Dodecad k12b West, Central & South Asian results Vol. 2

[Bender1999]

I know that kit. Yes, slightly higher North European. Otherwise nothing unusual. They range between 15 and 25% Mongoloid but these are the extremes, the vast majority would be 18-22%. I'm too lazy to run the oracle.

How mongoloid are Siberian Tatars, do you know?

[Leto]

How mongoloid are Siberian Tatars, do you know?

45% according to the Balanovsky et al paper. It realistically puts the Kazan Tatars at 20% and the Mishars (Western Tatars) at 17%. However they claim Bashkirs can range from 26 to 40% depending on the region (Southern Bashkirs are said to be the most Mongoloid).
I've seen only one possible Siberian Tatar Gedmatch, they're very rare and largely assimilated by now. The Soviet government basically said they were just Tatars and never treated them as a separate ethnic group.

[Leto]

She scores good amount of north Euro and other caucasoid components. But she looks more Asian influenced in that photo. Tatars have diverse looks. They have mainly Turanid-Uralid-Volgid and Baltic-Nordic types. Even sometimes dinarid and Pontid.

Yes, correct. Anything from Uzbek to Finnish looks. Caucasian-like or Turkish-like phenotypes can be found too.

I believe in Turkey the Mongoloid is way less pronounced. Maybe because it's 10% on average and not 20% but also because the Turkish West Eurasian basis is predominantly Southern Caucasoid and not Northern (Baltic-Nordic). Sharper features, bigger, more prominent noses, less prominent cheekbones and things like that.

[Bender1999]

45% according to the Balanovsky et al paper. It realistically puts the Kazan Tatars at 20% and the Mishars (Western Tatars) at 17%. However they claim Bashkirs can range from 26 to 40% depending on the region (Southern Bashkirs are said to be the most Mongoloid).
I've seen only one possible Siberian Tatar Gedmatch, they're very rare and largely assimilated by now. The Soviet government basically said they were just Tatars and never treated them as a separate ethnic group.

Bashkir results also seem to be rare, i think they are more Turkic than for example Cuvashes which are heavily Ugric influenced. I don’t know how their east eurasian composition look like, but i think they are more related to Proto Turks, genetically.

[Leto]

Bashkir results also seem to be rare, i think they are more Turkic than for example Cuvashes which are heavily Ugric influenced. I don’t know how their east eurasian composition look like, but i think they are more related to Proto Turks, genetically.

Well, there is a dozen of Bashkir kits, they were used for creating the average.

Bashkir,10.27,23.64,0.15,1.07,8,30.73,1.87,0.01,0.49,16.51,7.24,0.01

I think they are Turkic, Iranic and Ugric/Samoyedic, something like that. But in looks and culture they do seem more Turkic than the Tatars.

[Amon]

Crimean coast Tatar + Karaite

Gedrosia 11.59 Pct
Siberian 1.73 Pct
Northwest_African 0.89 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 16.48 Pct
North_European 11.32 Pct
South_Asian 1.83 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 14.68 Pct
East_Asian 1.16 Pct
Caucasus 40.31 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

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I subtracted and procured these results for a Karaite (on Eurogenes K13)

 Karaite,1.24908,0.45372,10.76096,29.14592,42.73424,10.55596,3.47844,0.55416,0.10616,0.12256,0.2668,0.54224,0.02944

Distance to: Karaite
1.62793316 Iraqi_Jew
1.76410996 Kurdish_Jewish
4.62875542 Mandean
5.10786468 Assyrian_South
5.15675425 Assyrian_West
5.61822392 Assyrian_North

Target: Karaite
Distance: 0.2441% / 0.24410060 | ADC: 0.25x
61.6 Kurdish_Jewish
25.8 Iraqi_Jew
7.4 Lebanese_Druze
3.6 Lebanese_Muslim
1.0 Nusayri
0.4 Lebanese_Christian
0.2 Palestinian

 Tatar_coast,17.57092,14.22628,17.21904,16.59408,23.26576,2.58404,2.64156,3.32584,3.55384,-0.12256,-0.2668,-0.54224,-0.02944

Distance to: Tatar_coast
5.39732163 Turk_Burgas
5.87371398 Turk_Crete
6.03946083 Turk_Edirne
6.18146869 Turk_Balkan_average
6.65611069 Turk_Kazanlik
6.83210368 Greek_Macedonia_Thrace
7.12827395 Greek_Istanbul
7.57915647 Greek_West_Macedonia

Target: Tatar_coast
Distance: 1.5204% / 1.52044279 | ADC: 0.25x
30.4 Turk_Edirne
27.4 Turk_Burgas
25.2 Turk_Kazanlik
12.8 Greek_Athens
1.8 Greek_Macedonia_Thrace
1.6 Greek_Western-Thrace
0.8 Cambodian

[Leto]

How did you subtract the results from Eurogenes K13? Also, I had the Coastal Tatar deleted from Vahaduo because only one individual is not an average, that is not serious.

[Amon]

How did you subtract the results from Eurogenes K13? Also, I had the Coastal Tatar deleted from Vahaduo because only one individual is not an average, that is not serious.

I chose a set of references (Mesopotamian + Levantine for Karaite and Balkan Turks + Greeks for Tatar) and subtracted 50% MENA ancestry. What remained came out like I anticipated!

[RatCat]

3 daughters and 1 father. Father is Circassian and daughters are Half Circassian + Half German or German American. They are sisters probably.


Father (Circassian)

Population
Gedrosia 17.84 Pct
Siberian 3.12 Pct
Northwest_African 0.22 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 6.58 Pct
North_European 15.40 Pct
South_Asian 0.09 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 5.35 Pct
East_Asian 1.06 Pct
Caucasus 50.32 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

Distance to: Talih
4.01256776 Ossetian
4.05975369 Circassian
6.96222666 Abkhazian
7.52804091 Kumyks
7.81966751 Karachay
8.14750268 Balkar
8.25786897 Ingush
9.43305889 Turk_Ahiska
10.53467133 Georgian_Gurian
10.61868165 Georgian_Svan
10.81755980 Chechen
11.81074087 Udi_Azerbaijan
12.22728506 Turk_East
12.24512964 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
12.53253765 Georgian_Imereti
12.78129101 Georgian_Mingrelian
13.44324738 Armenian_East
13.64427352 Turk_East_Black_Sea
13.99759979 Georgian_Turkey
14.16546152 Laz
14.40951075 Hemshin
14.45201716 Azerbaijani_Turkey
14.75965108 Georgian_Adjara
15.07602733 Turk_Central_East
15.37296653 Turk_Central_Black_Sea

Target: Talih
Distance: 1.1368% / 1.13675158 | ADC: 0.25x
67.0 Ossetian
18.6 Abkhazian
9.2 Greek_Cappadocia
5.2 Georgian_Gurian

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Person 1 (Half Circassian + Half German/German American)

(I have her photos anyone interested can pm me for them)

Population
Gedrosia 12.55 Pct
Siberian 1.99 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 22.04 Pct
North_European 32.21 Pct
South_Asian -
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 2.70 Pct
East_Asian -
Caucasus 28.49 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 55.7% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) + 44.3% Balkars (Yunusbayev) @ 2.93
2 55% Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) + 45% Adygei (HGDP) @ 2.96
3 52.7% Kent (1000Genomes) + 47.3% Balkars (Yunusbayev) @ 2.99
4 52% Kent (1000Genomes) + 48% Adygei (HGDP) @ 3
5 53.3% Dutch (Dodecad) + 46.7% Adygei (HGDP) @ 3

Target: Hulya
Distance: 2.5756% / 2.57561578 | ADC: 0.25x
44.6 Macedonian
28.0 Dargin
20.4 MD_Gagauz
6.6 Bavarian_German
0.4 HUN_Szekely

Distance to: Hulya
7.69302931 Turk_Bulgaria
7.92376804 Turk_Romania
8.15346552 MD_Gagauz
8.95528336 Bulgarian_East
9.25490681 Greek_Macedonia
9.56752842 Bulgarian_Central
9.74917432 Turk_Macedonia
9.85637865 Pomak
9.91808953 Bulgarian_West
9.92645959 Turk_Greece
9.93884299 MD_South
10.53108731 Romanian
10.57563710 Macedonian
11.04013134 Bulgarian_Thrace

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Person 2 ( Half Circassian + Half German)

(I have her photos too.)

Population
Gedrosia 10.98 Pct
Siberian 2.95 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 19.68 Pct
North_European 32.90 Pct
South_Asian 0.46 Pct
East_African 0.18 Pct
Southwest_Asian 3.13 Pct
East_Asian -
Caucasus 29.71 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 51.3% Dutch (Dodecad) + 48.7% Balkars (Yunusbayev) @ 3.83
2 55.7% German (Dodecad) + 44.3% Balkars (Yunusbayev) @ 3.9
3 51.8% Dutch (Dodecad) + 48.2% North_Ossetians (Yunusbayev) @ 3.97
4 56.2% German (Dodecad) + 43.8% North_Ossetians (Yunusbayev) @ 3.99
5 50.4% German (Dodecad) + 49.6% Kumyks (Yunusbayev) @ 4.01

Distance to: kristal
7.53775829 Turk_Bulgaria
8.68436526 Turk_Romania
8.85743191 MD_Gagauz
9.43748907 Bulgarian_East
9.94048289 Greek_Macedonia
10.03703642 Pomak
10.06862950 Bulgarian_Central
10.21357430 Turk_Greece
10.25864026 Turk_Macedonia
10.49298813 Bulgarian_West
10.57082305 MD_South
11.28234461 Romanian
11.48822876 Macedonian
11.51109899 Bulgarian_Thrace

Target: kristal
Distance: 2.8355% / 2.83546682 | ADC: 0.25x
32.4 MD_Center
20.4 Bulgarian_West
20.4 Dargin
11.4 MD_Gagauz
8.2 Turk_Bulgaria
6.8 Ossetian
0.4 Nogai

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Person 3 (Half Circassian + Half German/German American)

Population
Gedrosia 12.41 Pct
Siberian 0.40 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 22.10 Pct
North_European 32.01 Pct
South_Asian -
East_African 0.10 Pct
Southwest_Asian 2.75 Pct
East_Asian 1.89 Pct
Caucasus 28.28 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

Distance to: talihna
7.55340321 Turk_Bulgaria
7.71361783 Turk_Romania
8.00827072 MD_Gagauz
8.82472096 Bulgarian_East
9.06317273 Greek_Macedonia
9.41366029 Bulgarian_Central
9.68935498 Pomak
9.70887223 Turk_Macedonia
9.75960040 Turk_Greece
9.80454486 Bulgarian_West
9.83195810 MD_South
10.40113455 Romanian

Target: talihna
Distance: 2.7812% / 2.78117187 | ADC: 0.25x
46.4 Macedonian
26.8 Dargin
20.4 MD_Gagauz
6.0 Bavarian_German
0.4 Korean

[Leto]

I chose a set of references (Mesopotamian + Levantine for Karaite and Balkan Turks + Greeks for Tatar) and subtracted 50% MENA ancestry. What remained came out like I anticipated!

So you're suggesting Karaites were pretty much unmixed Babylonian Jews?