anglo-saxon type of goverment after the revolution of the Emperor, it did noit make them Anglo-Saxons. Byzantine Empire adopted Persian public administration, but it did not make them Persians. Horse archery (a very timid and feminin way of fighting) is not turkic invention, turkic people adopted the horse and horse archery from non-turkic white steppe cultures. Adopting a military strategy and weapons did not change your ethnicity. Just because Arabs and Russians adopted the tanks (an anglo-saxon invention) and airplanes (american invention) so they became anglo-saxons according to your logic. Pechenegs and Cumans were and remained mortal enemies, they were not welcommed in Hungary, they lived in reserve areas, and the conflicts between Hungarians and these immigrants were very hostile. Cuman migrants regressed drastically the economic and societal development of the area where they settled. Fortunatelly, they were exterminated during the great Turkish wars.

Oh, and incase you did not read about the study in this thread...


"Thus, most of the population in the Carpathian Basin originated from the Hun-Turkic cultural community of the Eurasian Steppe and was accompanied by Slavonic and German-speaking groups."


https://link.springer.com/article/10...520-018-0609-7

These physicians had not clue about history, which is not wonder, because they are not historians. The most laughable thing: they still believe in funny Hunnic origin theories )))




Bálint Csanád, the most important archeologist and historian took these Hun-believer physicians into thewir place, and he pointed out their ridiculous Hunnic fantasies.
Read about it:
http://hvg.hu/tudomany/20170928_bali...oltak_reagalas

You see, the more science freely researches, the more evidence it gives to our Turkic past, which is not even disputed, but rather how much % of it is Turkic. Even you, who would once feverishly deny any Turkic relations, now say "it was not as much as you think", because even you cannot logically deny the overwhelming evidence. You are too smart to ignore how silly it makes you look to deny it all outright, so you try to obscure it and minimize it, and maybe try some insults if things do not go well. That is OK; it is how most humans debate when they begin to run into a wall or their ideology begins to fail. You will become more comfortable with your own Turkicness over time.

The biggest problem of your turkic fantasy, that Eastern Slavs like Russians, the Serbians Romanians Ukrainians still have more genetic relationship with oriental people than Hungarians. According to your logic, they are Turanian übermensch because of their DNA......
Despite Slavic ethnic groups come from the steppe, they don't claim other former ethnic groups herritage, like Huns Scythians , and they don't believe in turkic origin theories, despite some of them have steppe markers, unlike the Hungarian population.

Not all scholars are stupid, not all scholars are smart. Also they all have bias in some way; it is why outside researchers take part in order to minimize this bias for or against. But note how when foreign academics state positive findings about our Turkic past, your aggression shows and you dismiss it because they are not Hungarians or are "uneducated". I also love how you accuse me of stating a "straw man" when you list four of them yourself, even blaming "the Jews" for Hungarian Turanism lolol. If many Jewish scholars supported your evermore restrictive identity of "Hungarian-ness", I believe you would change your song.

„you dismiss it because they are not Hungarians or are "uneducated".
It doesn't matter in scientific and scholarly questions, that somebody has Hungarian ethnic origin or not, however the level of personal education, and especially special knowledge on the field of the debate is determinant, it is everything.


You are wrong. Jewish orientalists had not minor, but major role in Hungarian turanism. Most orientalist were de-facto Jews in Hungary before the WW1. There are no academic historian or linguist who see any relationship in the origin of Hungarian language and culture anymore.
There were a strong political interest in Hungarian-Jewish Turanism during the era of dualism.

Ironically, those in the West further poison their historical criticism about Turanism with the idea that it is an almost far-right or proto-fascist ideal (lololol) on places such as the Wikipedia dumpster or in an occasional not-sourced and obscure opinion article, but then there are those like yourself who claim that it is a Jewish ploy and that it originates in the left-wing historical circles of the nation. You cannot make this insane bias on each side up if you tried, haha! Well, I guess you can, if you are trying to discredit an identity and are speaking to an uninformed public.

Wrong. Turanism as a political ideology had many stages.
1st stage : Until the first half of the 19th century Hungarian orientalists believed that the Persian language and Iranian people are the closest relatives of Hungarian language and Hungarian people, while the Turkic relationship was not really tolerated and accepted by them. (The early Hungarian Turanism considered the Iranic languages as part of the Turanian languages.) This attitude changed only after the fall of Hungarian revolution and War of Independence (1848-1849), because the Ottoman government gave asylum for many of the leaders of the Hungarian revolution, this diplomatic act gave a rocketing popularity for Turkey and Turkish people in Hungary. [15]


2. stage Post 1849 era : Turks and turkic people became acceptable „relatives” its era finished with the ugric-turkic war of linguists.
3. Stage Freom the Ugric-turkic linguistic war to the WW1. It ended the Finno-ugric victory in international and national level. Almost all turanist accepted that Hungarian is a finno-ugric language and Hungarians came from the Urals. Turkic theory (and other fantasy grous like the „altaic people” were accepted only as a very very distant relative under the umbrella of Ural-altaic theory. If there are ural-altaic people, than there must be an ural-altaic race too. The ural-altaic theory was manifested in the creation of Turanid race.
4. The Traumatic Turanism after Treaty of Trianon.
The west „betrayed us”
It had only political results, but nothing changed about the theories of origin of Hungarians since the third stage.
5th Post WW2 era, the turkicization of Hungarian past has begun by amateurs. Amateur uneducated self-appointed shaman scholars started to invent the Sumerian Parthian theories and mixed with the older Hunnic and Turkic theories. From the 1960s the Ural-Altaic theory was not accepted anymore, even the existence altaic group was questioned by scholars.
6th phase from 1970: The anti-finno-ugrian turanism was born. You belong to this modern stage of turanism. This was the first time when finno-ugric relationhip was questioned by turanists.

So, "neo-Cuman days" as you call it, with the idea of Turkifying Hungary from the inside, that is not a conspiracy, but discussing various bias in academia or in history is a conspiracy? Do you understand how that sounds?
Neo Cumans and neo-cuman identity exist in Cumania Kunság region, despite the real cumans were exterminated during the long Turkish war. Why do you try to deny it?
We have talked about this already. I disagree with you, that all of the Cumans were killed to the very last man, woman and child. Also, allow me to entertain you. Really. Let us pretend that every Cuman was exterminated from the planet during this time. It does not change anything about our own Turkic past before our settlement. It also does not change the genetic imprint they had on various areas of Hungary. Or do you think that Cumans and Hungarians never shared the same tent on some occasions? lol

Huge controversy: „Let us pretend that every Cuman was exterminated from the planet” „our own Turkic past before our settlement. „
Yes it changes, because you neo-cumanians live in an ideological ghetto, in a bubble of sub-culture, a small parallel universe, where the word „turkic” has positive meaning, until the general Hungarian population, the average Hungarians don't really make difference between gysies and Central Asians.
It Change because many of you try to project this local feeling and parallel universe to a whole country and a whole nation. It is not conspiracy, but ignoracy in history.

Regardless, your statements about Cumans (inaccurate) are just a distraction tactic. At Kurultaj, there are no "Cuman" flags, but only fellow Turkic and Magyar flags from the past and present day. Or maybe they are trying to supplant us? But wait, they are not even "Cumans", but a mix of confused/ignorant/conspiring Hungarians/Romanians or whatever else you feel like including in their genetics at the time. Honestly, you can rage against "Cumans" all you'd like, it doesn't change our own Turkic past.

There are no cuman flags in Hungary, and you forget that your traditional eastern european neo-cuman culture had no ties with the Central European Hungarians, you are just Hungarian speaker balkanites, a slided out and protruded Balkan on the body of Hungary and Hungarian culture.

However you can see on all internationalEnglish language forums video portals, that anti-Hungarian Serbians Romanians Slovaks always support the turanist lunatic believers. Because they know its magic to discredit Hungarians in Europe (Like in the era of Trianon, when Benes and the little-Entente used it successfully against Hungarians.
This is the actual dangerous idea. Nobody takes those comments seriously, but your idea of discarding the truth about our origins is what gives us zero credibility to the land we have in Europe.

Nobody takes it seriously? Why? Because your speudo-scientific turan fantasy proved to be very dangerous and effective tool in the hands of little Entente leaders?

To you, we are all basically Germans speaking a non-Germanic language. Remember when I asked you "what is a Hungarian?" and your answer excluded about 90% of the country? What do you think will happen to all those non-Transdubanian Magyars and their territory? But maybe you do not care, as they are not "real Hungarians".

Fortunatelly you are wrong, Neo-Cumans are small minority of the country, even with the mixed dowtown areas of Budapest you are very far from the majority.

It is sad, as you are Székely as well so you claim. This embodies even more Turkic tradition in both fact and myth, and you discard it to bend and scrape for the safety of the West that doesn't even give a shit about you. Hungarians are a wall against invaders for centuries, we are the bastion that takes every sling and arrow and we have nothing. No country has tried to be more "European" than us, with so little to show for it. You are not stupid, you know how we are portrayed in the west today, and it has nothing to do with "Turanism" but rather our lack of "European values". When will you stop kissing the hand that smacks your face? We don't live in the time of Adolf Hitler where being the "whitest" person means something like the difference between going to a gas chamber or not. Our unique culture and origin, which only offers us a precious place of refuge and spirit, is somehow bad? These stupid semantics about Orthodox or "balloon heads" is cute and fun until the EU comes knocking on our door for the kilo of flesh it demands from the "big bad Hungarians" who are so "backward" in every century.

Wrong again. As Blogen pointed out there is no proof for Turkic origin of Székelys, their dialects have Western Hungarian origin fro Transdanubia, and they had the smallest ammount of turkic substratum.
The racial superiority and cultural superiority of white people over non-white (negroid mongoloid etc...) was not born in the days of Adolf Hitler, it was born in the 15th century in the era of great dicoveries. It based on MERIT SYSTEM, where nations races were compared in contribution in innovations and inventions, scientific, economic, cultral development, infrastructure and level of civiliazation. And be sure that your Central Asian Turkic people were on black African (negro) level in this MERIT SYSTEM. You can't even name a single relevant turkic invention, which was not adopted but invented by Turkic people.

Nobody is saying to hate the last 1000 years; we rise up time and time again and refuse to be "taken" quietly into the darkness. Take your honor being descended of the border guards, and how we stood alone and still stand alone today in the face of EU disdain. Your unhealthy sprint towards westernization would make us the losers in this game of EU assimilation, just like it would have during the Hapsburg monarchy. Does Trianon hurt? Of course it hurts. But it is just soil, and the nation is the people who are Hungarians, and I do not believe in magical soil. Just like the times of old, the Hungarian nation is wherever our tents find a place to be set on this green earth. Such a unique history we have in this world. For the love of everything Hungarian, stand up for it with pride.

Why do you try to mix 21th century EU politics with the genetic or linguistic origin of Hungarians?


I will answer to you offtopic comment too.
"No nation has friends only interests”
This saying remained an eternal truth in all periods of history.


The „Eastern Turn” of Jobbik and Fidesz was an economic disaster, nobody can form any profitable working political economic alliance with backward landlocked Central Asian countries or Eastern Asia thousands and thousands of miles away from Central Europe. The Eastern turn was a disaster for Hungarian economic diplomacy, because Western economic powers already had very strong ties with Eastern countries since they made their „Eastern turn” economic policy many decades before Hungary. And we couldn't compete with industry and economics of big western countries on this markets. There are no friendship in business, it is also an eternal truth.

"It grows larger every year"
When I make an argument about the number of people who show up, it is not to prove "it is right", it is to counter your claims that it is "small and not significant". You are again, ascribing a point that I am not making.
And how much people have university degree in the cumanian turan days? 1%? 0.5%? ))) Typical.
...and here I thought that you were learning your logical fallacies? Here, a wikipedia link (that people seem to love to source from so much lol) about the fallacy you just committed:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority

You must also read the Argument from Authroity, here: https://a.te.ervelesi.hibad.hu/tekintelyre-hivatkozas
because it is about the opinion of non-expert not scientist authority. For example: a famous monarch's or religious leaders quotes and opinion in scientific debate. Or a famous physicist opinion on literature.
tekintélyre hivatkozás
Mit tettél?
Azt mondtad, hogy egy állítás igaz/hamis, mert egy vagy több elismert vagy magas rangú személy vagy társaság ezt mondta.
Miért hibás az érvelésed?
Egy elismert tekintély véleménye önmagában nem bizonyíték egy állítás helyessége vagy helytelensége mellett, nem utolsó sorban azért, mert az elismert személy vagy szervezet is tévedhet: alakíthat ki álláspontot téves vagy hiányos adatok alapján ill. helytelen következtetések mentén. Ugyanakkor érdemes megjegyezni, hogy ez az érvelés nem fordítható a visszájára, azaz például egy szaktekintély állítása egy laikuséval szemben nem vonható kétségbe pusztán azon az alapon, hogy a szaktekintély is tévedhet.

But yes, as usual, I will entertain this from you as well. When you begin your own event "Stears True Magyar Days", you can admit only those who have multiple degrees, so you can brag to me that 100% of those who attend have academic credits. What will you all do there? Make online accounts and post about how much you don't like craftsmen? lol, very productive for our culture. Kurultaj is a growing experience in all facets: athletics, academics, spirituality and culture. But most importantly, with our international Turkic family to strengthen awareness of our roots.


Which brings me to this statement from you...
This international turkic brotherhood of Gábor Vona reminds me the Jobbik's version of internationalism. Turanism: They way from proletarian internationalism to turkic internationalism.
Turkic internationalism has nothing to do about communist economics, but economic improvement in general. Even historically and to this very day, the Hungarian Turanism Organization was only focused on the following:


"Turáni Társaság célja az egész turánság, vagyis a magyar nemzet és a velünk rokon többi európai és ázsiai népek kulturális és gazdasági előrehaladása, tömörülése, erősödése, úgymint az ázsiai kontinens földrajzi, néprajzi, gazdasági stb. kutatása múltban és jelenben. Politikai és felekezeti kérdések kizártak. Céljait a nem turáni népekkel egyetértve óhajtja elérni."


"The goal of Turanian Society is the cultural and economic progress, confederation, flourishment of all Turanians, i.e. the Hungarian nation and all kindred European and Asian nations, furthermore the geographical, ethnographical, economical etc. research of the Asian continent, past and present. Political and religious issues are excluded. It wishes to accomplish its objectives in agreement with non-Turanian nations."


But even your traditional turanists considered the turkic people very very distant relatives, and their main concern was the finno-ugric theory.




You do not represent or refute these statements in good faith, because you do not wish to be associated with these peoples. To an extent, that's fine. Nobody will chain you to a horse and take you to Kurultaj to have fun enjoying the day. You should be free to associate and disassociate as you please. But you're misrepresenting the entire idea, and that is the issue. It is also very noticeable and only hurts your "argument", though it changes frequently.

I already refuted them in the previous comments ( ecoonomically politically and scientifically.)

I speak about horses in general. 90% of peasants did not have Horses in Hungary,because horses were expensive that's why peasants used oxen to plow before the early 20th century.
You are again, cleverly attempting to blur the topic. Horses are valuable for transportation and combat. You do not see our ancestors riding oxen into battle or for transportation. Oxen do not need training and are stocky and strong, so they are much better plowing than horses, usually. The larger horses would come in time to be used in combat as our tactics became western. Your own lack of Hungarian equestrianism knowledge might be showing, because you would know that there are different horses for different roles in combat and field work. We used lighter, more agile horses in order to skirmish and for horse archery, while the west used a larger, muscular horse, the "destrier", for their military tactics because their offensive charge was based on the knight and heavy cavalry. It was not until we became more westernized that we adopted this style of combat with heavy destrier horses as well, which was of course reserved for the knightly elite. Before this, we fought in loose lines without solid divisions to be commanded and that required a smaller, more agile horse to accomplish.

Hungarian commoners had not horses in medieval early modern Hungary. Only the very rich, the warrior class the nobles had horses that time.
Your ancestors were peasants or shepherds (in cumania shepherds were the majority until the 19th century, and shepherds were literally goat fuckers from Western Europe to china)


Unlike you dear shepherd or villain descendent boy, I have noble origin, who rode on horseback.
Isn't it funny that you try to come up with horse riding????


Again, your ancesators were servants without horses.... Deal with it dear goat fucker shepherd descendant neo-cuman.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Hungarian commoners had not horses in medieval early modern Hungary.

[Stears]

Illiterate Gypsy monkey, your opinion has no importance.