Proto-Bulgars were an Irano-Caucasian people(?)

[xripkan]

It seems that Bulgarians are modelled not just as Thracian+Slavic but they need an extra Irano-Caucasian reference.


Target: Bulgarian
Distance: 2.2213% / 0.02221322
50.2 BGR_IA
33.2 HUN_Avar_Szolad
16.6 CZE_Early_Slav


Target: Bulgarian
Distance: 1.3949% / 0.01394875
42.6 BGR_IA
42.6 HUN_Avar_Szolad
14.8 RUS_Alan_MA

Alan_MA reference is a mix of Sarmatians and native Caucasians. If instead of Alan I use Western Scythians and pure Caucasians the distance is even smaller


Target: Bulgarian
Distance: 1.2370% / 0.01236978
42.6 BGR_IA
35.0 HUN_Avar_Szolad
14.8 Scythian_UKR
7.6 Georgian_Imer

Target: Bulgarian
Distance: 1.5536% / 0.01553649
52.0 BGR_IA
35.8 HUN_Avar_Szolad
12.2 Sarmatian_RUS_Caucasus

It seems quite possible that Proto-Bulgars were similar to Medieval Alans and Sarmatians who lived near Cauacsus and not a Turkic people.

[Mingle]

How do we know it's not influence from Anatolian Greeks? Do we also need these "Irano-Caucasian" components when modeling the neighbors of Bulgarians like North Greeks, South Romanians, and Serbs?

Also, it's "Caucasian", not "Irano-Caucasian". All groups in that region had similar genetics regardless of the language that they spoke. They spoke Turkic language and Turkic doesn't only refer to Proto-Turks, so "Turko-Caucasian" is more accurate.

[xripkan]

How do we know it's not influence from Anatolian Greeks? Do we also need these "Irano-Caucasian" components when modeling the neighbors of Bulgarians like North Greeks, South Romanians, and Serbs?

Also, it's "Caucasian", not "Irano-Caucasian". All groups in that region had similar genetics regardless of the language that they spoke. They spoke Turkic language and Turkic doesn't only refer to Proto-Turks, so "Turko-Caucasian" is more accurate.

Check the models

Target: Bulgarian
Distance: 1.6471% / 0.01647125
52.0 BGR_IA
36.2 HUN_Avar_Szolad
11.8 Sarmatian_RUS_Urals

Target: Bulgarian
Distance: 1.6018% / 0.01601791
51.6 BGR_IA
36.4 HUN_Avar_Szolad
12.0 Sarmatian_KAZ

Target: Bulgarian
Distance: 1.4366% / 0.01436589
49.2 BGR_IA
38.6 HUN_Avar_Szolad
12.2 KAZ_Turk_o

Target: Bulgarian
Distance: 1.8061% / 0.01806104
51.0 BGR_IA
43.4 HUN_Avar_Szolad
5.6 KAZ_Turk

They are modelled better with Iranic rather with Turkic ancestry.

Target: Bulgarian
Distance: 1.1932% / 0.01193174
44.2 HUN_Avar_Szolad
32.0 BGR_IA
19.0 Greek_Central_Anatolia
4.8 Sarmatian_RUS_Urals

Target: Greek_Central_Macedonia
Distance: 1.2499% / 0.01249901
37.8 BGR_IA
33.4 HUN_Avar_Szolad
28.6 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.2 Sarmatian_RUS_Urals

Target: Bulgarian
Distance: 1.1370% / 0.01137012
46.8 HUN_Avar_Szolad
30.2 BGR_IA
20.2 Greek_Central_Anatolia
2.8 KAZ_Turk



Target: Greek_Central_Macedonia
Distance: 1.2340% / 0.01234043
39.0 BGR_IA
32.6 HUN_Avar_Szolad
27.4 Greek_Central_Anatolia
1.0 KAZ_Turk

So you would say Bulgarians have 20% Anatolian Greek ancestry? Do you think it is valid? Even if it is valid what about the rest ancestry? Only 2-3% is the Proto-Bulgar ancestry of modern Bulgarians?
They score even with the Greek Anatolian reference about 5% early Uralic Sarmatian ancestry which lacks from Northern Greeks.

[Kaspias]

Not really, because the same goes for the rest of South Slavs. We need something to make Bulgarians special compared to the rest, yet there is no except known "Eastern" shift.

[War Chef]

Byzantine influence explains it.

[xripkan]

Not really, because the same goes for the rest of South Slavs. We need something to make Bulgarians special compared to the rest, yet there is no except known "Eastern" shift.

Bulgarian and Romanians have some BMAC ancestry

Target: Croatian
Distance: 1.3217% / 0.01321655
73.4 HUN_Avar_Szolad
22.4 BGR_IA
3.6 Georgian_Imer
0.6 TKM_Gonur1_BA

Target: Montenegrin
Distance: 1.2654% / 0.01265405
58.6 HUN_Avar_Szolad
30.4 BGR_IA
10.2 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.8 TKM_Gonur1_BA

Target: Romanian
Distance: 1.3907% / 0.01390689
51.4 HUN_Avar_Szolad
41.4 BGR_IA
4.4 TKM_Gonur1_BA
2.2 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.6 Georgian_Imer

Target: Serbian
Distance: 1.4371% / 0.01437123
57.0 HUN_Avar_Szolad
31.8 BGR_IA
9.2 Greek_Central_Anatolia
1.2 Georgian_Imer
0.8 TKM_Gonur1_BA

Target: Greek_Central_Macedonia
Distance: 1.2500% / 0.01250032
37.6 BGR_IA
33.6 HUN_Avar_Szolad
28.8 Greek_Central_Anatolia

Target: Bulgarian
Distance: 1.2227% / 0.01222679
47.2 HUN_Avar_Szolad
36.4 BGR_IA
11.8 Greek_Central_Anatolia
4.2 TKM_Gonur1_BA
0.4 Georgian_Imer

[xripkan]

Byzantine influence explains it.

We don't have any sources mentioning Byzantine settlements from Anatolia in Bulgaria. On the other hand we know that a people northern of Caucasus and Pontic Steppes moved to Eastern Balkans in Middle Ages. The people that were living in that area were of Irano-Caucasian stock.
There are three sources for the Bulgarian ancestry as we know. We have clarified the genetic profile for two of these sources.
If proto-Bulgars were a Turkic people Bulgarians would be similar to Balkan Turks.

[xripkan]

Not really, because the same goes for the rest of South Slavs. We need something to make Bulgarians special compared to the rest, yet there is no except known "Eastern" shift.

Greek Macedonians score high Alan because they need a West Asian element to be modelled. What I think is that Balkans and even more Eastern Balkans have Scytho-Sarmatian ancestry. So if Proto-Bulgars were similar to these people, we can find such admixture in Balkans.

[bained]

That's exactly what the preliminary results show: 50% Caucasus and 50% steppe. I can't find a translation in English for you, but here is the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzAL0ssXwgc

[War Chef]

We don't have any sources mentioning Byzantine settlements from Anatolia in Bulgaria. On the other hand we know that a people northern of Caucasus and Pontic Steppes moved to Eastern Balkans in Middle Ages. The people that were living in that area were of Irano-Caucasian stock.
There are three sources for the Bulgarian ancestry as we know. We have clarified the genetic profile for two of these sources.
If proto-Bulgars were a Turkic people Bulgarians would be similar to Balkan Turks.

lol? Marcianoplis, Philipopolis etc.