Arpad dynasty DNA (kings of Hungary & Croatia)

[Jana]

It's certainly all Bell Beaker but there a fact ends. There are subclades of U152, U106, DF27 and L21 who have nothing to do with Celts and Germanics. There is a coorelation for sure but please remember that such clades were already found in Bell Beaker context when it is too early to speak of aforementioned linguistic groups.

As a result, for example, random U152 Pole may not be a descendant of Celt but of easternmost Bell Beaker Group. DF27 German isn't born from a Spanish soldier who took part in 30 years war (or a Roman legionary from Iberia) but survived as a part of older Bell Beaker layer. U106 Englishman may not have been of Anglo-Saxon background but a grand-grand-grand-grand....-son of Urnfield culture migrant who spoke non-Germanic dialect.

Now their descendants may test themselves and they read an oversimplified version of a story. It's not fair. It has always been more complex than that.

I know that.

[Proto-Shaman]

But you made for M458.

He said it himself in one of his papers. Polish researchers even argue M458 is Scytho-Sarmatian. So what?

The proto-Slavic warrior in Europe:
the Scythians, Sarmatians and Lekhs

[Vlatko Vukovic]

He said it himself in one of his papers. Polish researchers even argue M458 is Scytho-Sarmatian. So what?

Where he said that M458 is Scytho Sarmatian? Polish researchers argue about it, but NO ONE have proofs for it, since we don't have ancient sample of M458. Eupedia said it's proto-Slavic, and Z280 is not, so what? Could you consider it as proven?

[Dibran]

Where he said that M458 is Scytho Sarmatian? Polish researchers argue about it, but NO ONE have proofs for it, since we don't have ancient sample of M458. Eupedia said it's proto-Slavic, and Z280 is not, so what? Could you consider it as proven?

The fact there is no aDNA in presumably proto-slavic urheimat for M458 makes a stronger case against it. Of course we still need aDNA. I however hypothesize that it is L1029/L260/YP515 that are linked to the Proto-Slavic development that led to the migration. Their earliest ancestor M458 could have theoretically been Scytho-Sarmatian. Then upon participating in the Slavic ethnogenesis, later lines such as L1029/L260/YP515 would have branched off it. Also YP263, a sublcade of L1029, is believed to have spread from around the Morava and Ukraine. Assuming M458 was already incubating there earlier before the development of later clades, then its very plausible that Scytho-Sarmatians there could have carried M458. It has already not turned up in aDNA that is abundant in Z280(Balts & Slavs), and not turned up yet in Poland either. So how many other areas could it possibly be? It didn;t drop down with Aliens. Theres also later splintered branches of Dacii or Getae that fall within the horizon of the Slavic Urheimat. So, theoretically basal M458 could turn up to. But, given its coming up in some turkic groups like nogai and northern Kavkaz like Circassians(20 percent), or the Shapsug(22 percent). I am willing to bet due to the frequency of basal M458 among them, that for all we know Volga Bulgars, and or Pannonian Avars could have carried it. Which would make more sense of the historical narrative. I mean these steppe tribes bred like rabbits. The Shapsug for instance are mostly now in the southern Kavkaz and mostly in Turkey these days. Russian occupation/invasion didnt occur until the 1800s, and they are also extremely vehement towards Russians, so the line had to enter much earlier in history. If M458 specifically is Proto-Slavic(a term invented in the 1700s) basal quantities should be more prevalent in Slavs. But, as I understand the Kavkaz groups mentioned has mostly Basal M458, with a couple of M458 cases of "West Slavic" L260. M458 is also 3400 minimum TMRCA. Roughly 1400BC. If the Proto-Slavic urheimat is within the cultural horizon of what was Getae/Dacii, then you're telling me M458 was in Getae and Dacians? Otherwise, I think its more probable M458 is either from Volga Bulgars/Avars or Scytho-Sarmatians. With L1029/L260/YP515 being the Slavic branches that developed from it. Considering the Volga Bulgars fall within Russia, a historically R1a zone since antiquity, that seems pretty possible. Of course we have to wait for ancient samples.

[Stears]

R1 Turkic pride!

Only for people who live in a sub-culture in Cumania.

[Dick]

R1b U106 (S21) is Germanic.

R1b U152 (S23) is Celto-Italic and Gaulish.

R1b L21 is insular Celtic (Brittonic)

R1b DF27 is Celtiberian.

Here are some ancient samples from Britain. 2 examples of R1b U106(M405) from Roman Era Britain.






http://eurogenes.blogspot.ca/2016/01...n-and.html?m=1

[Massagetae]

P---> Q ---> R == Turkic.

Deal with it inferior little bitches.

[Massagetae]

Then we added some J2, N and C to the team and conquered all you mother f*ckers.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

The fact there is no aDNA in presumably proto-slavic urheimat for M458 makes a stronger case against it. Of course we still need aDNA. I however hypothesize that it is L1029/L260/YP515 that are linked to the Proto-Slavic development that led to the migration. Their earliest ancestor M458 could have theoretically been Scytho-Sarmatian. Then upon participating in the Slavic ethnogenesis, later lines such as L1029/L260/YP515 would have branched off it. Also YP263, a sublcade of L1029, is believed to have spread from around the Morava and Ukraine. Assuming M458 was already incubating there earlier before the development of later clades, then its very plausible that Scytho-Sarmatians there could have carried M458. It has already not turned up in aDNA that is abundant in Z280(Balts & Slavs), and not turned up yet in Poland either. So how many other areas could it possibly be? It didn;t drop down with Aliens. Theres also later splintered branches of Dacii or Getae that fall within the horizon of the Slavic Urheimat. So, theoretically basal M458 could turn up to. But, given its coming up in some turkic groups like nogai and northern Kavkaz like Circassians(20 percent), or the Shapsug(22 percent). I am willing to bet due to the frequency of basal M458 among them, that for all we know Volga Bulgars, and or Pannonian Avars could have carried it. Which would make more sense of the historical narrative. I mean these steppe tribes bred like rabbits. The Shapsug for instance are mostly now in the southern Kavkaz and mostly in Turkey these days. Russian occupation/invasion didnt occur until the 1800s, and they are also extremely vehement towards Russians, so the line had to enter much earlier in history. If M458 specifically is Proto-Slavic(a term invented in the 1700s) basal quantities should be more prevalent in Slavs. But, as I understand the Kavkaz groups mentioned has mostly Basal M458, with a couple of M458 cases of "West Slavic" L260. M458 is also 3400 minimum TMRCA. Roughly 1400BC. If the Proto-Slavic urheimat is within the cultural horizon of what was Getae/Dacii, then you're telling me M458 was in Getae and Dacians? Otherwise, I think its more probable M458 is either from Volga Bulgars/Avars or Scytho-Sarmatians. With L1029/L260/YP515 being the Slavic branches that developed from it. Considering the Volga Bulgars fall within Russia, a historically R1a zone since antiquity, that seems pretty possible. Of course we have to wait for ancient samples.

Yes, it's all correct, but without ancient data, it's hard to tell anything definitly. And it's not me really who said that "as fact", but Eupedia. I don't know reasons for it.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Then we added some J2, N and C to the team and conquered all you mother f*ckers.

Yes, Turko-Mongol alliance against the time. I must dissapoint you, it's not still 11th century.