Dodecad k12b West, Central & South Asian results Vol. 2

[Leto]

@Leto

Good proxy for Seljuks

The sample is 55% EE, so if that were their average, modern Anatolian Turks should be 10-25% Oghuz (ca. 20% on avg).
I personally do not think they could have been less than 40%. Probably between Uzbeks and Kazakhs. Kinda like Karakalpaks today.

Karakalpakstan on the map which is in Uzbek, I suppose

[Kyp]

The sample is 55% EE, so if that were their average, modern Anatolian Turks should be 10-25% Oghuz (ca. 20% on avg).
I personally do not think they could have been less than 40%. Probably between Uzbeks and Kazakhs. Kinda like Karakalpaks today.

Karakalpakstan on the map which is in Uzbek, I suppose

I think so too. Some closer to Kazakh some closer to Uzbek.

Target: Kyp_Father(Azeri)
Distance: 1.7951% / 1.79506147
37.4 Iranian
24.2 Anatolian
20.0 Caucasus
14.0 Kara_Khanid
3.4 AASI
1.0 Levantine

[Leto]

I think so too. Some closer to Kazakh some closer to Uzbek.

Target: Kyp_Father(Azeri)
Distance: 1.7951% / 1.79506147
37.4 Iranian
24.2 Anatolian
20.0 Caucasus
14.0 Kara_Khanid
3.4 AASI
1.0 Levantine

Is that a Gedmatch-based calc? Run Ulash please
Ulash(Turkish+Kyrgyz+Kazakh),13.61,10.96,0.23,2.35 ,11.39,12.22,0.75,0.14,7.81,19.73,20.82,0

[Kyp]

Is that a Gedmatch-based calc? Run Ulash please
Ulash(Turkish+Kyrgyz+Kazakh),13.63,11.03,0,2.3,11. 4,12.2,0,0,7.8,19.68,20.8,0

I think it doesnt work as the model is for West Asia

Target: Ulash(Turkish+Kyrgyz+Kazakh)
Distance: 3.2392% / 3.23919522
33.2 Kara_Khanid
16.6 Mongolian
15.2 Anatolian
12.8 Celtic/Germanic
12.6 Caucasus
9.4 Arab
0.2 AASI

[Bender1999]

I disagree. Oghuz were too numerous and diverse, also there are different theories about the origin of several Oghuz tribes.i think between 30-50% east eurasian is realistic, but less 30 and around and more than 50% were rare. That is the first Karachanid result(and only?) i have seen, they weren’t Oghuz in my knowledge. Xiognu/Göktürk samples also ranged between 30-50%. Early Ottomans were between 20-40% east eurasian.
In the other hand nowadays Karluks(Karachanid were Karluk) are maybe resembling to Prototurks, so i wouldn’t say that there is no possibility that Oghuz were maybe more mongoloid than many think now. I cautiously tend more the my first sentences.

[Aren]

I disagree. Oghuz were too numerous and diverse, also there are different theories about the origin of several Oghuz tribes.i think between 30-50% east eurasian is realistic, but less 30 and around and more than 50% were rare. That is the first Karachanid result(and only?) i habe seen, they weren’t Oghuz in my knowledge. Xiognu/Göktürk samples also ranged between 30-50%. Early Ottomans were between 20-40% east eurasian.
In the other hand nowadays Karluks(Karachanud were Karluk) are maybe resembling to Prototurks, so i wouldn’t say that there is no possibility that Oghuz were maybe more mongoloid than many think now. I cautiously tend more the my first sentences.

We have two early Ottoman Turkic genomes so far, one unadmixed and one admixed with Anatolians. The unadmixed woman is 45-50% East Eurasian, she is very similar to the Karluk samples.

[Leto]

We have two early Ottoman Turkic genomes so far, one unadmixed and one admixed with Anatolians. The unadmixed woman is 45-50% East Eurasian, she is very similar to the Karluk samples.

Is it on Gedmatch? I'd like to see it.
EDIT: it is.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...toman+Gedmatch

Gedrosia 11.62
Siberian 22.95
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 6.87
North_European 19.68
South_Asian -
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 0.75
East_Asian 24.61
Caucasus 13.41
Sub_Saharan 0.13

[Leto]

The Kara-Khanid sample is actually almost the same as the Ottoman one. Only some minor differences but still could belong to one ethnic group easily.

[Bender1999]

We have two early Ottoman Turkic genomes so far, one unadmixed and one admixed with Anatolians. The unadmixed woman is 45-50% East Eurasian, she is very similar to the Karluk samples.

Yes the first one was mixed, but the another one was also haplogroup O in my knowledge and wasn’t over 40%. My point was that we don’t really have old Oghuz samples, and i really doubt that they were around 50%. Even Xiognu/ Göktürks samples were between 30-50 %, most of them were around 40%, here was said that early Seljuks werent under 40% east eurasian. I was against this, i didn’t want to say they were similar to nowadays Oghuz. They were probably like Afghan Turkmens/Uzbeks, with different components. One Göktürk had 3-5 SSA, for instance. We have just few old Turkic samples and some show weird results.

[Aren]

Yes the first one was mixed, but the another one was also haplogroup O in my knowledge and wasn’t over 40%. My point was that we don’t really have old Oghuz samples, and i really doubt that they were around 50%. Even Xiognu/ Göktürks samples were between 30-50 %, most of them were around 40%, here was said that early Seljuks werent under 40% east eurasian. I was against this, i didn’t want to say they were similar to nowadays Oghuz. They were probably like Afghan Turkmens/Uzbeks, with different components. One Göktürk had 3-5 SSA, for instance. We have just few old Turkic samples and some show weird results.

No, she was a woman so no YDNA there ofc. And she was 45-50% East Eurasian, Leto posted her K12b. For now she is the best proxy for the EE in modern day Anatolian Turks since she actually was found in Anatolia during the early Ottoman era.