Dodecad k12b West, Central & South Asian results Vol. 3

[reboun]

I find very interesting that Turkish results are not genetically very far from each other. I used to know that we are far more heterogeneous than that.

[Leto]

I have a Syrian Muslim too, J-M267. He might be from Aleppo too

Gedrosia 14.97 Pct
Siberian -
Northwest_African 3.05 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 13.29 Pct
North_European 5.88 Pct
South_Asian 1.76 Pct
East_African 3.99 Pct
Southwest_Asian 18.55 Pct
East_Asian 0.86 Pct
Caucasus 37.65 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

Distance to: Muhye_Dein
2.78287621 Syrian_B
5.55219776 Lebanese_Muslim
5.74193347 Syrian_A
6.88198373 Iraqi_Baghdad
7.55858452 Syrian_C
7.94747130 Nusayri_Turkey
8.84980791 Turk_Southeast
8.94081093 Palestinian
9.63021807 Turkmen_Iraq
9.83625437 Turk_Cyprus

Distance: 1.5274% / 1.52739087
Target: Muhye_Dein | ADC: 0.25x RC
32.6 Syrian_B
30.0 Lebanese_Muslim
28.6 Iraqi_Baghdad
6.6 Greek_Macedonia
2.2 Somali

Distance: 2.0205% / 2.02049065
Target: Muhye_Dein | ADC: 0.5x RC
46.6 Syrian_B
28.7 Iraqi_Baghdad
16.1 Syrian_C
8.6 Greek_Peloponnese

@Aren, we can do an Aleppo average. The Syrian averages were made by user Amon whom none of us even knew before. Some sockpuppet-style anonymous account. Not saying everything he did was bad or with ill intentions but I prefer more familiar sources.

[Demhat]

Kurd from Turkey, from Bitlis province (it seems this person has distant Turkish roots):

Gedrosia: 23.69 Pct
Siberian: 1.62 Pct
Northwest_African: -
Southeast_Asian: -
Atlantic_Med: 7.18 Pct
North_European: 10.03 Pct
South_Asian: 1.08 Pct
East_African: 0.15 Pct
Southwest_Asian: 12.36 Pct
East_Asian: 1.81 Pct
Caucasus: 42.08 Pct
Sub_Saharan: -

The East Asian could indicate a distant Turkish ancestor but isn't really high enough imo. Even I score ~2% in some calculators and have no known Turkish ancestor. I have seen a number of Kurds with 2-3% amount of East Asian from different regions. Even few with reaching as high as 5% (those usually do have a distant Turkic ancestor).

But one thing I have noticed is that Kurds from the region between Urmiya/Hakkari, Bitlis in the East and South to Agri, Igdir, Kars in the North to Bingöl generally score slightly higher frequency of "North European". These Kurds are called Serhedi or Botani.

[Aren]

@Aren, we can do an Aleppo average. The Syrian averages were made by user Amon whom none of us even knew before. Some sockpuppet-style anonymous account. Not saying everything he did was bad or with ill intentions but I prefer more familiar sources.

I dislike making averages for one city or specific region when it's not unique in any way. I have some Muslim kits from Latakia and Damascus, maybe it's better to combine them and have an Syrian_West average. Most Syrians I've seen though seem to be somewhere inbetween Syrian_A and Syrian_B with some individual shifts so those averages aren't that bad IMO.

[Demhat]

I have a Syrian Muslim too, J-M267. He might be from Aleppo too

Gedrosia 14.97 Pct
Siberian -
Northwest_African 3.05 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 13.29 Pct
North_European 5.88 Pct
South_Asian 1.76 Pct
East_African 3.99 Pct
Southwest_Asian 18.55 Pct
East_Asian 0.86 Pct
Caucasus 37.65 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

Distance to: Muhye_Dein
2.78287621 Syrian_B
5.55219776 Lebanese_Muslim
5.74193347 Syrian_A
6.88198373 Iraqi_Baghdad
7.55858452 Syrian_C
7.94747130 Nusayri_Turkey
8.84980791 Turk_Southeast
8.94081093 Palestinian
9.63021807 Turkmen_Iraq
9.83625437 Turk_Cyprus

Distance: 1.5274% / 1.52739087
Target: Muhye_Dein | ADC: 0.25x RC
32.6 Syrian_B
30.0 Lebanese_Muslim
28.6 Iraqi_Baghdad
6.6 Greek_Macedonia
2.2 Somali

Distance: 2.0205% / 2.02049065
Target: Muhye_Dein | ADC: 0.5x RC
46.6 Syrian_B
28.7 Iraqi_Baghdad
16.1 Syrian_C
8.6 Greek_Peloponnese

@Aren, we can do an Aleppo average. The Syrian averages were made by user Amon whom none of us even knew before. Some sockpuppet-style anonymous account. Not saying everything he did was bad or with ill intentions but I prefer more familiar sources.

The African admixture among Arabic Semites is so consistent that I have that feeling, some of this ancestry might actually be Arabic/Semite admixture in Africans that get's mislabeled/confused by the calculators. Or it might be simply ancient shared ancestry. If something in genetics is really down to ethnic mixing you generally would not expect that ancestry to be so consistent over the board among almost all speakers.

Maybe it is shared Natufian or Levant_Neo ancestry. Maybe even Arabic admixture into certain African populations. Of course it could also simply be all admixture into the Arabic speaking nations.

[Fedora]

I've seen a Syrian Sunni from Aleppo who was identical to Alawite Syrians.

[Aren]

The African admixture among Arabic Semites is so consistent that I have that feeling, some of this ancestry might actually be Arabic/Semite admixture in Africans that get's mislabeled/confused by the calculators. Or it might be simply ancient shared ancestry. If something in genetics is really down to ethnic mixing you generally would not expect that ancestry to be so consistent over the board among almost all speakers.

Maybe it is shared Natufian or Levant_Neo ancestry. Maybe even Arabic admixture into certain African populations. Of course it could also simply be all admixture into the Arabic speaking nations.

African input does not correlate with Semitic ancestry nor with Natufian for that matter. Khaleeji Arabs have the highest Natufian input but score little to no SSA. There are Kurds, Iranians and Turks with recent African mtdna(L1, L2 etc) but these haplogroups are not present in many non-Muslim Semitic speakers. SSA admixture in West Asia correlates far more with Islam than anything else.

[Demhat]

African input does not correlate with Semitic ancestry nor with Natufian for that matter. Khaleeji Arabs have the highest Natufian input but score little to no SSA. There are Kurds, Iranians and Turks with recent African mtdna(L1, L2 etc) but these haplogroups are not present in many non-Muslim Semitic speakers. SSA admixture in West Asia correlates far more with Islam than anything else.

I wrote specifically Arabic Semites, having Christian Semites in mind. Even very endogamous Arabic speaking or non Aramaic-Christian Semites scrore visible African admixture.

Take Samaritans for example. They score almost 5% Northwest African which makes historically absolutely no sense. I doubt it has anything to do with Islamic expansion.

Or take Yemenite Jews or even Bedouins, who are nomads and generally very endogamous, we are not talking simply about citizens of Arab states here who can be maxed with anything imaginable. Even they score around 8-10% East/Northwest African.

My point is when you consistently find a admixture linked with certain ancestry (Arabian/Levantine). Chances are high a good chunk of it is not really admixture but little more ancient shared ancestry.

Take Turks for example. They too have been effected by the Islamic world and we know a good number of Turks existed with African admixture. However over the whole population it is not a consistent ancestry makes it clearly a better candidate to being real admixture.

I don't doubt that there is African admixture in the Arabic world due to Islamic expansion but I don't believe all of it over the whole region is really admixture.

[Leto]

The Northwest African is not Sub-Saharan, ignore it. Iberians and Italians can score 5% NE African on Dodecad and they're European. Focus on SSA and East African. You can check the Somali and Ethiopian averages for this calculator (updated).

[Kyp]

Zoroastrian from Kerman:


Gedrosian: 30.87
Siberian: 0
Northwest_African: 0
Southeast_Asian: 0
Atlantic_Med: 6.64
North_European: 10.08
South_Asian: 6.31
East_African: 0.00
Southwest_Asian: 11.13
East_Asian: 0.00
Caucasus: 34.84
Sub_Saharan: 0.07

Distance to: Zoroa_Kerman
6.51915639 Iranian_Fars
6.98535611 Iran_Mazandaran
7.67295250 Iran_Khorasan
8.13628908 Iranian
8.85932842 Yazidi
9.31608823 Lur_Iran
10.14589572 Talysh_Azerbaijan
10.30930648 Kurd_Sorani
10.41063399 Kurd_Kurmanji
11.00379026 Kurd_KAZ
11.58585776 Azerbaijani_Iran
11.78129450 Zaza
12.47714711 Azerbaijani
12.57019491 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
13.01853678 Turkmen_Iraq
13.15881074 Parsi_India
13.62802260 Azerbaijani_Turkey
14.21657835 Iran_Bandari
14.97160646 Turkmen_Iran
15.28678514 Lezgin
15.53459687 Turkmen
15.54823141 Turk_Southeast
15.70611664 Tajik_Herat
16.08162927 Udi_Azerbaijan
17.56473456 Iraqi_Baghdad


Distance: 1.2703% / 1.27032217
Target: Zoroa_Kerman | ADC: 0.25x RC
80.0 Iran_Mazandaran
9.0 Balochi
5.5 French
3.8 Mixed_NW_Euro
1.7 Iranian_Fars



Persian from Malayer (Hamedan province):



Gedrosian: 21.36
Siberian: 0.98
Northwest_African: 1.13
Southeast_Asian: 0.00
Atlantic_Med: 8.18
North_European: 12.64
South_Asian: 6.25
East_African: 0.00
Southwest_Asian: 12.14
East_Asian: 0.69
Caucasus: 35.04
Sub_Saharan: 1.58


Distance to: Iranian_Hamedan
7.14819558 Azerbaijani
7.74117562 Azerbaijani_Iran
8.73145463 Azerbaijani_Turkey
8.86913750 Turk_Southeast
8.99912218 Kurd_Kurmanji
9.24224540 Iran_Khorasan
9.31179360 Kurd_Sorani
9.61368816 Yazidi
9.61929831 Iranian_Fars
10.35059419 Turkmen_Iraq
10.38040462 Zaza
10.51371010 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
10.52320769 Talysh_Azerbaijan
11.01708673 Turk_South
11.41347887 Turk_Central_East
11.80772628 Turk_Central_West
12.09508578 Iranian
12.24514598 Lur_Iran
12.94948262 Turk_West_BlackSea
12.99395244 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
13.07074214 Kurd_KAZ
13.12072788 Udi_Azerbaijan
13.12083458 Turk_Southwest
13.24414588 Iraqi_Baghdad
13.57252003 Turkmen_Iran

Distance: 0.8052% / 0.80516815
Target: Iranian_Hamedan | ADC: 0.25x RC
57.0 Kurd_Sorani
21.5 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
7.4 Pomak
5.7 Parsi_India
4.0 Lithuanian
3.0 Pulliyar
1.4 Mandenka