Dodecad Ancestry Project

**Frederick** · 08-30-2011, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by Johnston

Those clusters do not represent geography. They are actually rather distorted beyond belief.

Really? Is that what you see?
This gives me some interesting informations about you. Your overall characteristic position and mental abilities.

**~~Johnston~~** · 08-30-2011, 06:52 AM

Originally Posted by Frederick

Really? Is that what you see?
This gives me some interesting informations about you. Your overall characteristic position and mental abilities.

Why thank you for your insults.

If you wish to look at yourself through a petri dish, and make divinations as if it were entrails of some sacrificial animal, then why should I bother?

**Frederick** · 08-30-2011, 07:01 AM

Originally Posted by Johnston

Why thank you for your insults.

If you wish to look at yourself through a petri dish, and make divinations as if it were entrails of some sacrificial animal, then why should I bother?

No problem.

LEts make some more training.

This is a glas.

This is...
"johnston": It totaly does not resemble the other one, its totaly contradicting!"
OK, John...but its still a glas.

JOhn: Now, dont come me with that! Its totaly and absolutely something totaly different! there are riffles and all this!

Well John, but still its a glas.

**Humanophage** · 08-30-2011, 08:12 AM

Originally Posted by Johnston

Those all look like conflicting data. Not worth my money!

I don't quite see where the results are conflicting.

**~~Johnston~~** · 08-30-2011, 08:31 AM

Originally Posted by Humanophage

I don't quite see where the results are conflicting.

Every different test comes up with different results, because the parameters are different, meaning different categories exist. What is the right classification outline? Too many to choose from...

**Humanophage** · 08-30-2011, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by Johnston

Every different test comes up with different results, because the parameters are different, meaning different categories exist. What is the right classification outline? Too many to choose from...

Your genome exists objectively (raw data), and it can be described in many ways (tools), using a variety of coordinates. The diversity of classification arises from the fact that the world can be divided across many lines, but it doesn't change the biological reality.

For example, Europe can be divided into Southern and Northern, and Western and Eastern. One tool uses N-S, another W-E. You find on one tool that you have 80% N elements, and on another that you have 80% W elements. Considering them, you conclude that you are mostly North-Western. Yet another tool divides Europe into Atlantic, Uralic, Balkan, Iberian. You score 70% on Atlantic - which says a similar thing to the N-S and W-E tools, but in different words. Some tools zoom in further to look at smaller regions, some provide very complex coordinates.

Using many different tools and measuring your genome on different factors, you can conclude as to its nature. Some tools are not precise, but a good way to see the merit of a tool is too look at how reasonably it describes the general relation between various nations. Dodecad and Eurogenes are both quite reasonable in this aspect.

**Kadu** · 08-30-2011, 07:01 PM

Playing around with the oracle program...

It's quite interesting that the most MENA chromossomes here correspond to Middle Eastern and African segments in Prof.McD's chromossome painting.

note: I choose the French Basques and the Mozabite for their isolation.

Chr 1

closest pop.

"Portuguese_D" "14.2074"

Admixture:

"79.7% French_Basque + 20.3% Saudis" "12.1738"

Chr 2

closest pop.

"French_Basque" "7.3552"

Admixture:

"94.5% French_Basque + 5.5% Thai" "4.7864"

Chr 3

closest pop.

"Portuguese_D" "5.5317"

Admixture:

"89.3% French_Basque + 10.7% Mozabite_H" "6.4663"

Chr 4

closest pop.

"French" "15.0621"

Admixture:

"79.7% French_Basque + 20.3% Saudis" "8.156"

Chr 5

closest pop.

"Spaniards" "6.851"

Admixture:

"93.7% French_Basque + 6.3% Mozabite_H" "4.6403"

Chr 6

closest pop.

"Portuguese_D" "8.9795"

Admixture:

"68.7% French_Basque + 31.3% Palestinian" "8.9145"

Chr 7

closest pop.

"Tuscan_H" "10.5433"

Admixture:

"66.9% French_Basque + 33.1% Palestinian" "3.6317"

Chr 8

closest pop.

"Portuguese_D" "13.3701"

Admixture:

"84.1% French_Basque + 15.9% Saudis" "4.7202"

Chr 9

closest pop.

"Spaniards" "6.6472"

Admixture:

"92.4% French_Basque + 7.6% Mozabite_H" "4.5216"

Chr 10

closest pop.

"Portuguese_D" "6.1778"

Admixture:

"90.7% French_Basque + 9.3% Mozabite_H" "6.7866"

Chr 11

closest pop.

"N_Italian_D" "13.4641"

Admixture:

"63.2% French_Basque + 36.8% Turkish_D" "11.3022"

Chr 12

closest pop.

"Portuguese_D" "4.7087"

Admixture:

"86.9% French_Basque + 13.1% Mozabite_H" "6.9508"

Chr 13

closest pop.

"Portuguese_D" "10.6544"

Admixture:

"74.8% French_Basque + 25.2% Yemenese" "7.4308"

Chr 14

closest pop.

"Portuguese_D" "15.8912"

Admixture:

"15.2% Mozabite + 84.8% TSI" "11.8635"

Chr 15

closest pop.

"North_Italian" "8.2135"

Admixture:

"57.1% French_Basque + 42.9% S_Italian_D" "6.3083"

Chr 16

closest pop.

"Sardinian" "18.0121"

Admixture:

"15.1% Mozabite + 84.9% Tuscan" "20.1251"

Chr 17

closest pop.

"Portuguese_D" "11.1998"

Admixture:

"18.5% Belorussian + 81.5% French_Basque" "5.4225"

Chr 18

closest pop.

"French_Basque" "9.1593"

Admixture:

"91.9% French_Basque + 8.1% Mozabite_H" "4.4645"

Chr 19

closest pop.

"O_Italian_D" "12.8235"

Admixture:

"17.2% Chuvashs_16 + 82.8% Tuscan" "8.3058"

Chr 20

closest pop.

"Sardinian" "6.7713"

Admixture:

"75% French_Basque + 25% Samaritians" "12.2127"

Chr 21

closest pop.

"French" "13.9238"

Admixture:

"50% French_Basque + 50% Irish_D" "9.8556"

Chr 22

closest pop.

"Portuguese_D" "17.3147"

Admixture:

"75.7% French_Basque + 24.3% Saudis" "10.4584"

Genome-wide

DodecadOracle(c(1.24, 41.69, 41.89, 0.61, 3.27, 0.01, 0, 0.63, 1.81, 3.34, 5.50, 0),mixedmode=T)

[1,] "17.4% Egyptans + 82.6% French_Basque" "5.2935"
[2,] "83.4% French_Basque + 16.6% Yemenese" "5.9582"
[3,] "82.3% French_Basque + 17.7% Palestinian" "6.0211"
[4,] "83% French_Basque + 17% Jordanians_19" "6.1969"
[5,] "82.8% French_Basque + 17.2% Lebanese" "6.3786"
[6,] "77.8% French_Basque + 22.2% Sephardic_Jews" "6.4303"
[7,] "15.6% Bedouin + 84.4% French_Basque" "6.4875"
[8,] "84% French_Basque + 16% Syrians" "6.8094"
[9,] "83.4% French_Basque + 16.6% Samaritians" "6.8172"
[10,] "88.8% French_Basque + 11.2% Mozabite_H" "7.0901"

**Graham** · 08-31-2011, 02:08 AM

Top population by chromosome, too damn Irish

"Norwegian_D" "13.5248"
"Cornwall_1KG" "5.0466"
"Irish_D" "9.3998"
"Dutch_D" "7.6135"
"Irish_D" "14.1981"
"Irish_D" "10.2298"
"Irish_D" "7.7156"
"Irish_D" "9.528"
"Irish_D" "7.4474"
"Irish_D" "13.965"
"Irish_D" "10.8825"
"Norwegian_D" "14.5978"
"Irish_D" "15.1635"
"Irish_D" "4.3421"
"French" "5.5427"
"Norwegian_D" "17.6212"
"Norwegian_D" "9.739"
"Irish_D" "13.9852"
"German_D" "10.6425"
"Irish_D" "5.4372"
"Argyll_1KG" "6.7412"
"Irish_D" "11.3448"

Chrom 15 I don't have any Uk cousins yet. Chrom 19 I share a large amount with a Shetlander.

**Humanophage** · 08-31-2011, 05:42 PM

Here are mine:

Code:

1	FIN         	9.667	
2	Mixed_Slav_D	11.6598	
3	Russian_D	11.4167	
4	Hungarians	15.1674
5	FIN	        14.6391
6	Mixed_Slav_D	13.0183
7	Polish_D	5.3431
8	Russian_D	6.5072
9	Hungarians	9.6005
10	Polish_D	12.7041
11	FIN         	9.2743
12	Finnish_D	10.4971	
13	Finnish_D	11.8036	
14	Hungarians	11.1875	
15	German_D	17.2096	
16	Slovenian   	7.1437	
17	Hungarians	11.6839	
18	Mixed_Slav_D	8.6327	
19	Mixed_Slav_D	8.2442
20	Finnish_D	10.6054
21	Mixed_Slav_D	18.1396	
22	Russian_D	10.219

Mixed_Slav_D = 5
Hungarian = 4
FIN = 3
Finnish_D = 3
Russian_D = 3
Polish_D = 2
Slovenian = 1
German_D = 1

With greater elaboration, since "Mixed Slavs" are a vague group, and FIN aren't strictly Finns.

Code:

1	 [1,] FIN         9.667  
	 [2,] German_D    15.2072
	 [3,] Swedish_D   17.9123
2	 [1,] Mixed_Slav_D 11.6598
	 [2,] Russian_D    12.3579
	 [3,] Polish_D     14.3817
3	 [1,] Russian_D    11.4167
	 [2,] Polish_D     12.1632
	 [3,] Russian      12.2554
4	 [1,] Hungarians   15.1674
	 [2,] Slovenian    15.3872
	 [3,] German_D     20.8246
5	 [1,] FIN          14.6391
	 [2,] Finnish_D    18.5119
	 [3,] Slovenian    19.647 
6	 [1,] Mixed_Slav_D 13.0183
	 [2,] Hungarians   14.1755
	 [3,] Polish_D     14.3841
7	 [1,] Polish_D     5.3431 
	 [2,] Mixed_Slav_D 6.896  
	 [3,] Russian_D    12.79 
8	 [1,] Russian_D    6.5072 
	 [2,] Mixed_Slav_D 8.2488 
	 [3,] Russian      9.4432 
9	 [1,] Hungarians   9.6005 
	 [2,] Polish_D     12.0513
	 [3,] Mixed_Slav_D 12.4813
10	 [1,] Polish_D     12.7041
	 [2,] Mixed_Slav_D 14.2994
	 [3,] Hungarians   15.3044
11	 [1,] FIN         9.2743 
	 [2,] Finnish_D   15.7954
	 [3,] German_D    17.6308
12	 [1,] Finnish_D    10.4971
	 [2,] FIN          13.3701
	 [3,] Polish_D     17.3516
13	 [1,] Finnish_D    11.8036
	 [2,] Polish_D     15.7074
	 [3,] Mixed_Slav_D 16.0502
14	 [1,] Hungarians   11.1875
	 [2,] Polish_D     13.1533
	 [3,] Slovenian    14.7009
15	 [1,] German_D         17.2096
	 [2,] Swedish_D        17.5679
	 [3,] N._European      17.7019
16	 [1,] Slovenian   7.1437 
	 [2,] Hungarians  10.1812
	 [3,] German_D    12.4577
17	 [1,] Hungarians   11.6839
	 [2,] Slovenian    13.8442
	 [3,] Balkans_D    15.031 
18	 [1,] Mixed_Slav_D 8.6327 
	 [2,] Russian_D    8.6937 
	 [3,] Polish_D     11.1193
19	 [1,] Mixed_Slav_D 8.2442 
	 [2,] Polish_D     9.2166 
	 [3,] Russian_D    13.4264
20	 [1,] Finnish_D    10.6054
	 [2,] FIN          16.6364
	 [3,] Russian      21.6142
21	 [1,] Mixed_Slav_D 18.1396
	 [2,] Russian_D    19.6402
	 [3,] Belorussian  19.7919
22	 [1,] Russian_D    10.219 
	 [2,] Mixed_Slav_D 11.2899
	 [3,] Russian      11.7717

Mixed_Slav = 11
Polish_D = 11
Russian_D = 8
Hungarians = 7
FIN = 5
German_D = 5
Slovenian = 5
Finnish_D = 5
Russian = 4
Swedish_D = 2
Belorussian = 1
Balkans_D = 1
N. European = 1

And by admixture:

Code:

1. 34% Lithuanians + 66% Norwegian_D      5.6864
2. 15.1% Lezgins + 84.9% Russian_D     4.7664
3. 40.6% Belorussian + 59.4% Finnish_D  5.218 
4. 47.3% French_D + 52.7% Russian         11.1491
5. 85.2% FIN + 14.8% Naidu       6.0881
6. 19.7% Makrani + 80.3% Polish_D               5.6076
7. 74% Belorussian + 26% French_D           2.9759
8. 7% Moroccans + 93% Russian_D           4.139 
9.  25.5% French + 74.5% Mixed_Slav_D     1.8663
10. 45.7% French_D + 54.3% Lithuanian_D       4.9695
11. 75% Finnish_D + 25% French_Basque     6.2939
12. 59.6% Russian + 40.4% Swedish_D      4.4612
13. 12.5% Bedouin + 87.5% Finnish_D        6.3979
14. 57.7% Lithuanians + 42.3% Spaniards      3.3127 
15. 20.1% Iranian_D + 79.9% Swedish_D  8.4196
16. 26% FIN + 74% Slovenian                2.4918
17. 68% Polish_D + 32% Stalskoe               4.161 
18. 74.9% Lithuanians + 25.1% Urkarah   3.5821
19. 40.6% Lithuanian_D + 59.4% Slovenian        4.1395
20. 87.8% Finnish_D + 12.2% Lezgins  4.8784
21. 73.9% Belorussian + 26.1% Kurd            7.1304
22.  73.1% Lithuanians + 26.9% Urkarah   4.0947

(Stalskoe and Urkarah are Dagestani)

5 is the most amusing one.

**Transhumanist** · 08-31-2011, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by Kadu

Genome-wide
DodecadOracle(c(1.24, 41.69, 41.89, 0.61, 3.27, 0.01, 0, 0.63, 1.81, 3.34, 5.50, 0),mixedmode=T)

[1,] "17.4% Egyptans + 82.6% French_Basque" "5.2935"
[2,] "83.4% French_Basque + 16.6% Yemenese" "5.9582"
[3,] "82.3% French_Basque + 17.7% Palestinian" "6.0211"
[4,] "83% French_Basque + 17% Jordanians_19" "6.1969"
[5,] "82.8% French_Basque + 17.2% Lebanese" "6.3786"
[6,] "77.8% French_Basque + 22.2% Sephardic_Jews" "6.4303"
[7,] "15.6% Bedouin + 84.4% French_Basque" "6.4875"
[8,] "84% French_Basque + 16% Syrians" "6.8094"
[9,] "83.4% French_Basque + 16.6% Samaritians" "6.8172"
[10,] "88.8% French_Basque + 11.2% Mozabite_H" "7.0901"

Are both your parents tested? I found that the Oracle results based on the average values of my mom and dad's v3 K=12 components were more in line with my known ancestry. The same can be applied to siblings. I am not sure if anyone has tested 4 grandparents, but this, in theory, would help refine the Oracle results even further for an individual. The benefits of having a larger sample size. The population averages are simply extensions of this. Helps to reduce the possible effects of ordinary individual variation. Assuming a relatively homogeneous population.

My top Oracle prediction, based on the average of my mom and dad's values:
[1,] "16.3% Georgians + 83.7% Iraq_Jews" "1.8684"

And, you can then try mapping the "mix," to see if you can make sense of it from a different perspective. The "X" marks the spot where other analyses have suggested my ancestral origins lie (McDonald, Population Finder, etc.). Tbilisi was used for the Georgian population, and Baghdad for the Iraqi Jewish population. As one or both of these locations may not accurately capture the average geographical origins of the two population samples in question, there is a degree of error which certainly must be allowed for. The arrows represent (at least in part) that potential error. And, given that the error appears to be one of latitude, rather than longitude, and the Georgian placement, north to south, does not leave much room for adjustment, I reckon the error lies with the placement of the Iraqi Jews. They are too far to the south. But, either way, it is certainly in the ballpark. If your top "mix" predictions are within a reasonable distance of one another, you can repeat this for as many mix combinations as there are, and then determine the average of these points.