Dodecad k12b West & Central Asian results Vol 4.

[Kaspias]

Target: Altaic (Kimak, Zaza, Cappadocia, Armenia and Udi added; lowest distance)
Distance: 2.640883% / 2.64088302
44.4 Zaza
36.6 Greek_Cappadocia
10.2 DA87_Kimak
8.8 Udi

Target: Altaic (only Armenia and Kimak added)
Distance: 4.905811% / 4.90581128
61.6 Armenian_East
21.0 Armenian_West
17.4 DA87_Kimak



Thanks

10-12% seems reasonable.

[Leto]

I have posted this already. Might be Tsakhur(or just very north shifted Azerbaijani like the ones from Qakh and Zaqatala), but as you said, Tsakhur average is a bit wonky.

The average is based on three very different samples from Suvagil village in Azerbaijan.
They are not from the same family, very different from each other.

Found them (all have different names):
Tsakhur1,24.94,1.97,0,0,5.01,21.83,0.89,0,4.13,3.3 1,37.91,0
Tsakhur2,22.98,2.25,0,0,5.61,18.01,1.83,0,5.63,2.5 3,41.16,0
Tsakhur3,21.18,2.27,0,0,5.56,16.68,0,0,6.64,0.82,46.85,0

NK6525185
DF5021482
BF5421902

These are all close relatives. If that's the data set, I strongly suggest deletion. After all, the Tsakhurs are neither unique nor important.

[Thracian]

10-12% seems reasonable.

Why do you think that Kimak can be proxy for Oghuz Turks (if I did not understand wrong)?

[Kaspias]

Why do you think that Kimak can be proxy for Oghuz Turks (if I did not understand wrong)?

Thanks again. I have had Iranians on the pright but it somehow reduced the p-value, so I removed it.


I think these 3 models are really crucial while answering "how the genome of Oghuz was?" We had been using DA89 for a long time, but I recently started to question the accuracy of our method(I think DA89 is 3/4 Gokturk and 1/4 Sogdian, this turns it into a false-candidate for Oghuz) and came to the conclusion that Oghuz should be in between Kipchak and Kimak after searching on historical perspective(The one that helped most was: İlk Oğuzlar, Osman Karatay). Both of the Kipchak samples we have is not representative so went with the Kimak-like option. Apparently I was right, because this is the only passing model when using Medieval samples. In addition, the region where these samples are collected(Kayseri) were housing Cappadocian Greeks that is what I used for the native admixture of them, so the result is pretty solid and one can come with guesses on Western Anatolia(10-40% Kimak?), too.

Do you remember that you asked me the population to use while representing Anatolian Turk's Anatolian ancestry? I have found the Roopkund outlier in the spreadsheet who is a Central Anatolian Greek from the classical Ottoman Era, and simulated possible scenarios using 3 different Turkic populations.

Simon's Turkish samples are from Hodoğlugil's study and collected in Kayseri: http://simonsfoundation.s3.amazonaws...ion_update.txt

These Kayseri samples have ~6% East Eurasian on average -referencing Gedmatch- so we can draw further conclusions based on it.

# right

  "Mbuti.DG",
  "Han.DG",
  "Saami.DG",
  "Icelandic.DG",
  "Sardinian.DG",
  "Punjabi.DG",
  "Eskimo_Chaplin.DG",
  "BedouinB.DG",
  "Basque.DG"

---

! 90852 SNPs remain after filtering. 78431 are polymorphic.

 target               left                     weight     se     z
                                          
1 Anatolian_Turkish.DG Anatolian_Greek_Medieval  0.863 0.0363 23.8 
2 Anatolian_Turkish.DG Kimak.SG                  0.137 0.0363  3.76

f4rank   dof  chisq        p dofdiff chisqdiff  p_nested
                       
1      1     7   8.43 2.96e- 1       9      419.  1.00e-84
2      0    16 428.   5.31e-81      NA       NA  NA

---

! 99251 SNPs remain after filtering. 85286 are polymorphic.

 target               left                     weight     se     z
                                          
1 Anatolian_Turkish.DG Anatolian_Greek_Medieval  0.816 0.0472 17.3 
2 Anatolian_Turkish.DG Gokturk.SG                0.184 0.0472  3.90

 f4rank   dof chisq        p dofdiff chisqdiff  p_nested
                      
1      1     7  15.8 2.74e- 2       9      303.  6.10e-60
2      0    16 319.  3.31e-58      NA       NA  NA

---

! 247268 SNPs remain after filtering. 213710 are polymorphic.

 target               left                     weight     se     z
                                          
1 Anatolian_Turkish.DG Anatolian_Greek_Medieval  0.851 0.0283 30.1 
2 Anatolian_Turkish.DG Ottoman_MA2195.SG         0.149 0.0283  5.27

 f4rank   dof chisq         p dofdiff chisqdiff   p_nested
                        
1      1     7  17.2 1.64e-  2       9      728.  6.69e-151
2      0    16 745.  3.16e-148      NA       NA  NA

[Sterling Archer]

NK6525185
DF5021482
BF5421902

These are all close relatives. If that's the data set, I strongly suggest deletion. After all, the Tsakhurs are neither unique nor important.

Hmm... Is it me or NK6525185 and DF5021482 are the same person? The kit seems to have been uploaded by different people.
BF5421902 is indeed related to the first two.
Tsakhur3 is not among them though, which explains why it is so different.

Sample based on three people, of which two are closely related, is not very good. I agree.
As for removal, do we need to ask the person who created the average? Don't know the protocol for this things in this forum

[Leto]

Hmm... Is it me or NK6525185 and DF5021482 are the same person? The kit seems to have been uploaded by different people.
BF5421902 is indeed related to the first two.
Tsakhur3 is not among them though, which explains why it is so different.

Sample based on three people, of which two are closely related, is not very good. I agree.
As for removal, do we need to ask the person who created the average? Don't know the protocol for this things in this forum

That person is Kyp. I hope he doesn't mind me having it deleted.

[Sterling Archer]

double

[Mejgusu]

Azerbaijani with a very high East Asian admixture. The highest I have seen. (4.58 + 1.29 + 5.2 = 11.07)

Actually there are some individuals from Shahseven and Terekkeme tribe who score 15-20% east eurasian. Once i saw the result of someone’s grandfather who had the highest amount of east eurasian which i have ever saw in Westasian Turkics, he itself was a regular Azerbaijani.

[Sterling Archer]

Actually there are some individuals from Shahseven and Terekkeme tribe who score 15-20% east eurasian. Once i saw the result of someone’s grandfather who had the highest amount of east eurasian which i have ever saw in Westasian Turkics, he itself was a regular Azerbaijani.

Can you please post that result here? Usually the highest percentages are from the North-West of the country, but even there it rarely passes 10%.
I have never heard of 15% let alone 20%.

[Mejgusu]

Can you please post that result here? Usually the highest percentages are from the North-West of the country, but even there it rarely passes 10%.
I have never heard of 15% let alone 20%.

Unfortunately i don’t find that anymore, I saw this result years ago even before i was active here. I am not sure whether this person had more than 30% east eurasian, but it was definitely more than 20%. This Shahseven and Terekkeme samples are already known here, you can find them easily in previous dodecad threads. I also can remember that this person itself was genetically a regular Azerbaijani. I think there were some rural Azerbaijanis whith huge amount of Turkic admixture, but i doubt that many still have it. Maybe still Iranian Turkish individuals could surprise us, Republican Azerbaijanis won’t tbh.