Y-DNA distribution in North Africa.

[Rocinante]

It's very difficult to associate an haplogroup with a specific ancient people. In the case of U152, it's modern distribution doesn't correlate that well with La Tene:





Its presence in Iberia and given that it peaks in north-central Italy could very well be associated with Roman movements.

I think is more associated with gallo-romans movements, that map might be very unnacurate.

This is better IMHO and in my researches:



Seems to be that U152 arrived alongside the DF27 with the Bell Beakers, but spreaded in a different way, more trending to the East.

[gixajo]

Arab tribes have managed to kept their tradition, culture and heritage alive in North Africa, also their arrival is very detailed documented by various historians. Most of them mixed with local population though, so autosomalic-wise most of them are between 30% and 10% Peninsular Arab admixed (23andMe).

Different colours in J samples could be a way to differentiate J subclades who could come from Jewish people and other populations from Levant/Middle East like Arabs ?

And same for E different colours, to differentiate more native North Africans subclades and those that could come from SSA?

I ask it only, I don´t know a lot about Haplotypes.

[gixajo]

Yeah, in North France or Belgium exist DF27 too cause the Spanish Empire.
So I think that not all haplogroups have to be old, it may also be that you have had them recently.
If there is DF27 in Northern France and Belgium, who doesn't tell you that some U106 or U152 has come to the peninsula because of the Spanish Empire or perhaps also the First French Empire due to the Napoleonic Wars?
For that I think it is better to be more open about it.
It really is fucking complicated to think that from the Bronze Age to the present day a man from that time has always had male children and those children also more male children and so, obviously it is not impossible, however most likely that at one point that be cut. IMHO.

Como te lea un francés o un belga...

[Damião de Góis]

I think is more associated with gallo-romans movements, that map might be very unnacurate.

This is better IMHO and in my researches:



Seems to be that U152 arrived alongside the DF27 with the Bell Beakers, but spreaded in a different way, more trending to the East.

There are several maps, and in all of them it peaks in Italy. But it's all speculation. What i think it's certain is that the peoples that came to Iberia in the Iron Age (all of them) weren't all one haplogroup so it's very difficult to guess which people carried which haplogroup (to Iberia, in this case).

It's also possible that the Iron Age didn't change haplogroups that much in Iberia and the R1b haplogroups being discussed were already here. Sampling is very few so far.

[gixajo]

¿Qué pasaría? U152 también tiene relevancia en esos países. en Bélgica sobretodo en Valonia. Evidentemente la presencia Francesa/Gala.

Por lo de que es herencia española, no les gusta encontrar ninguna herencia ni relación con nosotros, y aunque la haya, cierran los ojos y tratan de no verla.

Tuve muchas discusiones con varios de ellos por cuestiones semejantes, se tapan los oidos con las manos , cierran los ojos y se ponen a cantar en alto para no oirte.

[gixajo]

There are several maps, and in all of them it peaks in Italy. But it's all speculation. What i think it's certain is that the peoples that came to Iberia in the Iron Age (all of them) weren't all one haplogroup so it's very difficult to guess which people carried which haplogroup (to Iberia, in this case).

It's also possible that the Iron Age didn't change haplogroups that much in Iberia and the R1b haplogroups being discussed were already here. Sampling is very few so far.

Bronze age "invaders" impact in native Haplogroups was quite heavy, isn´t it? Specially in Y Dna haplos.

[gixajo]

Quizás en este foro, pero seguramente en vida real les sude la polla al respecto. No pueden hacer nada, lo dicho, es como si me voy a Rusia y tuviese nacionalidad Rusa, seré ruso a los ojos de la ley pero voy a seguir siendo de dónde provengo. Un francés va a ser un francés, pero si tiene un haplogrupo que mayormente tienen los Ibéricos (no precisamente tiene que ser el mismo subclade) pues eso es por alguna razón, no tenemos una máquina del tiempo para averiguar los acontecimientos. También vete a saber todo lo que la Historia nos ha ocultado.

Sí, pero es que a este foro entra gente muy... "especial", por decirlo de alguna forma.

Pocas opiniones y temas que se leen aquí importan una mierda a nadie fuera de aquí, nos convertimos en una especie de frikies, y cada país o etnia tiene sus propias obesiones.

[Damião de Góis]

Bronze age "invaders" impact in native Haplogroups was quite heavy, isn´t it? Specially in Y Dna haplos.

Yeah, but Bronze Age isn't Romans, Celts, Germanic Tribes, Moors, etc. Peoples the people like to bring up when discussing haplogroups. The people that carried different haplogroups to the peninsula were probably much less glamorous.

[Adamm]

Different colours in J samples could be a way to differentiate J subclades who could come from Jewish people and other populations from Levant/Middle East like Arabs ?

And same for E different colours, to differentiate more native North Africans subclades and those that could come from SSA?

I ask it only, I don´t know a lot about Haplotypes.

Dark blue: Indigenous E-M183 subclade
Light blue: Indigenous E-PF2431 subclade
Red color: (foreign) R1b/R1a with their subclades (i will edit this to distinguish r1b from r1a in color)
Purple color: E-M78 with its subclade E-V13 (foreign) and E-V65 (indigenous)
Dark green: (foreign) G haplogroup with its subclades
Light green: (foreign) J2 with its subclades
Yellow: (foreign) J1 with its subclades
Very light blue: (foreign) I with its subclades

[Luso]

I think Z225 is native iberian? My theory as it’s far west Iberia