Dodecad k12b West & Central Asian results Vol 4.

[Kyp]

As a follow up:
Target: Absheron02
Distance: 1.9326% / 1.93263206
27.5 Kubachi_Dagestan
22.5 Iran_Mazandaran
18.4 Kuwait2
15.5 Georgian_Svan
11.3 Nuristani
3.8 Georgian_Gurian
0.9 Sandawe_He
0.1 Somali

Distance to: Absheron02
4.85300618 49.20% Iran_Arab + 50.80% Lezgin
4.89735378 56.40% Iran_Arab + 43.60% Kubachi_Dagestan
5.11009531 54.40% Iran_Arab + 45.60% Lak
5.25571642 72.60% Kurd_Sorani + 27.40% Tabasaran
5.31275103 25.80% Kaitag_Dagestan + 74.20% Kurd_Sorani
5.33109740 44.40% Avar + 55.60% Iran_Arab
5.39504428 26.60% Avar + 73.40% Kurd_Sorani
5.47317863 72.60% Kurd_Sorani + 27.40% Lak
5.50657682 55.00% Iran_Arab + 45.00% Tabasaran
5.54643807 25.60% Kubachi_Dagestan + 74.40% Kurd_Sorani
5.54873545 68.40% Kurd_Sorani + 31.60% Lezgin
5.65459706 41.40% Dargin + 58.60% Iran_Arab
5.65760731 23.80% Dargin + 76.20% Kurd_Sorani
5.72933270 56.80% Iran_Arab + 43.20% Kaitag_Dagestan
5.73699069 43.80% Iraqi_Arab + 56.20% Lezgin


Seems to be a mix between Dagestani (probably not Dagestani Azeri) and Iranian.

Maybe they are Tats?

[Sterling Archer]

Maybe they are Tats?

I haven't though of that. It is possible, but still hard for me to reconcile high steppe and lack of siberia. Unfortunately we don't have that many (I only have one) Azerbaijani tat samples to compare to.
The one I (whose father is from Absheron) have is different from Absheron samples here, and is more Dagestani shifted.

Tat,22.10,2.73,0,0.86,6.70,12.86,2.20,0,8.63,0.63, 43.19,0.12

Distance to: Tat
4.36114664 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
7.22527508 Azerbaijani_Turkey
7.42202802 Tsakhur_Azerbaijan
7.45962466 Udi_Azerbaijan
7.69302281 Ingush
7.86921216 Azerbaijani_Iran
7.89792378 Talysh_Azerbaijan
8.10874836 Azerbaijani
8.21140670 Adyghe
8.40471891 Zaza
9.07261263 Turk_East
9.21102600 Kumyk
9.22850475 Kurd_Kurmanji
9.43132546 Karachay
9.49040041 Kurd_Adygea
9.50027894 Ossetian
9.55973326 Abazin
9.73336530 Circassian
10.09756901 Kabardin
10.18201355 Chechen
10.43407878 Balkar
10.64135800 Turk_Southeast
10.76477589 Turk_Central_East
10.78490148 Yazidi
10.87154083 Iranian

Distance to: Tat
1.52982144 57.00% Adyghe + 43.00% Yazidi
1.65772972 61.40% Adyghe + 38.60% Lur_Iran
1.67293818 53.20% Ossetian + 46.80% Yazidi
1.76183054 50.20% Karachay + 49.80% Kurd_Adygea
1.78201986 53.00% Adyghe + 47.00% Kurd_Kurmanji
1.81974923 53.80% Adyghe + 46.20% Kurd_Adygea
1.82837141 61.60% Ingush + 38.40% Iraq_Turkmen
1.83243694 52.40% Ingush + 47.60% Zaza
1.85408262 58.80% Adyghe + 41.20% Kurd_Sorani
1.87322397 63.40% Adyghe + 36.60% Iranian_Fars
1.87530761 50.80% Kurd_Kurmanji + 49.20% Ossetian
1.90856183 45.00% Abazin + 55.00% Talysh_Azerbaijan
1.92995961 76.60% Azerbaijani_Dagestan + 23.40% Georgian


Finally, I run Absheron sample with tat included in the spreadsheet. This is what I get:
Distance to: Absheron02
8.41966745 Kurd_Sorani
8.82977916 Talysh_Azerbaijan
8.92191123 Kurd_Adygea
9.03586188 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
9.10379591 Kurd_Kurmanji
9.19872817 Iranian_Fars
9.34484350 Yazidi
9.40912855 Azerbaijani_Iran
9.76616097 Zaza
9.87385436 Iraq_Turkmen
9.89376571 Iranian
9.99694953 Azerbaijani
10.06427345 Tat
10.56926204 Lur_Iran
11.08866989 Iran_Khorasan

Again, very distant even from tat sample. I hope we can get more information about the source of these samples.
So far none of these samples look Azerbaijani to me, not even the first one. Maybe this is what Absheron tats will look like (different from the northern Azerbaijani tats) if we obtain more samples.

[Mejgusu]

Again, very distant even from tat sample. I hope we can get more information about the source of these samples.
So far none of these samples look Azerbaijani to me, not even the first one. Maybe this is what Absheron tats will look like (different from the northern Azerbaijani tats) if we obtain more samples.

Weren’t the coastal parts of Azerbaijan once predominantly non-Turkish? Results from Lenkoran seem to be mixed for example, i think these results are just turkified Iranics. This steppe influence is indeed very high but aren’t Udi people also steppe influenced although they are neither Turkic nor Iranic? Maybe there were some northern impact from Caucasus which
influenced some natives or Iranics.

[Kyp]

Weren’t the coastal parts of Azerbaijan once predominantly non-Turkish? Results from Lenkoran seem to be mixed for example, i think these results are just turkified Iranics. This steppe influence is indeed very high but aren’t Udi people also steppe influenced although they are neither Turkic nor Iranic? Maybe there were some northern impact from Caucasus which
influenced some natives or Iranics.

Absheron was considered predominantly populated by Tats. Tats seem to have high North_Euro (intermediate between NW Iranics and Dagestanis) and close to zero turkic input. Yes Udis are a good example although they probably are a bit western shifted compared to Tats.


At least this is what it looks like for now. High northeuro and low turkic seems to be common in the Northeast and Tats I assume to be intermediate between Lezgins and Kurds.

[Sterling Archer]

Absheron was considered predominantly populated by Tats. Tats seem to have high North_Euro (intermediate between NW Iranics and Dagestanis) and close to zero turkic input. Yes Udis are a good example although they probably are a bit western shifted compared to Tats.


At least this is what it looks like for now. High northeuro and low turkic seems to be common in the Northeast and Tats I assume to be intermediate between Lezgins and Kurds.

Yes, Udis don't have that much steppe.

The other issue is that Turks used tat as a general term for iranic speaking population of Azerbaijan. This would indicate that tats probably don't have a common origin. So for example Northern tats from Guba/Derbent would be different from tats of Absheron.

One paper that studies Y-DNA found that Dagestani tats had similar haplogroups to Kubachin (subgroup of Dargins) people.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22275152/
J1-M267 65%
J2-M172 5%
R1b1-P25 25%


So here we might actually be talking about initial persianisation of local Caucasian people.

[RatCat]

I don't know if i shared this result before.

A match of mine, dont know the exact ethnicity but She is from Eastern Black Sea. Distances are big, interesting result.

Population
Gedrosia 14.4 Pct
Siberian -
Northwest_African 0.33 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 8.37 Pct
North_European 2.87 Pct
South_Asian -
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 12.59 Pct
East_Asian -
Caucasus 61.45 Pct
Sub_Saharan -


Distance to: Hacer
5.96489732 Laz
6.02834140 Hemshin
7.36005435 Georgian_Adjara
7.78183783 Greek_Pontus
7.99574262 Georgian_Turkey
8.16931454 Turk_East_Black_Sea
9.81618052 Georgian_Imereti
11.49686479 Turk_Ahiska
11.66467745 Georgian_Mingrelian
11.99750807 Georgian_Gurian
12.02274927 Georgian
12.66655439 Armenian_East
13.32542682 Armenian_West
14.79494846 Georgian_Svan
15.23934054 Abkhazian
16.31870706 Assyrian_West
16.34124842 Assyrian_North
16.72809911 Assyrian_South
16.76575677 Azeri_Jew
17.14830604 Turk_East
17.82363880 Udi_Azerbaijan
17.89117939 Greek_Cappadocia
19.30408765 Kurdish_Jew
19.97560012 Iraqi_Jew
20.01217379 Iranian_Jew


Target: Hacer
Distance: 5.9065% / 5.90654593
98.4 Laz
1.6 Yemenite_Mahra


Target: Hacer
Distance: 5.9513% / 5.95125222 | ADC: 0.5x RC
70.4 Laz
29.6 Hemshin

[Dr_Maul]

I don't know if i shared this result before.

A match of mine, dont know the exact ethnicity but She is from Eastern Black Sea. Distances are big, interesting result.

Population
Gedrosia 14.4 Pct
Siberian -
Northwest_African 0.33 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 8.37 Pct
North_European 2.87 Pct
South_Asian -
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 12.59 Pct
East_Asian -
Caucasus 61.45 Pct
Sub_Saharan -


Distance to: Hacer
5.96489732 Laz
6.02834140 Hemshin
7.36005435 Georgian_Adjara
7.78183783 Greek_Pontus
7.99574262 Georgian_Turkey
8.16931454 Turk_East_Black_Sea
9.81618052 Georgian_Imereti
11.49686479 Turk_Ahiska
11.66467745 Georgian_Mingrelian
11.99750807 Georgian_Gurian
12.02274927 Georgian
12.66655439 Armenian_East
13.32542682 Armenian_West
14.79494846 Georgian_Svan
15.23934054 Abkhazian
16.31870706 Assyrian_West
16.34124842 Assyrian_North
16.72809911 Assyrian_South
16.76575677 Azeri_Jew
17.14830604 Turk_East
17.82363880 Udi_Azerbaijan
17.89117939 Greek_Cappadocia
19.30408765 Kurdish_Jew
19.97560012 Iraqi_Jew
20.01217379 Iranian_Jew


Target: Hacer
Distance: 5.9065% / 5.90654593
98.4 Laz
1.6 Yemenite_Mahra


Target: Hacer
Distance: 5.9513% / 5.95125222 | ADC: 0.5x RC
70.4 Laz
29.6 Hemshin

Wow 61.5% caucasus, I think thats the highest I've seen
maybe that is causing the distance

[Nanushka]

I don't think the Avars were ever present in Europe or outside the North Caucasus. And that's not really Slavic either. Dagestan is the most European HG part of the Caucasus, I think that's because of the close proximity to the Eurasian Steppe which is just north of the Caspian Sea.

No, Avars were in Northern Caucasus after northern India and western Turkistan, they were of Hunnic origin called White Huns, then they migrated to deep Europe and set an empire there. That is a fact and there is full evidence related to that including the genetics. What you claim sounds like Greeks were never present in Land of Kipchak or Persians were never present in Central Asia. So you believe that they had settled (though not in big numbers as Avars did in Europe) in those lands but Avars did not migrate and not settled in Europe, especially governed Slavics? Contradictory. I know you are Russian and its difficult to accept it as a IE theory supporter but there is enough proof that contemporary and early Avars are one and same although the former surely mixed with the locals (who were of Sarmatian origin). Thats why the y-haplogroup of Avar males is predominantly J1, after Sarmatian origins, with less R1 and mt-haplogroups are H, U and K5 and our test results reflect higher northern European components. I have even far-cousins from Icelanders from mt-DNA

Kalmykia and Astrakhan were part of the Indo-European/Yamnaya sphere.

and they were (and still) are Turkic

Leto I know you are into genetics, so here are some links about the genetics of Hungarian conquerers (and some of them are found to be related to Avars in Daghestan) and Sarmatians:

''There is a 1–1 mutation step deviation on 2 frequently mutating markers (DYS570 and DYS576) that are not in the network, which is in accord with the observation that the male from Bodrogköz is a direct descendant of either the research individual or the research individual’s close genetic relative. The two samples are 1 genetic step away on 17 loci from a Northeast Caucasian (from Dagestan) Avar sample; this haplogroup may have entered the Hungarian Conqueror genome in the foreground of the Caucasus''

https://link.springer.com/article/10...20-019-00996-0

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...y4xLNPFOaQ0haE

Everybody should read them

I am currently writing an academic article on White Huns and Avars and their connection to contemporary Avars in my university, as I also know the language, but I will share it when it is published

[Sterling Archer]

No, Avars were in Northern Caucasus after northern India and western Turkistan, they were of Hunnic origin called White Huns, then they migrated to deep Europe and set an empire there. That is a fact and there is full evidence related to that including the genetics. What you claim sounds like Greeks were never present in Land of Kipchak or Persians were never present in Central Asia. So you believe that they had settled (though not in big numbers as Avars did in Europe) in those lands but Avars did not migrate and not settled in Europe, especially governed Slavics? Contradictory. I know you are Russian and its difficult to accept it as a IE theory supporter but there is enough proof that contemporary and early Avars are one and same although the former surely mixed with the locals (who were of Sarmatian origin). Thats why the y-haplogroup of Avar males is predominantly J1, after Sarmatian origins, with less R1 and mt-haplogroups are H, U and K5 and our test results reflect higher northern European components. I have even far-cousins from Icelanders from mt-DNA

I think you are confusing something here. You are talking about Pannonian Avars, Turkic or Eruasian group not related to Caucasian Avars, who untill relatively recently weren't called Avars at all.
if you are interested, here is the info:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pannonian_Avars

Higher Europen component doesn't mean Avars were in Europe or vise versa. That component is not really European in origin. It originated somewhere in the Eurasian steppes, and sipped into Caucasus later. There are ethnic groups in Eurasia (Chuvash, Tatar for example) with much higher percentage of North Europe than any Avar or many europeans.
The fact that you have a cousin in Iceland means absolutely nothing. One guy in Nakchiavan, Azerbaijan ended up having distant cousins in Scotland and UK. Again, doesn't mean what you think it means. Just that some people moved around.

[Altaylı]

Nogai from Ankara Şereflikoçhisar Doğankaya village

Gedrosia 12.90 Pct
Siberian 12.93 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian 2.48 Pct
Atlantic_Med 7.42 Pct
North_European 16.89 Pct
South_Asian -
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 2.48 Pct
East_Asian 22.01 Pct
Caucasus 22.88 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

Distance to: Nogai_Gossar
10.51016175 Turkmen_Afghanistan
10.55310855 Uzbeki
10.92747912 Uzbek
13.29759001 Turkmen_Uzbekistan
13.88110947 Crimean_Tatar_Steppe
14.11713852 Nogai_Stavropol
16.59234763 Karakalpak
16.71658458 Turkmen_Iran
17.12899005 Uyghur
17.56775171 Nogai
18.59835477 Nogai_Astrakhan
20.90842414 Lipka_Tatar
20.91103776 Hazara
21.93062243 Turkmen_TM
22.90473968 Tajik_Mountain
23.07987868 Kazakh
23.17558845 Turk_Northwest
23.74177963 Bashkir_South
23.82371927 Tatar_Siberia
24.24372702 Turk_Southwest
24.95027054 Kyrgyz_Pamir
25.37774616 Tajik_Lowland
25.46302810 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain
26.48788780 Kyrgyz
26.61296113 Turk_West_BlackSea

Target: Nogai_Gossar
Distance: 2.4216% / 2.42158597 | ADC: 0.25x RC
31.6 Nogai
27.5 Nogai_Stavropol
13.6 Turk_Southwest
12.3 Uzbek
7.5 Crimean_Tatar_Steppe
7.5 Japanese

Here is Doğankaya village