Arpad dynasty DNA (kings of Hungary & Croatia)

[Dibran]

Both is incorrect, since 0 Scythians who are tested were M458. So based on what they are Scythians? About Turkic, there is only in Karachay-Balkars, and nowhere else in whole Turkic world. Klyosov claims that Z280 and M458 formed the proto-Slavs. But for such general statement, we have to wait for ancient DNA sample.

I already mentioned the Nogai to you. The Bashkirs also have some negligible amounts. Theres also been no proto-slavic graves remains with M458 either. Only Z280 has been found. So your claim is just as flimsy without aDNA.

[Jana]

I already mentioned the Nogai to you. The Bashkirs also have some negligible amounts. Theres also been no proto-slavic graves remains with M458 either. Only Z280 has been found. So your claim us just as flimsy without aDNA.

Z280 was found among proto-Slavs ? I didn't know any proto Slavic graves were sampled!

[Vlatko Vukovic]

I already mentioned the Nogai to you. The Bashkirs also have some negligible amounts. Theres also been no proto-slavic graves remains with M458 either. Only Z280 has been found. So your claim is just as flimsy without aDNA.

As i said, man, KLYOSOV is claiming that, not me. And the Kipchak Hakan supports Klyosov.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

Z280 was found among proto-Slavs ? I didn't know any proto Slavic graves were sampled!

And how they could be if proto-Slavic urhemeit was never marked? Some people say it's Zarubintsy culture, some say it's Chernyakov culture, some say it's Przeworsk, and also some say (as Klyosov) that even Fatyanovo culture is proto-Slavic. So the question for Dibran would be: from which culture is founded Z280 about he speaks ?

[Dibran]

Z280 was found among proto-Slavs ? I didn't know any proto Slavic graves were sampled!

I meant Balto-Slavic.

[Dibran]

And how they could be if proto-Slavic urhemeit was never marked? Some people say it's Zarubintsy culture, some say it's Chernyakov culture, some say it's Przeworsk, and also some say (as Klyosov) that even Fatyanovo culture is proto-Slavic. So the question for Dibran would be: from which culture is founded Z280 about he speaks ?

See Above. Anyway we are not specifically speaking about Proto-Slavs. But, about M458 aDNA which there is none. Yet, you speak as if M458 is already known. Modern distributions are not representations of aDNA.

[Vlatko Vukovic]

"The origins of the Slavs go back to circa 3500 BCE with the northern Yamna culture and its expansion across Central and Northeast Europe with the Corded Ware culture. The M458 and Z280 lineages spread around Poland, Belarus, Ukraine and western Russia, and would form the core of the Proto-Balto-Slavic culture. The high prevalence of R1a in Baltic and Slavic countries nowadays is not only due to the Corded Ware expansion, but also to a long succession of later migrations from Russia, the last of which took place from the 5th to the 10th century CE. The Slavic branch differentiated itself when the Corded Ware culture absorbed the Cucuteni-Tripolye culture (5200-2600 BCE) of western Ukraine and north-eastern Romania, which appears to have been composed primarily of G2a-U1 et I2a1b-M423 lineages descended directly from Paleolithic Europeans, with some other Near-Eastern farmer lineages (notably E-V13, J2a and T1a). It is surely during this period that I2a2, E-V13 and T spread (along with R1a) around Poland, Belarus and western Russia, explaining why eastern and northern Slavs (and Lithuanians) have between 10 and 20% of I2a1b lineages and about 10% of Middle Eastern lineages (18% for Ukrainians).

The Corded Ware period was followed in the steppes by the Srubna culture (1800-1200 BCE), and around Poland by the Trzciniec culture (1700-1200 BCE).

The last important Slavic migration is thought to have happened in the 6th century CE, from Ukraine to Poland, Slovakia and Slovenia, filling the vacuum left by eastern Germanic tribes who invaded the Roman Empire. Both the M458 and the Z280 branches are associated with this late Slavic migration, but more particularly Z280."

[Arthur9]

I am happy i am not R1A/R1B , what a clusterfuck.

[Dibran]

"The origins of the Slavs go back to circa 3500 BCE with the northern Yamna culture and its expansion across Central and Northeast Europe with the Corded Ware culture. The M458 and Z280 lineages spread around Poland, Belarus, Ukraine and western Russia, and would form the core of the Proto-Balto-Slavic culture. The high prevalence of R1a in Baltic and Slavic countries nowadays is not only due to the Corded Ware expansion, but also to a long succession of later migrations from Russia, the last of which took place from the 5th to the 10th century CE. The Slavic branch differentiated itself when the Corded Ware culture absorbed the Cucuteni-Tripolye culture (5200-2600 BCE) of western Ukraine and north-eastern Romania, which appears to have been composed primarily of G2a-U1 et I2a1b-M423 lineages descended directly from Paleolithic Europeans, with some other Near-Eastern farmer lineages (notably E-V13, J2a and T1a). It is surely during this period that I2a2, E-V13 and T spread (along with R1a) around Poland, Belarus and western Russia, explaining why eastern and northern Slavs (and Lithuanians) have between 10 and 20% of I2a1b lineages and about 10% of Middle Eastern lineages (18% for Ukrainians).

The Corded Ware period was followed in the steppes by the Srubna culture (1800-1200 BCE), and around Poland by the Trzciniec culture (1700-1200 BCE).

The last important Slavic migration is thought to have happened in the 6th century CE, from Ukraine to Poland, Slovakia and Slovenia, filling the vacuum left by eastern Germanic tribes who invaded the Roman Empire. Both the M458 and the Z280 branches are associated with this late Slavic migration, but more particularly Z280."

Wheres the aDNA? Oh we don't have any yet? Then one theory is as good as the next, until some actual aDNA surfaces.

[Rethel]

Władke,
Dibran is here absoluty right.