Where did haplogroup E1b1b in Europeans come from?

[Chris596]

Thats what I’m waiting for. That sample that seals the deal. That would mean finding the population that brought E-V13 to Europe. As much as people want to think this is a closed case and the most likely scenario of an Anatolian entrance this is just larp with no physical evidence lol. Until this sample comes up we are stuck at the beginning which is North Africa and Iberomaurusians. As for the SSA a VERY small amount of it would have remained(if any at all) by the time E-V13 mutation took place.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is what I'm also interested in. Clear evidence would be the best. And yep, I checked many calculators and on all of them I score a bit of SSA, so it must be something more recent, not thousands of years old.

[Halgurd]

Thats what I’m waiting for. That sample that seals the deal. That would mean finding the population that brought E-V13 to Europe. As much as people want to think this is a closed case and the most likely scenario of an Anatolian entrance this is just larp with no physical evidence lol. Until this sample comes up we are stuck at the beginning which is North Africa and Iberomaurusians. As for the SSA a VERY small amount of it would have remained(if any at all) by the time E-V13 mutation took place. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’m just looking at some rn using k13:

E-M78

Tarofalt3_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 29.38 SSA: 10.85
Tarofalt4_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 31.20 SSA: 9.68
Tarofalt5_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 29.45 SSA: 11.03

E-L618

I3948_Croatia_Cardial_N_7860_ybp: NE African: 0 SSA: 0

Distance using modern populations

Spoiler!

Distance to: I3948_Croatia_Cardial_N_7860_ybp
22.61021008 Sardinian
22.97746722 Sardinia
30.28674463 Algerian_Jewish
32.30964871 Italian_Jewish
32.51606987 Moroccan_Jew
33.45297296 Algerian
34.21497625 FrenchCorsica
34.28368271 Greek_Symi_Island
34.39513192 Tunisian
34.40450152 Greek_Dodecanese
34.50392586 Sephardic_Jewish
34.71593150 Libyan_Jewish
34.73218392 Calabria
34.81500969 West_Sicilian
34.84451607 Moroccan
34.97231619 Tunisian_Jewish
35.10109258 Mozabite_Berber
35.37707167 Malta
35.62446070 East_Sicilian
35.71989362 Sicily
35.87634876 Apulia
36.04751586 Ashkenazi
36.24512381 Campania
36.34523628 Molise
36.62603173 Central_Greek

And this one may not be as relevant because it’s quite recent, but it’s the only E-V13 result on k13 that I could find.

I7498_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE_E1b1b1a1b1a_H3a1 : NE African: 0.47 SSA: 1.02

Distance using modern populations:

Spoiler!

Distance to: I7498_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE_E1b1b1a1b1a_H3a1 _
6.25720385 Lombardy
6.83063687 Piedmont
7.48430357 Swiss_Italian
7.53193202 Swiss-Italian
7.60417648 Spanish_Extremadura
7.76864853 Portuguese
8.30093971 Liguria
8.82534419 Spanish_Murcia
8.92153574 Spanish_Galicia
9.19612962 Veneto
9.24881614 Emilia
9.36865519 Spanish_Valencia
9.40257943 Spanish_Andalucia
9.84419626 Trentino
9.91394977 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
10.38093926 Tuscany
10.67498946 FrenchCorsica
10.77681771 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
10.92390040 Friuli-VG
10.95368431 Spanish_Cataluna
11.98290032 Tuscan
12.66474240 Spanish_Cantabria
13.38974981 Romagna
13.42485754 AostaValley
13.48471357 Spanish_Aragon

EDIT: Found another:

CL38_longobard_north_italy (895 CE): NE Africa: 0.96 SSA: 0.66

Distance:

Spoiler!

Distance to: CL38_longobard_north_italy
6.37168737 Greek_Symi_Island
6.97559316 Calabria
7.44006720 Greek_Chios
7.61345519 Sicily
8.07280001 Campania
8.28610282 Malta
8.41152929 Greek_Dodecanese
9.59929164 Sephardic_Jewish
9.92915404 Apulia
9.92963746 Basilicata
10.24068845 East_Sicilian
10.49715676 Molise
10.66773172 Central_Greek
10.83117261 Greek_Andros_Island
11.05079635 Abruzzo
12.11841161 Italian_Jewish
12.83231857 West_Sicilian
13.08016819 Algerian_Jewish
13.13192674 Moroccan_Jew
13.22680233 Turk_Cypriot
13.58766352 Tunisian_Jewish
13.76693503 Ashkenazi
14.01965763 Greek_Cappadocian
14.43050242 Libyan_Jewish
14.73810368 Turk_Burgas

[Rocinante]

This is what I'm also interested in. Clear evidence would be the best. And yep, I checked many calculators and on all of them I score a bit of SSA, so it must be something more recent, not thousands of years old.

0.6% of SSA is having 0% of SSA. Just noise. Also I'm kidding about the E1b1, don't think that having that haplo means negroid, most if you are V13.

Try G25.

[Nassbean]

I’m just looking at some rn using k13:

E-M78

Tarofalt3_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 29.38 SSA: 10.85
Tarofalt4_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 31.20 SSA: 9.68
Tarofalt5_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 29.45 SSA: 11.03

E-L618

I3948_Croatia_Cardial_N_7860_ybp: NE African: 0 SSA: 0

Distance using modern populations

Spoiler!

Distance to: I3948_Croatia_Cardial_N_7860_ybp
22.61021008 Sardinian
22.97746722 Sardinia
30.28674463 Algerian_Jewish
32.30964871 Italian_Jewish
32.51606987 Moroccan_Jew
33.45297296 Algerian
34.21497625 FrenchCorsica
34.28368271 Greek_Symi_Island
34.39513192 Tunisian
34.40450152 Greek_Dodecanese
34.50392586 Sephardic_Jewish
34.71593150 Libyan_Jewish
34.73218392 Calabria
34.81500969 West_Sicilian
34.84451607 Moroccan
34.97231619 Tunisian_Jewish
35.10109258 Mozabite_Berber
35.37707167 Malta
35.62446070 East_Sicilian
35.71989362 Sicily
35.87634876 Apulia
36.04751586 Ashkenazi
36.24512381 Campania
36.34523628 Molise
36.62603173 Central_Greek

And this one may not be as relevant because it’s quite recent, but it’s the only E-V13 result on k13 that I could find.

I7498_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE_E1b1b1a1b1a_H3a1 : NE African: 0.47 SSA: 1.02

Distance using modern populations:

Spoiler!

Distance to: I7498_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE_E1b1b1a1b1a_H3a1 _
6.25720385 Lombardy
6.83063687 Piedmont
7.48430357 Swiss_Italian
7.53193202 Swiss-Italian
7.60417648 Spanish_Extremadura
7.76864853 Portuguese
8.30093971 Liguria
8.82534419 Spanish_Murcia
8.92153574 Spanish_Galicia
9.19612962 Veneto
9.24881614 Emilia
9.36865519 Spanish_Valencia
9.40257943 Spanish_Andalucia
9.84419626 Trentino
9.91394977 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
10.38093926 Tuscany
10.67498946 FrenchCorsica
10.77681771 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
10.92390040 Friuli-VG
10.95368431 Spanish_Cataluna
11.98290032 Tuscan
12.66474240 Spanish_Cantabria
13.38974981 Romagna
13.42485754 AostaValley
13.48471357 Spanish_Aragon

EDIT: Found another:

CL38_longobard_north_italy (895 CE): NE Africa: 0.96 SSA: 0.66

be careful with those calculators Taforalt had ANA but no SSA

[Halgurd]

be careful with those calculators Taforalt had ANA but no SSA

Yeah it’s probably not a good idea to use these ancients on modern components but yeah it gives us an idea.

[Daos777]

I’m just looking at some rn using k13:

E-M78

Tarofalt3_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 29.38 SSA: 10.85
Tarofalt4_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 31.20 SSA: 9.68
Tarofalt5_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 29.45 SSA: 11.03

E-L618

I3948_Croatia_Cardial_N_7860_ybp: NE African: 0 SSA: 0

Distance using modern populations

Spoiler!

Distance to: I3948_Croatia_Cardial_N_7860_ybp
22.61021008 Sardinian
22.97746722 Sardinia
30.28674463 Algerian_Jewish
32.30964871 Italian_Jewish
32.51606987 Moroccan_Jew
33.45297296 Algerian
34.21497625 FrenchCorsica
34.28368271 Greek_Symi_Island
34.39513192 Tunisian
34.40450152 Greek_Dodecanese
34.50392586 Sephardic_Jewish
34.71593150 Libyan_Jewish
34.73218392 Calabria
34.81500969 West_Sicilian
34.84451607 Moroccan
34.97231619 Tunisian_Jewish
35.10109258 Mozabite_Berber
35.37707167 Malta
35.62446070 East_Sicilian
35.71989362 Sicily
35.87634876 Apulia
36.04751586 Ashkenazi
36.24512381 Campania
36.34523628 Molise
36.62603173 Central_Greek

And this one may not be as relevant because it’s quite recent, but it’s the only E-V13 result on k13 that I could find.

I7498_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE_E1b1b1a1b1a_H3a1 : NE African: 0.47 SSA: 1.02

Distance using modern populations:

Spoiler!

Distance to: I7498_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE_E1b1b1a1b1a_H3a1 _
6.25720385 Lombardy
6.83063687 Piedmont
7.48430357 Swiss_Italian
7.53193202 Swiss-Italian
7.60417648 Spanish_Extremadura
7.76864853 Portuguese
8.30093971 Liguria
8.82534419 Spanish_Murcia
8.92153574 Spanish_Galicia
9.19612962 Veneto
9.24881614 Emilia
9.36865519 Spanish_Valencia
9.40257943 Spanish_Andalucia
9.84419626 Trentino
9.91394977 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
10.38093926 Tuscany
10.67498946 FrenchCorsica
10.77681771 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
10.92390040 Friuli-VG
10.95368431 Spanish_Cataluna
11.98290032 Tuscan
12.66474240 Spanish_Cantabria
13.38974981 Romagna
13.42485754 AostaValley
13.48471357 Spanish_Aragon

EDIT: Found another:

CL38_longobard_north_italy (895 CE): NE Africa: 0.96 SSA: 0.66

Distance:

Spoiler!

Distance to: CL38_longobard_north_italy
6.37168737 Greek_Symi_Island
6.97559316 Calabria
7.44006720 Greek_Chios
7.61345519 Sicily
8.07280001 Campania
8.28610282 Malta
8.41152929 Greek_Dodecanese
9.59929164 Sephardic_Jewish
9.92915404 Apulia
9.92963746 Basilicata
10.24068845 East_Sicilian
10.49715676 Molise
10.66773172 Central_Greek
10.83117261 Greek_Andros_Island
11.05079635 Abruzzo
12.11841161 Italian_Jewish
12.83231857 West_Sicilian
13.08016819 Algerian_Jewish
13.13192674 Moroccan_Jew
13.22680233 Turk_Cypriot
13.58766352 Tunisian_Jewish
13.76693503 Ashkenazi
14.01965763 Greek_Cappadocian
14.43050242 Libyan_Jewish
14.73810368 Turk_Burgas

Yeah, that sample is mostly Neolithic farmer(Barcin) which is no surprise given the age and location it was found. That area in that time has been mixing with Neolithics for quite a while and whatever was there before would only show up weakly in the dominant Neolithic+ WHG genes. There is significant Morocco late neolithic admixture in one of the Cardial samples though. As in some of the Cucuteni-Tryppilian samples, where E-V13 was also found. I made this table:

https://imgur.com/3etnFsH

Don't think it means much but other neolithic farmers in Europe don't score such a high score.

[Ion Basescul]

I’m just looking at some rn using k13:

E-M78

Tarofalt3_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 29.38 SSA: 10.85
Tarofalt4_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 31.20 SSA: 9.68
Tarofalt5_Iberomaurasian: NE African: 29.45 SSA: 11.03

E-L618

I3948_Croatia_Cardial_N_7860_ybp: NE African: 0 SSA: 0

Distance using modern populations

Spoiler!

Distance to: I3948_Croatia_Cardial_N_7860_ybp
22.61021008 Sardinian
22.97746722 Sardinia
30.28674463 Algerian_Jewish
32.30964871 Italian_Jewish
32.51606987 Moroccan_Jew
33.45297296 Algerian
34.21497625 FrenchCorsica
34.28368271 Greek_Symi_Island
34.39513192 Tunisian
34.40450152 Greek_Dodecanese
34.50392586 Sephardic_Jewish
34.71593150 Libyan_Jewish
34.73218392 Calabria
34.81500969 West_Sicilian
34.84451607 Moroccan
34.97231619 Tunisian_Jewish
35.10109258 Mozabite_Berber
35.37707167 Malta
35.62446070 East_Sicilian
35.71989362 Sicily
35.87634876 Apulia
36.04751586 Ashkenazi
36.24512381 Campania
36.34523628 Molise
36.62603173 Central_Greek

And this one may not be as relevant because it’s quite recent, but it’s the only E-V13 result on k13 that I could find.

I7498_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE_E1b1b1a1b1a_H3a1 : NE African: 0.47 SSA: 1.02

Distance using modern populations:

Spoiler!

Distance to: I7498_Muslim_Iberian_1000_1100_CE_E1b1b1a1b1a_H3a1 _
6.25720385 Lombardy
6.83063687 Piedmont
7.48430357 Swiss_Italian
7.53193202 Swiss-Italian
7.60417648 Spanish_Extremadura
7.76864853 Portuguese
8.30093971 Liguria
8.82534419 Spanish_Murcia
8.92153574 Spanish_Galicia
9.19612962 Veneto
9.24881614 Emilia
9.36865519 Spanish_Valencia
9.40257943 Spanish_Andalucia
9.84419626 Trentino
9.91394977 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
10.38093926 Tuscany
10.67498946 FrenchCorsica
10.77681771 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
10.92390040 Friuli-VG
10.95368431 Spanish_Cataluna
11.98290032 Tuscan
12.66474240 Spanish_Cantabria
13.38974981 Romagna
13.42485754 AostaValley
13.48471357 Spanish_Aragon

EDIT: Found another:

CL38_longobard_north_italy (895 CE): NE Africa: 0.96 SSA: 0.66

Distance:

Spoiler!

Distance to: CL38_longobard_north_italy
6.37168737 Greek_Symi_Island
6.97559316 Calabria
7.44006720 Greek_Chios
7.61345519 Sicily
8.07280001 Campania
8.28610282 Malta
8.41152929 Greek_Dodecanese
9.59929164 Sephardic_Jewish
9.92915404 Apulia
9.92963746 Basilicata
10.24068845 East_Sicilian
10.49715676 Molise
10.66773172 Central_Greek
10.83117261 Greek_Andros_Island
11.05079635 Abruzzo
12.11841161 Italian_Jewish
12.83231857 West_Sicilian
13.08016819 Algerian_Jewish
13.13192674 Moroccan_Jew
13.22680233 Turk_Cypriot
13.58766352 Tunisian_Jewish
13.76693503 Ashkenazi
14.01965763 Greek_Cappadocian
14.43050242 Libyan_Jewish
14.73810368 Turk_Burgas

Are yous not aware that E-V13 has been found in Iron Age Moldova?

Distance to:	scy197_Moldova_Scythian.SG_1650_ybp
6.87866266	Albanian_north_Albania
7.29365478	Vlach_Central-Macedonia
7.64342855	Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-East
7.69003251	Albanian_Kosovo
7.71172484	Albanian_Albania
7.80235862	Albanian
7.81294439	Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
8.14415128	Albanian_central_Albania
8.32019831	Tuscany
8.68545336	Albanian_Macedonia
8.75502142	Romagna
8.80964490	Kosovo_Albanian
9.07295983	Albanian_south_Albania
9.07667340	Greek_Western-Thrace
9.21926244	Vlach_North-Macedonia
9.23403487	FrenchCorsica
9.39195933	Albanian_Montenegro
9.45345440	Emilia
9.46202410	Tuscan
9.54204381	Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-Central
9.55164384	Greek_Thessaly
9.60281729	Greek_Central-Macedonia
9.68273722	Lazio
9.99962999	Umbria
10.20947599	Marche

[Daos777]

Are yous not aware that E-V13 has been found in Iron Age Moldova?

Distance to:	scy197_Moldova_Scythian.SG_1650_ybp
6.87866266	Albanian_north_Albania
7.29365478	Vlach_Central-Macedonia
7.64342855	Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-East
7.69003251	Albanian_Kosovo
7.71172484	Albanian_Albania
7.80235862	Albanian
7.81294439	Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
8.14415128	Albanian_central_Albania
8.32019831	Tuscany
8.68545336	Albanian_Macedonia
8.75502142	Romagna
8.80964490	Kosovo_Albanian
9.07295983	Albanian_south_Albania
9.07667340	Greek_Western-Thrace
9.21926244	Vlach_North-Macedonia
9.23403487	FrenchCorsica
9.39195933	Albanian_Montenegro
9.45345440	Emilia
9.46202410	Tuscan
9.54204381	Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-Central
9.55164384	Greek_Thessaly
9.60281729	Greek_Central-Macedonia
9.68273722	Lazio
9.99962999	Umbria
10.20947599	Marche

Yeah that E-V13 sample is just one of the many that Indo-Europeans assimilated from Cucuteni-Trypillian. I


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ion Basescul]

Yeah, that sample is mostly Neolithic farmer(Barcin) which is no surprise given the age and location it was found. That area in that time has been mixing with Neolithics for quite a while and whatever was there before would only show up weakly in the dominant Neolithic+ WHG genes. There is significant Morocco late neolithic admixture in one of the Cardial samples though. As in some of the Cucuteni-Tryppilian samples, where E-V13 was also found. I made this table:

https://imgur.com/3etnFsH

Don't think it means much but other neolithic farmers in Europe don't score such a high score.

All E-V13 to date according to haplogroup.info
We don't have the Global 25 data for 3 E-V13 Hungarian Conquerors, a viking from Denmark, a medieval from Germany and a medieval from Sardinia.

[Jana]

Are yous not aware that E-V13 has been found in Iron Age Moldova?

Distance to:	scy197_Moldova_Scythian.SG_1650_ybp
6.87866266	Albanian_north_Albania
7.29365478	Vlach_Central-Macedonia
7.64342855	Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-East
7.69003251	Albanian_Kosovo
7.71172484	Albanian_Albania
7.80235862	Albanian
7.81294439	Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
8.14415128	Albanian_central_Albania
8.32019831	Tuscany
8.68545336	Albanian_Macedonia
8.75502142	Romagna
8.80964490	Kosovo_Albanian
9.07295983	Albanian_south_Albania
9.07667340	Greek_Western-Thrace
9.21926244	Vlach_North-Macedonia
9.23403487	FrenchCorsica
9.39195933	Albanian_Montenegro
9.45345440	Emilia
9.46202410	Tuscan
9.54204381	Torbeshi_North-Macedonia-Central
9.55164384	Greek_Thessaly
9.60281729	Greek_Central-Macedonia
9.68273722	Lazio
9.99962999	Umbria
10.20947599	Marche

Daco-Getae sample? That would be my guess.