Moldovan/Romanian GEDmatch Results v2

**~~Ion Basescul~~** · 12-27-2020, 04:29 PM

Originally Posted by Dunai

I believe you can take over now in making the Csángó average, these are already some unexpectedly numerous samples for such a small population. Like 5-6 of them could easily even pass as pure Hungarians, also I am wondering how could one of them have 34.11 North Atlantic, that seems kinda surreal for someone in that region?

Yes, they come from inside the Catholic (cyan) villages at the Eastern end in Neamt county, one is half from the Catholic village just outside in Iasi county.
And it is true that they see themselves as Romanians today, have Romanian names and Romanised surnames and most know only Romanian. But they are Catholic and aware of their origins, at least those who tested themselves.
The one with 34% grabbed my attention too when I was looking at it, especially considering the very low East Med value. Made me think of an assimilated Saxon, but the sum of East Asian/Siberian/Amerind. checks out for a full Csango. Perhaps the components are just distributed a bit weirdly. These 10 and those 3 from andre are all tested on 23andme v5, which has a low SNP count.

**Aspirin** · 12-27-2020, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Ion Basescul

Yes, the come from inside the Catholic (cyan) villages at the Eastern end in Neamt county, one is half from the Catholic village just outside in Iasi county.
And it is true that they see themselves as Romanians today, have Romanian names and surnames and most know only Romanian. But they are Catholic and aware of their origins, at least those who tested themselves.
The one with 34% grabbed my attention too when I was looking at it, especially considering the very low East Med value. Made me think of an assimilated Saxon, but the sum of East Asian/Siberian/Amerind. checks out for a full Csango. Perhaps the components are just distributed a bit weirdly. These 10 and those 3 from andre are all tested on 23andme v5, which has a low SNP count.

What are the names of these villages?

**~~Ion Basescul~~** · 12-27-2020, 04:58 PM

Old average with 11 samples

N_Atlantic	Baltic	West_Med	West_Asian	East_Med	Red_Sea	South_Asian	East_Asian	Siberian	Amerindian	Oceanian	NE_African	Sub-Saharan	NE+NW Euro	Med Euro	Caucasus	SW Asia	Siberia	India
27.24	29.36	15.24	7.75	12.53	1.61	1.36	1.45	2.06	0.79	0.44	0.11	0.13	56.60	27.77	7.75	1.72	4.30	1.36

New average with 22 samples

N_Atlantic	Baltic	West_Med	West_Asian	East_Med	Red_Sea	South_Asian	East_Asian	Siberian	Amerindian	Oceanian	NE_African	Sub-Saharan	NE+NW Euro	Med Euro	Caucasus	SW Asia	Siberia	India
27.63	29.38	15.41	8.68	11.06	1.69	0.93	1.12	2.55	0.78	0.52	0.16	0.14	57.01	26.47	8.68	1.85	4.44	0.93

These are the 4 samples that are matching the rest closely and are very likely Catholics too from the same or nearby villages. Again Romanian forenames and Romanised Hungarian surnames, which is typical of Csangos. Autosomal results also support their origin. But I am waiting for the email confirmations.

N_Atlantic	Baltic	West_Med	West_Asian	East_Med	Red_Sea	South_Asian	East_Asian	Siberian	Amerindian	Oceanian	NE_African	Sub-Saharan	Mong.
24.77	32.67	15.87	11.70	9.56	0	0	1.80	2.02	0.81	0.78	0	0	4.63
26.97	32.60	16.01	9.33	7.24	1.73	0.57	1.53	3.10	0.56	0.35	0	0	5.19
31.07	29.72	13.91	6.97	12.29	0	1.39	1.12	2.22	0.87	0	0	0.45	4.21
29.78	28.24	12.95	10.70	11.44	1.28	0.77	0	3.02	1.67	0	0.16	0	4.69

**~~Dunai~~** · 12-27-2020, 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by Ion Basescul

Old average with 11 samples

N_Atlantic	Baltic	West_Med	West_Asian	East_Med	Red_Sea	South_Asian	East_Asian	Siberian	Amerindian	Oceanian	NE_African	Sub-Saharan	NE+NW Euro	Med Euro	Caucasus	SW Asia	Siberia	India
27.24	29.36	15.24	7.75	12.53	1.61	1.36	1.45	2.06	0.79	0.44	0.11	0.13	56.60	27.77	7.75	1.72	4.30	1.36

New average with 22 samples

N_Atlantic	Baltic	West_Med	West_Asian	East_Med	Red_Sea	South_Asian	East_Asian	Siberian	Amerindian	Oceanian	NE_African	Sub-Saharan	NE+NW Euro	Med Euro	Caucasus	SW Asia	Siberia	India
27.63	29.38	15.41	8.68	11.06	1.69	0.93	1.12	2.55	0.78	0.52	0.16	0.14	57.01	26.47	8.68	1.85	4.44	0.93

These are the 4 samples that are matching the rest closely and are very likely Catholics too from the same or nearby villages. Again Romanian forenames and Romanised Hungarian surnames, which is typical of Csangos. Autosomal results also support their origin. But I am waiting for the email confirmations.

N_Atlantic	Baltic	West_Med	West_Asian	East_Med	Red_Sea	South_Asian	East_Asian	Siberian	Amerindian	Oceanian	NE_African	Sub-Saharan	Mong.
24.77	32.67	15.87	11.70	9.56	0	0	1.80	2.02	0.81	0.78	0	0	4.63
26.97	32.60	16.01	9.33	7.24	1.73	0.57	1.53	3.10	0.56	0.35	0	0	5.19
31.07	29.72	13.91	6.97	12.29	0	1.39	1.12	2.22	0.87	0	0	0.45	4.21
29.78	28.24	12.95	10.70	11.44	1.28	0.77	0	3.02	1.67	0	0.16	0	4.69

Very interesting to see how cohesive the average remains even after duplicating the individual sample number. Such high Siberian (+East Asian) truly seems to be a trademark to Csángós.

**Aspirin** · 12-27-2020, 05:18 PM

These Csangos are from northern branch located northern of Roman city, where many of them are of old Hungarian stock.

**Leto** · 12-28-2020, 08:53 PM

A certain Ciobanu which sounds Moldovan to me

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 35.39
2 North_Atlantic 18.92
3 East_Med 14.69
4 West_Med 13.66
5 West_Asian 9.66
6 Red_Sea 4.24
7 Siberian 2.89
8 Oceanian 0.54

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 7.19
2 Croatian 9.52
3 Serbian 10.67
4 Romanian 12.02
5 Bulgarian 12.59
6 Ukrainian_Lviv 12.96
7 Hungarian 13.43
8 Ukrainian 14.2
9 South_Polish 14.88
10 Southwest_Russian 15.57
11 Ukrainian_Belgorod 15.92
12 Polish 17.49
13 Austrian 18.05
14 Russian_Smolensk 18.08
15 Tatar 18.42
16 Estonian_Polish 18.45
17 East_German 18.5
18 Kargopol_Russian 19.22
19 Belorussian 19.24
20 Erzya 19.34

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 68.8% Estonian_Polish + 31.2% Cyprian @ 3.44
2 59.5% Erzya + 40.5% East_Sicilian @ 3.49
3 72.5% Southwest_Russian + 27.5% Cyprian @ 3.53
4 58.5% Erzya + 41.5% Central_Greek @ 3.56
5 51.5% Erzya + 48.5% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.58
6 63.4% Lithuanian + 36.6% Cyprian @ 3.62
7 69.3% Russian_Smolensk + 30.7% Cyprian @ 3.73
8 74.9% Southwest_Russian + 25.1% Samaritan @ 3.89
9 65.3% Erzya + 34.7% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.89
10 62.3% Erzya + 37.7% South_Italian @ 3.9
11 65.6% Erzya + 34.4% Italian_Jewish @ 3.96
12 76.7% Ukrainian + 23.3% Samaritan @ 3.98
13 77.2% Ukrainian + 22.8% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.03
14 68% Kargopol_Russian + 32% Cyprian @ 4.11
15 65.6% Erzya + 34.4% Sephardic_Jewish @ 4.13
16 71.4% Estonian_Polish + 28.6% Samaritan @ 4.13
17 60.1% Erzya + 39.9% Ashkenazi @ 4.14
18 78.9% Ukrainian_Lviv + 21.1% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.14
19 61.4% Bulgarian + 38.6% Erzya @ 4.14
20 71.9% Estonian_Polish + 28.1% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.15

**~~Ion Basescul~~** · 12-29-2020, 12:40 AM

Originally Posted by Leto

A certain Ciobanu which sounds Moldovan to me

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 35.39
2 North_Atlantic 18.92
3 East_Med 14.69
4 West_Med 13.66
5 West_Asian 9.66
6 Red_Sea 4.24
7 Siberian 2.89
8 Oceanian 0.54

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 7.19
2 Croatian 9.52
3 Serbian 10.67
4 Romanian 12.02
5 Bulgarian 12.59
6 Ukrainian_Lviv 12.96
7 Hungarian 13.43
8 Ukrainian 14.2
9 South_Polish 14.88
10 Southwest_Russian 15.57
11 Ukrainian_Belgorod 15.92
12 Polish 17.49
13 Austrian 18.05
14 Russian_Smolensk 18.08
15 Tatar 18.42
16 Estonian_Polish 18.45
17 East_German 18.5
18 Kargopol_Russian 19.22
19 Belorussian 19.24
20 Erzya 19.34

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 68.8% Estonian_Polish + 31.2% Cyprian @ 3.44
2 59.5% Erzya + 40.5% East_Sicilian @ 3.49
3 72.5% Southwest_Russian + 27.5% Cyprian @ 3.53
4 58.5% Erzya + 41.5% Central_Greek @ 3.56
5 51.5% Erzya + 48.5% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.58
6 63.4% Lithuanian + 36.6% Cyprian @ 3.62
7 69.3% Russian_Smolensk + 30.7% Cyprian @ 3.73
8 74.9% Southwest_Russian + 25.1% Samaritan @ 3.89
9 65.3% Erzya + 34.7% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.89
10 62.3% Erzya + 37.7% South_Italian @ 3.9
11 65.6% Erzya + 34.4% Italian_Jewish @ 3.96
12 76.7% Ukrainian + 23.3% Samaritan @ 3.98
13 77.2% Ukrainian + 22.8% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.03
14 68% Kargopol_Russian + 32% Cyprian @ 4.11
15 65.6% Erzya + 34.4% Sephardic_Jewish @ 4.13
16 71.4% Estonian_Polish + 28.6% Samaritan @ 4.13
17 60.1% Erzya + 39.9% Ashkenazi @ 4.14
18 78.9% Ukrainian_Lviv + 21.1% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.14
19 61.4% Bulgarian + 38.6% Erzya @ 4.14
20 71.9% Estonian_Polish + 28.1% Lebanese_Christian @ 4.15

Could be, it's one of the most common surnames here. Please PM/rep me the kit or email so that I can confirm the origin.

**Leto** · 12-29-2020, 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by Ion Basescul

Could be, it's one of the most common surnames here. Please PM/rep me the kit or email so that I can confirm the origin.

Done.
His NA is fucking low. The data source appears to be MyHeritage though.

Apparently his sibling or something like that (2,700+ cM shared)

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 33.11
2 North_Atlantic 18.96
3 West_Med 16.96
4 West_Asian 11.31
5 East_Med 10.52
6 Red_Sea 4.28
7 Siberian 2.03
8 Oceanian 1.71
9 East_Asian 1.1

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 6.24
2 Croatian 9.35
3 Serbian 10.33
4 Romanian 11.5
5 Bulgarian 12.22
6 Ukrainian_Lviv 13.27
7 Hungarian 13.42
8 Ukrainian 14.87
9 South_Polish 15.6
10 Austrian 17.18
11 Southwest_Russian 17.32
12 Ukrainian_Belgorod 17.36
13 East_German 17.66
14 Polish 18.19
15 Tatar 18.89
16 Russian_Smolensk 19.28
17 Estonian_Polish 19.92
18 Greek_Thessaly 20.08
19 Kargopol_Russian 20.44
20 Belorussian 20.9

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 93.1% Moldavian + 6.9% Bedouin @ 5.34
2 94.3% Moldavian + 5.7% Saudi @ 5.38
3 93.4% Moldavian + 6.6% Georgian_Jewish @ 5.41
4 93.1% Moldavian + 6.9% Syrian @ 5.44
5 93.7% Moldavian + 6.3% Samaritan @ 5.44
6 94% Moldavian + 6% Lebanese_Christian @ 5.48
7 76.8% Ukrainian_Lviv + 23.2% Cyprian @ 5.49
8 94% Moldavian + 6% Kurdish_Jewish @ 5.5
9 93.8% Moldavian + 6.2% Assyrian @ 5.5
10 93.2% Moldavian + 6.8% Cyprian @ 5.51
11 93.7% Moldavian + 6.3% Jordanian @ 5.51
12 93.4% Moldavian + 6.6% Lebanese_Muslim @ 5.52
13 93.9% Moldavian + 6.1% Armenian @ 5.53
14 92.6% Moldavian + 7.4% Turkish @ 5.54
15 94.4% Moldavian + 5.6% Abhkasian @ 5.54
16 92.7% Moldavian + 7.3% Kabardin @ 5.55
17 94.2% Moldavian + 5.8% Georgian @ 5.56
18 93% Moldavian + 7% Balkar @ 5.56
19 94.3% Moldavian + 5.7% Iranian_Jewish @ 5.58
20 94.2% Moldavian + 5.8% Palestinian @ 5.59

**~~Ion Basescul~~** · 12-29-2020, 12:59 AM

Originally Posted by Leto

Done.
His NA is fucking low. The data source appears to be MyHeritage though.

Apparently his sibling or something like that (2,700+ cM shared)

Thanks, yes, that's definitely a sibling. I'll check with them.
Sometimes they like to inflate the Baltic, which drops the NA or viceversa. My mum's and brother's are similar in this regard.

N_Atlantic	Baltic	West_Med	West_Asian	East_Med	Red_Sea	South_Asian	East_Asian	Siberian	Amerindian	Oceanian	NE_African	Sub-Saharan
20.94	32.81	16.13	11.69	12.21	0.97	2.06	1.03	1.08	0.54	0.54	0	0
19.44	37.30	15.60	10.04	13.19	0.47	0.95	1.49	0.28	0.41	0.82	0	0

**~~Ion Basescul~~** · 12-29-2020, 01:26 AM

Originally Posted by Leto

Done.
His NA is fucking low. The data source appears to be MyHeritage though.

Apparently his sibling or something like that (2,700+ cM shared)

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 33.11
2 North_Atlantic 18.96
3 West_Med 16.96
4 West_Asian 11.31
5 East_Med 10.52
6 Red_Sea 4.28
7 Siberian 2.03
8 Oceanian 1.71
9 East_Asian 1.1

So both of them are from Bucharest, which isn't telling much because Bucharest has people from all over Romania, Republic of Moldova, and beyond. My kits from Bucharest are very diverse. But I found this comment "Moldavians are the same with romanians, but my ancestry family is from Ucraine, Russia and far East Europe." and sent an email to check the origin. Could be the descendants of WW2 deportees.