My paleo-Balkan ancestors were Thracians

[vbnetkhio]

Not only. Slavonia and Baranja bronze age samples too.
Vučedol (R1b-Z2103)

this sample is somewhat pre-indo-european, although he has indo european y-dna. those later samples from Dalmatia are like him + 30% Yamnaya

Hungarian Scythians are a probably better representation of Pannonians for most of the Bronze and Iron ages

[Dušan]

only the Delmatian samples are similar to North Italians.

i think the border between HRV_IA-like tribes and BGR_IA-like tribes passed somewhere through modern Montenegro and Bosnia, based on k13 results of people from those areas.

Still, I am significantly closer to the East-Balkan sample than to the West-Balkan sample.



There are two possibilities:
1) southeastern Dinaric area (Herzegovina, Montenegro) had different Illyrian genetics than northwestern Dinaric area with that sample.
2) majority of my ancestors come from some area outside the Dinaric Alps - Kosovo, Moravian Serbia, Macedonia.

[Jana]

Yes, Croatians are the only Balkan population who’s paleo balkan ancestry comes from an HRV_MBA source. This population was identical to modern day northern Italians and carries western european drift which is lacking in the Mycenaean and BGR_IA samples.

Explains why my family looks the way it does, I think. We look noticably more western European than other South Slavs, even many other Croats (not all of them have such admixture), and we have no Germanic and Celtic almost at all (I mean genetically). It comes from our native part.

[andre]

Personally i think that the northern illyrians and pannonians were close to the modern northern italian (due to the hallstadt admix probably) and the southern illyrians (montenegro, northern albanian) were similar to the Tuscan people. The Dacian-Thracian and Hellenic were similar to modern Abruzzo.
Someone could try this model for Croatians,Romanians,Bulgarians etc

Thraco-Hellenic:Abruzzo
North_Illyrian-Pannonian:Italian_Bergamo/Lombardy
Central/South_Illyrian:Italian_Tuscany
Slavic: Russian_Smolensk
Celto-Germanic: Dutch

[Jana]

this sample is somewhat pre-indo-european, although he has indo european y-dna. those later samples from Dalmatia are like him + 30% Yamnaya

Hungarian Scythians are a probably better representation of Pannonians for most of the Bronze and Iron ages

He has common Gheg Albanian ydna too, and this culture was ancestral to Illyrians.
Dalmatian samples are more north, but not that radically. They still get North Italian, just with extra NW input.

My guess is since this sample was much more eastern geographically, so it probably has Thracian like admixture.
Dalmatian samples are purer ofcourse.

[vbnetkhio]

Still, I am significantly closer to the East-Balkan sample than to the West-Balkan sample.

why wouldn't you be? read again what i said. most of Montenegrins and Bosniaks match BGR_IA better than HRV_IA.

[vbnetkhio]

He has common Gheg Albanian ydna too, and this culture was ancestral to Illyrians.
Dalmatian samples are more north, but not that radically. They still get North Italian, just with extra NW input.

My guess is since this sample was much more eastern geographically, so it probably has Thracian like admixture.
Dalmatians are purer ofcourse.

this is Davidski's model for that Italian sample which was probably an iron age North Balkan migrant in Italy

ITA_Proto-Villanovan
HRV_Vucedol 0.677±0.031
Yamnaya_RUS_Samara 0.323±0.031

[Jana]

this is Davidski's model for that Italian sample which was probably an iron age North Balkan migrant in Italy

ITA_Proto-Villanovan
HRV_Vucedol 0.677±0.031
Yamnaya_RUS_Samara 0.323±0.031

Somebody should tell Davidski he uploaded wrong Vučedol sample in G25. One there is fully neolithic, it's not this sample that is on gedmatch.
There was neolithic burial on Vučedol location too (G2a) and he uploaded them instead of R1b real Vučedol sample. It has 0% steppe admixture.

Somebody should tell him to correct the mistake.

[Dušan]

why wouldn't you be? read again what i said. most of Montenegrins and Bosniaks match BGR_IA better than HRV_IA.

Ok, I understand.

[Jana]

Fake Vučedol sample on G25 (actually Balkan neolithic from same location)

Target: HRV_Vucedol
Distance: 3.1323% / 0.03132340

93.8 Sardinian
5.6 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.6 Ju_hoan_North

Distance to: HRV_Vucedol
0.03163849 Sardinian

Can anybody reach out to him and say he should upload actual Vučedol R1b instead? There are 2 or 3 bronze age samples available, they are all good.