Are Kazakhs indeed Turkified Mongols?

[Blondie]

Hm. So you believe the proto-Uralic originated somewhere in Estonia? I thought the proto-FU originated somewhere in Udmurtia and Perm Krai (the Kama river).

They originated from North East Europe.

[Chelubey]

Kazakhs are only 2% Turk ( Q1)? God bless such a strong bad ass group. 2% Q1 Turkified the majority of Kazakhs.

But I'm still disappointed in Mongols because being a big number they didn't manage to Mongolify even a small part of big semi-empty Kazakhstan territory. Very poor results!

Aryanz R1a and R1b: "We love Turkic language. We will help to Turkify Mongol invaders."
J and G Caucasus master races: "Allahu Akbar! Bros lets together Turkify Mongol invaders!"

Ancient Mongols loved ancient Turks and willingly assimilated among them. All present-day Turkic people are partly Mongols.

[Leto]

Ancient Mongols loved ancient Turks and willingly assimilated among them. All present-day Turkic people are partly Mongols.

Dude, they destroyed your ancestrors' statehood - Volga Bulgaria. It was a Muslim state which was destroyed by the pagan savages. Modern Tatars are around 80% European/West Eurasian, identifying with Genghis Khan is ridiculous, it's basically 'we wuz kangz and shit, we konquered you Slav(e)s, we wuz da masters'. Volga Tatars have more Finno-Ugric ancestry than Mongolian and are generally closer to Russians genetically than to Mongols.

Have you seen Mongols looking like Ilsur Metshin, the mayor of Kazan?

[Leto]

My threads with actual DNA results, no goddamn speculations!

Mongolian GEDmatch results
Volga Tatar GEDmatch

[mutabor]

Dude, they destroyed your ancestrors' statehood - Volga Bulgaria. It was a Muslim state which was destroyed by the pagan savages.

Kazan was very rich and prosperous city in Golden Horde until Russians conquered it. Since then Kazan turned into provincial city and lost its glory.

[Leto]

Kazan was very rich and prosperous city in Golden Horde until Russians conquered it. Since then Kazan turned into provincial city and lost its glory.

Tatarstan is actually one of the strongest regions of Russia economically. Nice try.

[Chelubey]

Dude, they destroyed your ancestrors' statehood - Volga Bulgaria.

They rejected Mongolian love and were punished.

Volga Tatars have more Finno-Ugric ancestry than Mongolian and are generally closer to Russians genetically than to Mongols.

I saw a couple of autosomal tests of Tatars.
Their European component is modeled as a mix of Baltic people + Western Slavs + Balkan people and perhaps has no recent Finno-Ugric origin and goes back to the local Iron Age - Bronze Age

[Leto]

I saw a couple of autosomal tests of Tatars.
Their European component is modeled as a mix of Baltic people + Western Slavs + Balkan people and perhaps has no recent Finno-Ugric origin and goes back to the local Iron Age - Bronze Age

Well, Finno-Ugric is a linguistic term, there's no such race as Finno-Ugric. It's a group of mutually unintelligible languages and some prehistoric genetic connections such as the N haplogroup. Before the Bulgars migrated to the Middle Volga after the 600s AD, the region was presumably populated by FU-speaking groups. The Chuvash speak a language the most closely related to that of the Volga Bulgars, as far I know. Modern Tatar is a Kipchak language adopted after the Mongol invasion.

[Chelubey]

Well, Finno-Ugric is a linguistic term, there's no such race as Finno-Ugric. It's a group of mutually unintelligible languages and some prehistoric genetic connections such as the N haplogroup. Before the Bulgars migrated to the Middle Volga after the 600s AD, the region was presumably populated by FU-speaking groups. The Chuvash speak a language the most closely related to that of the Volga Bulgars, as far I know. Modern Tatar is a Kipchak language adopted after the Mongol invasion.

No, Tatar language represents a mixture of two Turkic dialects (with initial "j" and initial "y").
Those who have an initial "j" - seem to be of Bulgarian origin. Those who have initial "y" are descendants of Kipachak/Kuman/Nogai

[Leto]

A Mishar Tatar 'academic' sample on GEDmatch: Z022368

There is a lot of Tatar kits on GM, I myself had around 100. This forum is not very interested in actual data, more in baseless speculations.

MDLP K23b Oracle results:

Kit Z022368

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 European_Hunters_Gatherers 42.75
2 Caucasian 22.08
3 East_Siberian 8.14
4 Ancestral_Altaic 7.96
5 South_Central_Asian 6.68
6 Near_East 3.64
7 Tungus-Altaic 3.61
8 Austronesian 1.34
9 North_African 1.2
10 Australoid 0.96
11 Amerindian 0.62
12 Arctic 0.6
13 Melano_Polynesian 0.33
14 South_East_Asian 0.08
15 European_Early_Farmers 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Tatar_Mishar ( ) 2.11
2 Tatar ( ) 7.47
3 Tatar_Kryashen ( ) 7.92
4 Tatar-Kazan ( ) 8.05
5 Vepsa ( ) 8.33
6 Russian-North ( ) 8.58
7 Russian_Vologda ( ) 8.72
8 Tatar-Mishar ( ) 8.94
9 Karelian ( ) 9.61
10 Erzya ( ) 9.7
11 Russian-Ural ( ) 9.73
12 Chuvashs ( ) 9.91
13 Komi ( ) 10.42
14 Tatar_Lithuania ( ) 11.7
15 Estonian ( ) 11.76
16 Moksha ( ) 11.92
17 Mordovian ( ) 12
18 Russian-Upper-Volga ( ) 12.05
19 Saami_Kola ( ) 12.09
20 Chuvash ( ) 12.13

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 99% Tatar_Mishar ( ) + 1% Adjara ( ) @ 1.99
2 98.8% Tatar_Mishar ( ) + 1.2% Ossetian ( ) @ 2
3 99.1% Tatar_Mishar ( ) + 0.9% Georgian_Svan ( ) @ 2
4 99.1% Tatar_Mishar ( ) + 0.9% Georgian_Tbilisi ( ) @ 2
5 98.7% Tatar_Mishar ( ) + 1.3% North_Ossetian ( ) @ 2
6 98.5% Tatar_Mishar ( ) + 1.5% Yemenite_Jew ( ) @ 2
7 99.1% Tatar_Mishar ( ) + 0.9% Abkhasian ( ) @ 2.01
8 98.7% Tatar_Mishar ( ) + 1.3% Chechen ( ) @ 2.01
9 98.7% Tatar_Mishar ( ) + 1.3% Kabardin ( ) @ 2.01
10 99.2% Tatar_Mishar ( ) + 0.8% Georgian_Imereti ( ) @ 2.01
11 98.8% Tatar_Mishar ( ) + 1.2% Balkar ( ) @ 2.01
12 99.1% Tatar_Mishar ( ) + 0.9% Georgian_Megrelia ( ) @ 2.01
13 98.5% Tatar_Mishar ( ) + 1.5% Avar ( ) @ 2.01
14 99.1% Tatar_Mishar ( ) + 0.9% Georgian ( ) @ 2.01
15 98.4% Tatar_Mishar ( ) + 1.6% Lak ( ) @ 2.01
16 98.4% Tatar_Mishar ( ) + 1.6% Dargin_Urkarah ( ) @ 2.01
17 98.5% Tatar_Mishar ( ) + 1.5% Lezgin ( ) @ 2.01
18 99% Tatar_Mishar ( ) + 1% Kakheti ( ) @ 2.01
19 98.5% Tatar_Mishar ( ) + 1.5% Baku_WGA ( ) @ 2.02
20 98.8% Tatar_Mishar ( ) + 1.2% Adygei ( ) @ 2.02