Gedmatch calculators on Vahaduo

[vbnetkhio]

Not sure, but most consider realm of Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatnić cradle of ikavian because it's borders corespond with historical spread of ikavian.
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so you think the cradle of Ikavian was in Donji kraji and spread from there?

What dialect is originally spoken in upper Podrinje/SE Bosnia and SW Serbia/Northern Montenegro?

the language of Nemanjić's and Kotromanić's texts. modern Serbian and Croatian are Vlachified versions of that language.
Tuzla (Soli) area, and Bosnia(which didn't include Soli) was also part of that early Serbia.

[Jana]

so you think the cradle of Ikavian was in Donji kraji and spread from there?

Possibly.

the language of Nemanjić's and Kotromanić's texts. modern Serbian and Croatian are Vlachified versions of that language.
Tuzla (Soli) area, and Bosnia(which didn't include Soli) was also part of that early Serbia.

From what I know, Nemanjić texts were written on Serb version of Church Slavonic.

[vbnetkhio]

Possibly.


From what I know, Nemanjić texts were written on Serb version of Church Slavonic.

not all of them. Some Nemanjić charters were written in Serbian (called "Srpski narodni jezik" by linguists). some articeles in Dušan's code were in Church Slavonic, others were in Serbian, fro example:

O trgovĕh.
Što su kudĕ posekli Sasi gorĕ do sijega-zi zbora, tu-zi zemlju da si imaju.
Ako su komu vlastĕlinu bez pravdĕ uzeli zemlju, da se sudĕ s njim vlastĕle zakonom svetago kralja. A od s'da naprĕda Sasin da nĕ sĕče: a što seče, onoga-zi da ne teži, ni ljudi da ne sađa, (ni vlastelin ljudi da ne seli)
t'kmo da stoji pusta da raste gora. Nikto da ne zabrani Sasinu gorĕ, koliko jest trĕbe trgu, toliko-zi da sĕče.

O ljudjĕh crkovnih
34. Ljudie crkovni, koji drže crkovna sela, i zemlje crkovne a prognali su merophe crkovne, ili vlahe ot njizi koji su razgnali ljudi, da se svežu i da im se uzme zemlja i ljudije, i da ih drži crkva, dokle skupe ljudi koje su razgnali.

[Jana]

not all of them. Some Nemanjić charters were written in Serbian (called "Srpski narodni jezik" by linguists). some articeles in Dušan's code were in Church Slavonic, others were in Serbian, fro example:

O trgovĕh.
Što su kudĕ posekli Sasi gorĕ do sijega-zi zbora, tu-zi zemlju da si imaju.
Ako su komu vlastĕlinu bez pravdĕ uzeli zemlju, da se sudĕ s njim vlastĕle zakonom svetago kralja. A od s'da naprĕda Sasin da nĕ sĕče: a što seče, onoga-zi da ne teži, ni ljudi da ne sađa, (ni vlastelin ljudi da ne seli)
t'kmo da stoji pusta da raste gora. Nikto da ne zabrani Sasinu gorĕ, koliko jest trĕbe trgu, toliko-zi da sĕče.

O ljudjĕh crkovnih
34. Ljudie crkovni, koji drže crkovna sela, i zemlje crkovne a prognali su merophe crkovne, ili vlahe ot njizi koji su razgnali ljudi, da se svežu i da im se uzme zemlja i ljudije, i da ih drži crkva, dokle skupe ljudi koje su razgnali.

Interesting.

[Mingle]

How come that a serb get szekely as first place? And I usually get serbs as first. Is it because of our high Balkan?

Serbs don't get Szeklers are first. Only Moje ime does cause she's very western shifted. She has higher NA than Baltic which is rare for Serbs. Your results are also atypical for Szeklers so that's why you get Serbs first. Your mom gets "Szekely" first at a very close distance.

[Dick]

Serbs don't get Szeklers are first. Only Moje ime does cause she's very western shifted. She has higher NA than Baltic which is rare for Serbs. Your results are also atypical for Szeklers so that's why you get Serbs first. Your mom gets "Szekely" first at a very close distance.

My father does with converted 23andme v5 because his Baltic percentage drops and North atlantic rises. I assume his Myheritage raw data is a newer chip version. his result was done in October of this year.


Distance to: Dick-dad
2.75965578 Szekely
3.01069759 South_Croat_Morlach_Cluster
3.35611998 Serbian_new
3.44873890 Romanian_North_Moldova_Bukovina
3.55357566 Croat_Split
3.94434881 Serbian_Bosnia
4.04414919 Bosnian
5.12060543 Romanian_South_Central_Moldova
5.31914467 Csango_Gymes
5.66290980 Montenegrin
5.73098595 Romanian_Transylvania
6.43488151 Moldavian
7.24225794 Romanian_Oltenia
7.29854284 Slovenian
7.59961841 South_Croat_Slavic_Cluster
7.80423603 Hungarian
8.11554891 Macedonian
8.68035714 Croatian
9.89064710 Romanian_Muntenia
10.28980078 Kaykavian_Croatian
10.32951596 Bulgarian
11.41442645 North_Macedonian
11.55176028 Slovak
11.84739212 Austrian
13.32957239 Czech

[Mingle]

Those people are eastern shifted and their origin is eastern. They came to todays Croatia with Turks, and than get catholicised.

If they are real Craots, than you, Hrvoje, ph2ter are fake ones.

Other way around. The Morlach/Bunjevci cluster of South Croats plots has eastern origins, from Herzegovina around the Buna River. From there, they later migrated to modern South Croat inhabited lands. They score around 28-30% Baltic and all get Serbian as their top population on GEDmatch (before updated averages).

The South Croats that belong to the "Slavic cluster" are very far from Serbs. They are around 35% Baltic and no Serbs from any region score like them. They're native Croats without any eastern origins. They just score similar to Moldovans/Bessarabians due to similarity in some components.

[Jana]

Other way around. The Morlach/Bunjevci cluster of South Croats plots has eastern origins, from Herzegovina around the Buna River. From there, they later migrated to modern South Croat inhabited lands. They score around 28-30% Baltic and all get Serbian as their top population on GEDmatch (before updated averages).

The South Croats that belong to the "Slavic cluster" are very far from Serbs. They are around 35% Baltic and no Serbs from any region score like them. They're native Croats without any eastern origins. They just score similar to Moldovans/Bessarabians due to similarity in some components.

True, but keep in mind this Slavic cluster includes some BiH Croats as well. Westcoast though claims to have origins from Dalmatians who moved to Posušje if I remember correctly.

[Dušan]

Other way around. The Morlach/Bunjevci cluster of South Croats plots has eastern origins, probably from Herzegovina around the Buns River. From there, they later migrated to modern South Croat inhabited lands. They score around 28-30% Baltic and all get Serbian as their top population on GEDmatch (before updated averages).

The South Croats that belong to the "Slavic cluster" are very far from Serbs. They are around 35% Baltic and no Serbs from any region score like them. They're native Croats without any eastern origins. They just score similar to Moldovans/Bessarabian due to similarity in some components.

Both of them have nothing with kaykavian Croats.

Those Bunjevci cluster are closer to Serbs indeed, but there are Serbs who have 30%-34% Baltic.
Out of 14 tested members from Poreklo forum, 6 have that range of Baltic component - that is 43% of all members.
Average Baltic in that sample is 30.14%.

[Pribislav]

Other way around. The Morlach/Bunjevci cluster of South Croats plots has eastern origins, from Herzegovina around the Buna River. From there, they later migrated to modern South Croat inhabited lands. They score around 28-30% Baltic and all get Serbian as their top population on GEDmatch (before updated averages).

The South Croats that belong to the "Slavic cluster" are very far from Serbs. They are around 35% Baltic and no Serbs from any region score like them. They're native Croats without any eastern origins. They just score similar to Moldovans/Bessarabians due to similarity in some components.

Proto Bunjevci were probably from Buna river https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buna_(Neretva)

In relatively recent time Bunjevac became synonym for all Dinaric Catholics.