Macedonian Gedmatch kits - 28

**~~Ion Basescul~~** · 04-28-2021, 08:39 PM

Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

_	North_Atlantic	Baltic	West_Med	West_Asian	East_Med	Red_Sea	South_Asian	East_Asian	Siberian	Amerindian	Oceanian	Northeast_Afr	Sub_Saharan

central macedonia:
Macedonia:Macedonia_674	24.2	19.33	15.86	12.65	24.9	2.49	0	0	0.57	0	0	0	0
Macedonia:Macedonia_675	21.3	17.95	18.01	11.54	24.1	4.76	0.97	0	0.66	0	0.29	0.42	0
Macedonia:Macedonia_676	17.96	22.15	20.72	12.07	23.45	1.37	0.63	0.11	0	0.93	0.61	0	0
Macedonia:Macedonia_677	17.15	17.54	18.07	19.27	21.34	5.63	0.01	0	0.47	0.34	0	0	0.17
Macedonia:Macedonia_678	19.82	16.23	23.6	13.6	22.95	2.3	0	1.02	0.01	0.47	0	0	0
Macedonia:Macedonia_679	18.29	20.68	22.24	8.91	25.57	1.7	2.17	0.25	0	0.19	0	0	0
Macedonia:Macedonia_680	19.25	20.7	19.52	14.19	20.77	3.15	0.95	0	1.14	0	0.27	0.05	0
Macedonia:Macedonia_681	18.72	16.94	20.1	14.1	25.51	2.63	0	0.78	0.03	0	0.95	0.16	0.07
Macedonia:Macedonia_682	25.24	16.63	21.26	11.01	21.21	1.82	0.65	0.65	0.34	0.66	0.53	0	0
Macedonia:Macedonia_683	12.13	20.44	25.88	14.18	24.24	0.69	1.1	0.45	0.5	0.39	0	0	0
Macedonia:Macedonia_684	15.67	17.13	21.8	15.22	26	1.66	0.1	0	2.41	0.01	0	0	0
Macedonia:Macedonia_685	13.94	22.14	20.09	10.32	27.52	4.06	0	0	0	1.05	0.01	0.87	0
Macedonia:Macedonia_686	18.56	18.48	21.36	11.43	25.25	3.45	0	0	0.57	0.3	0.6	0	0
Macedonia:Macedonia_687	17.81	17.62	20.84	15.37	22.03	2.89	2.72	0	0	0.01	0.7	0	0
Macedonia:Macedonia_688	13.89	18.85	17.98	18.62	23.46	2.87	0.39	0.37	2.53	0	0.82	0.22	0
Macedonia:Macedonia_689	23.06	18.39	23.41	7.68	22.98	1.41	2.72	0.32	0	0.02	0	0	0
Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP10	13.51	19.28	19.67	13.99	27.03	3.43	0.07	0.98	0	1	0.36	0.69	0
Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP11	23.72	17.86	18.13	9.96	26.52	1.26	1.44	0	0	0	0.38	0.65	0
Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP12	12.2	21.66	19.66	17	22.03	4.31	0	0	0.63	1.71	0.68	0.12	0
Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP13	21.9	12.64	22.66	16.86	21.24	2.8	0	0.12	0	0.67	0.57	0.3	0.22
Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP14	24.31	13	20.42	7.5	30.81	1.76	0.15	0	0	1.17	0.24	0.54	0.1
Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP15	22.58	15.87	20.71	15.34	23.09	0	0	0.77	0	0.88	0	0	0.75
Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP16	15.71	17.15	21.24	12.67	26.7	4.48	0	0	0.94	0	0	0	1.07
Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP17	19.71	21.26	17.97	10.93	25.79	2.37	0	0	0	0.78	0	0.41	0.75
Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP18	18.38	14.96	23.45	9.41	25.97	4.68	2.48	0	0	0.66	0	0	0
Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP3	16.13	20.48	23.08	9.83	25.43	2.81	0	0	0.87	0.76	0.61	0	0
Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP4	18.22	15.16	21.37	11.72	27.48	4.48	0	0.98	0.43	0.16	0	0	0
Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP5	19.45	16.33	22.41	10.69	26.32	1.41	1.86	1.2	0	0.34	0	0	0
Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP8	21.47	19.54	19.5	14.85	21.52	1.96	0	0	0.06	0.45	0.23	0	0.42
Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP9	18.1	19.49	24.06	12.35	22.34	2.17	0	1.48	0	0	0	0	0
Thessaloniki_Central_Macedonia	19.63	20.95	20.74	11.76	24.44	0.96	0.16	0.27	0.38	0.71	0	0	0
Thessaloniki_Central_Macedonia	17.15	20.77	21.98	13.92	23.97	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Serres_Central_Macedonia	20.66	15.96	21.9	13.11	22.34	4.13	0	0.41	0.19	0	0.06	1.25	0
Greek_Central_Macedonia_avg	18.78	18.29	20.90	12.79	24.37	2.60	0.56	0.31	0.39	0.41	0.24	0.17	0.11

west macedonia:
Florina_West_Macedonia	25.5	9.92	22.49	13.2	22.79	3.73	0	0.28	0	1.08	0	1.02	0
Florina_West_Macedonia	23	13.61	20.68	12.42	26.04	3.15	0	0	0.2	0.82	0.07	0	0
Florina_West_Macedonia	18.87	14.78	18.68	13.71	27.49	4.25	0.41	0.59	0.88	0	0	0.32	0
Florina_West_Macedonia	14.9	19.48	20.08	15.2	24.66	5.34	0	0.36	0	0	0	0	0
Florina_West_Macedonia	22.82	18.2	18.37	13.76	23.52	1.53	0	0.49	1.28	0	0	0	0
Ptolemaida_West_Macedonia	18.28	17.58	22.25	14.59	22.25	2.85	0.44	0	0.2	1.01	0.56	0	0
Greek_West_Macedonia_avg	20.56	15.60	20.43	13.81	24.46	3.48	0.14	0.29	0.43	0.49	0.11	0.22	0

macedonia outliers:
GreeceMaced2	19.34	24.91	17.65	13.91	20.42	1.85	0	0.01	1.68	0.03	0	0.01	0.19
GreeceMaced3	21.57	19.62	17.77	14.14	22.53	2.52	0.13	0.28	1.25	0.01	0.19	0	0
GreeceMaced4	16.45	24.84	19.74	10.52	25.15	1.99	1.1	0.08	0.01	0	0.13	0	0
GreeceMaced8	20.94	22.28	20.07	12.01	20.41	0.57	1.03	0.97	0.93	0.03	0.74	0	0.01
Serres	25.06	27.81	15.22	10.06	16.64	2.76	0	0	1.73	0.05	0.07	0.6	0
average	20.672	23.892	18.09	12.128	21.03	1.938	0.452	0.268	1.12	0.024	0.226	0.122	0.04

East Macedonia and Thrace:
GreeceNE11	19.1	20.59	19.02	13.38	25.3	0.88	0.32	0	0.58	0.3	0.53	0	0
GreeceNE126	19.33	14.21	23.63	15.95	21.86	3.08	0.54	0	0	1.05	0.15	0	0.19
GreeceNE144	23.12	13.53	22.78	13.74	21.81	3.33	0.08	0	1.02	0	0	0	0.55
GreeceNE162	25.23	14.23	20.12	11.26	24.43	3.29	0.65	0.47	0.07	0.22	0	0	0
GreeceNE209	13.74	15.53	25.15	12.63	26.08	4.71	0	0.95	0.28	0.86	0.06	0	0
GreeceNE231	20.28	10.9	20.92	17.16	25.64	4.18	0	0	0	0.3	0.39	0	0.24
GreeceNE252	19.01	12.45	19.64	16.41	26.24	4.46	0	0.68	0.48	0.11	0.52	0	0
GreeceNE284	22.14	13.82	20.1	14.35	25.97	3.02	0	0	0.19	0.42	0	0	0
GreeceNE34	23.2	21.99	17.64	8.6	21.71	5.18	0	0	0	1.16	0	0.51	0
GreeceNE59	23.54	17.61	16.42	11.35	22.91	5.24	1.04	0	0.73	0.45	0.72	0	0
GreeceNE8	20.43	22.56	19.05	11.25	21.76	3.55	0	0	0	1.07	0	0	0.31
East_Rumelia_650	20.56	16.52	21.6	13.04	22.89	4.2	0	0	0.57	0.22	0.39	0	0.01
East_Rumelia_653	17.84	14.43	18.86	16.2	27.79	3.48	0.04	0	0	1.37	0	0	0
East_Rumelia_651	15.29	19.6	20.91	16.84	22.89	3.28	0.03	0	0.79	0	0.37	0	0
East_Rumelia_642	24.43	16.27	17.56	13.25	23.08	3.08	1.92	0	0.01	0.38	0	0	0
East_Rumelia_646	19.34	13.74	17.62	17.82	25.37	2.79	1.92	0.04	0.7	0.24	0.41	0	0
East_Rumelia_652	15.81	11.41	18.26	17.16	32.14	2.59	0	0.16	0.95	0.52	0	0	1
East_Rumelia_647	21.08	22.7	20.07	15.47	16.99	2.31	0.54	0.02	0.75	0	0	0.05	0
East_Rumelia_643	15.84	16.99	17.21	19.83	26.62	2.05	0.23	0	0.08	0	1.16	0	0
East_Rumelia_644	14.78	25.52	16.33	11.82	27.11	1.92	0	0	2.11	0	0	0.01	0.39
East_Rumelia_645	20.59	22.7	18.67	11.77	23.06	1.9	0	0	0.12	0	1.19	0	0
East_Rumelia_649	21.36	17.76	18.77	10.4	27.1	1.55	1.87	0	0.11	0.48	0	0	0.6
East_Rumelia_648	20.35	21.58	21.26	15.82	17.05	0.83	0.13	1.93	0	0.69	0	0	0.36
Greek_Eastern-Thrace	16.34	17.89	20.2	13.03	27.42	3.63	0	0	1.02	0.31	0.13	0	0
Greek_Macedonia_Thrace	15.23	16.22	18.36	17.97	26.41	3.56	0.54	0.36	0.58	0	0.53	0.15	0.03
Greek_Western-Thrace	21.88	13.08	22.91	12.65	25.86	1.9	0	1.34	0	0.38	0	0	0
Greek_Istanbul	18.08	15.35	16.12	19.69	26.36	2.59	0	0	0.53	0.42	0.73	0.13	0
Greek_Eastern-Macedonia	20.66	15.94	21.89	13.13	22.35	4.13	0	0.41	0.19	0	0.06	1.25	0
Greek_Northern-Thrace	19.04	22.53	19.23	12.02	24.12	0	0	0	1	0	1.52	0	0
Thrace	15.93	18.93	19.3	16.36	25.84	1.59	0	1.29	0	0.68	0.08	0	0
Eastern_Thrace	17.34	18.89	20.2	12.03	27.42	2.63	0	0	1.02	0.31	0.13	0	0
bigsnake_thrace	19.45	19.80	19.27	15.01	22.41	0.88	0.67	0.51	0.33	0.28	0.28	0.54	0.57
Greek_Northeast_avg	19.39	17.35	19.66	14.29	24.50	2.87	0.33	0.26	0.44	0.38	0.29	0.08	0.13

aromanians:
aromanian1	25.95	23.56	16.11	9.72	19.35	3.09	0	0	1.2	0.27	0.53	0.21	0
aromanian2	23.28	21.03	17.32	12.84	19.86	2.64	0.01	0	1.26	1.24	0.54	0	0
aromanian3	21.34	21.03	18.47	10.96	22.05	4.71	0	0	0	1.06	0.25	0.12	0
aromanian4	22.21	19.88	20.33	11.84	19.73	4.68	0	0.66	0	0	0.67	0	0
aromanian5	21.16	16.34	21.87	11.2	23.99	4.14	0.06	0.43	0	0	0.81	0	0
aromanian6	19.98	21.95	20.79	12.18	22.6	1.05	0.18	0.34	0.91	0	0	0	0
aromanian7	17.79	20.84	18.59	11.7	27.51	1.38	1.01	0.15	0.35	0.67	0	0	0
aromanian8	18.34	18.11	18.52	13.72	25.8	2.99	0.15	2.14	0	0	0.24	0	0
aromanian_avg	21.26	20.34	19.00	11.77	22.61	3.09	0.18	0.47	0.47	0.41	0.38	0.04	0.00

Aromanian1 looks like an outlier, but the rest must be legit. An average of about 40-42% NA+Baltic is also found in Aromanians whose families settled in Romania.

**vbnetkhio** · 04-28-2021, 08:43 PM

Originally Posted by Ion Basescul

Aromanian1 looks like an outlier, but the rest must be legit. An average of about 40-42% NA+Baltic is also found in Aromanians whose families settled in Romania.

Aromanian1 is Paradox's father. And those Aromanians living in Romania you posted are included here, haha. Without them the sample would be too small, and they are obviously pure Aromanians.

**CommonSense** · 04-28-2021, 08:44 PM

OK, there doesn't seem to be much of a difference between these kits and those than JohnnyP collected, with the exception of certain Greeks being very southern-shifted. Paradox's dad on the other hand is a clear outlier here, not only compared to the other seven Aromanian samples, but also to even to the most northern-shifted of these Greeks, excluding the one kit with dubious ancestry that Kaspias found. So I don't think it's fair to cast doubt on Johnny for not including any people like him. If they were common, in such a large collection of samples we would have found some that are similar.

**~~Ion Basescul~~** · 04-28-2021, 08:53 PM

Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

Aromanian1 is Paradox's father. And those Aromanians living in Romania you posted are included here, haha. Without them the sample would be too small, and they are obviously pure Aromanians.

Ah yes, there are also these 2 from Constanta:

Code:

19.97,21.03,19.05,13.79,21.77,3.51,0.50,0.12,0.26,0,0,0,0
24.30,17.60,21.30,10.01,22.97,3.03,0,0.38,0.21,0.20,0,0,0

And this one is 3/4 Romanian from Oltenia region and 1/4 Slavic Macedonian from Struga, which is why I tend to believe in Macedonians being as Southern as they are portrayed in this thread.

Code:

19.05,23.68,19.16,14.27,18.97,0.88,1.96,0.83,1.21,0,0,0,0

**JohnnyP** · 04-28-2021, 09:02 PM

Is funny how Central Macedonians (Vardar Region) plots close to Ghegs even there are not living Albanians at all.Albanians are living West/Northwest and Skopje too.
I think even more North Atlantic than Ghegs.

**vbnetkhio** · 04-28-2021, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by CommonSense

OK, there doesn't seem to be much of a difference between these kits and those than JohnnyP collected, with the exception of certain Greeks being very southern-shifted. Paradox's dad on the other hand is a clear outlier here, not only compared to the other seven Aromanian samples, but also to even to the most northern-shifted of these Greeks, excluding the one kit with dubious ancestry that Kaspias found. So I don't think it's fair to cast doubt on Johnny for not including any people like him. If they were common, in such a large collection of samples we would have found some that are similar.

the Aromanian sample size is quite small for a population spread over such a large area. I expect more Aromanian results like paradox dad's to appear, I don't see what kind of foreign admixture could be giving him that NA shift.

also, 90% of the central Macedonia results are from Thessaloniki. (very likely the Macedonia:Macedonia samples too)
we need a proper sample from the mountainous part of Greek Macedonia to see what the area is really like.

**catgeorge** · 04-28-2021, 09:10 PM

All these distances are super close to me

Distance to: Sarakatsani
2.66373798 Greek_West_Macedonia_avg
3.19806191 GreeceNE284
3.65603610 Florina_West_Macedonia
3.69912152 East_Rumelia_642
3.70332283 Greek_Northeast_avg
4.06732099 East_Rumelia_650
4.10143877 Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
4.12000000 Serres_Central_Macedonia
4.18982100 Florina_West_Macedonia
4.28504376 Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP15
4.36548966 Macedonia:Macedonia_675
4.55157116 Macedonia:Macedonia_681
4.79341215 GreeceMaced3
4.81205777 aromanian5
4.85897108 GreeceNE162
5.06638925 Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP8
5.24700867 Greek_Central_Macedonia_avg
5.26899421 GreeceNE144
5.28754196 Florina_West_Macedonia
5.39523864 GreeceNE59
5.57445962 aromanian8
5.67870584 Macedonia:Macedonia_674
5.76124119 Macedonia:Macedonia_678
5.76713967 aromanian_avg
5.79425578 East_Rumelia_646

**JohnnyP** · 04-28-2021, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by catgeorge

All these distances are super close to me

Distance to: Sarakatsani
2.66373798 Greek_West_Macedonia_avg
3.19806191 GreeceNE284
3.65603610 Florina_West_Macedonia
3.69912152 East_Rumelia_642
3.70332283 Greek_Northeast_avg
4.06732099 East_Rumelia_650
4.10143877 Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
4.12000000 Serres_Central_Macedonia
4.18982100 Florina_West_Macedonia
4.28504376 Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP15
4.36548966 Macedonia:Macedonia_675
4.55157116 Macedonia:Macedonia_681
4.79341215 GreeceMaced3
4.81205777 aromanian5
4.85897108 GreeceNE162
5.06638925 Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP8
5.24700867 Greek_Central_Macedonia_avg
5.26899421 GreeceNE144
5.28754196 Florina_West_Macedonia
5.39523864 GreeceNE59
5.57445962 aromanian8
5.67870584 Macedonia:Macedonia_674
5.76124119 Macedonia:Macedonia_678
5.76713967 aromanian_avg
5.79425578 East_Rumelia_646

Can you try also with Central Macedonians

Code:

CentralMacedonian,23.4,17.66,22.46,10.96,21.79,0.61,0,0,1.28,1.39,0.45,0,0
CentralMacedonian,24.95,18.23,16.98,11.13,23.42,2.32,0.24,0.65,0.42,1.29,0,0.3,0.05
CentralMacedonian,26.15,19.03,19.35,11.39,21.87,0.75,0,0.19,0,1.04,0.22,0,0
CentralMacedonian,23.08,19.92,20.01,8.89,21.14,3.89,0.53,0,1.03,0,1.51,0,0
CentralMacedonian,20.02,19.6,24.44,11.52,20.51,1.1,0.79,0,1.1,0.91,0,0,0
CentralMacedonian,24.32,19.78,19.27,11.46,21.06,2.55,0.31,0,0,0,1.25,0,0
CentralMacedonian,21.4,19.31,21.83,13.53,18.74,3.36,0,0.59,0,0.93,0.31,0,0
CentralMacedonian,24.57,20.39,23.71,11.77,15.85,2.44,1.27,0,0,0,0,0,0
CentralMacedonian,24.31,20.31,21.45,12.17,19.52,0.53,0,0.46,0.85,0,0,0.36,0
CentralMacedonian,25.74,19.17,18.22,9.22,23.84,1.97,0,1.84,0,0,0,0,0
CentralMacedonian,24.87,18.4,18.76,13.55,20.15,2.56,0,1.07,0.17,0,0.48,0,0
CentralMacedonian,24.27,18.19,21.47,12.65,20.38,2.18,0,0,0.17,0.6,0,0,0.09

**catgeorge** · 04-28-2021, 09:18 PM

Originally Posted by JohnnyP

Can you try also with Central Macedonians

Code:

CentralMacedonian,23.4,17.66,22.46,10.96,21.79,0.61,0,0,1.28,1.39,0.45,0,0
CentralMacedonian,24.95,18.23,16.98,11.13,23.42,2.32,0.24,0.65,0.42,1.29,0,0.3,0.05
CentralMacedonian,26.15,19.03,19.35,11.39,21.87,0.75,0,0.19,0,1.04,0.22,0,0
CentralMacedonian,23.08,19.92,20.01,8.89,21.14,3.89,0.53,0,1.03,0,1.51,0,0
CentralMacedonian,20.02,19.6,24.44,11.52,20.51,1.1,0.79,0,1.1,0.91,0,0,0
CentralMacedonian,24.32,19.78,19.27,11.46,21.06,2.55,0.31,0,0,0,1.25,0,0
CentralMacedonian,21.4,19.31,21.83,13.53,18.74,3.36,0,0.59,0,0.93,0.31,0,0
CentralMacedonian,24.57,20.39,23.71,11.77,15.85,2.44,1.27,0,0,0,0,0,0
CentralMacedonian,24.31,20.31,21.45,12.17,19.52,0.53,0,0.46,0.85,0,0,0.36,0
CentralMacedonian,25.74,19.17,18.22,9.22,23.84,1.97,0,1.84,0,0,0,0,0
CentralMacedonian,24.87,18.4,18.76,13.55,20.15,2.56,0,1.07,0.17,0,0.48,0,0
CentralMacedonian,24.27,18.19,21.47,12.65,20.38,2.18,0,0,0.17,0.6,0,0,0.09

Not as close - first three matches aligns with bottom three matches from Greece.. so first three matches would have hightened Greek input as I score super high Greek_Athens

Distance to: Sarakatsani
5.61245935 CentralMacedonian
5.70592674 CentralMacedonian
5.95376352 CentralMacedonian
6.42858460 CentralMacedonian
6.73672769 CentralMacedonian
6.92486823 CentralMacedonian
7.30267759 CentralMacedonian
7.53998011 CentralMacedonian
7.92065023 CentralMacedonian
8.08700810 CentralMacedonian
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11.26391140 CentralMacedonian