Dodecad k12b West & Central Asian results Vol 4.

[Leto]

Hello everyone. Leto, Kyp, Aren - I appreciate the work you're doing.
And I've learned that the original K12b spreadsheet had a lot of population groups with atypical average results?
In particular when it comes to the Caucasus scores among Assyrians, Mandeans and Armenians.
For instance, the Assyrian Caucasus score shouldn't be anywhere near as high as 52.2% and the North Euro score anywhere near as low as 0.9% even if you divide the group into North, South and West?
It seems the non-Beduin peoples of the Iranian Peninsula, Mesopotamia, East Anatolia, South Caucasus and the Levant aren't as distinctly different as the original Dodecad K12b spreadsheet could have you believe.

Are you/they still adding results from here to the Vahaduo updated K12b spreadsheet?
If so, I think you should only add those with known identity, in order to avoid skewed results due to confirmation bias.
The Turkmen_Iraq group seem to be based entirely on the Turkish-sounding names on the Iraq DNA project?
I think a big chunk of the individuals in those tests have known mixed ancestry, even if they have a Turkish, Kurdish, Christian or tribal Arabic name.
We also have to remember that just because someone is scoring like a Kurd_Kurmanji or Azerbaijani_Dagestan doesn't mean he identifies as such.
The results of randomly discovered kit numbers and K12b results of unknown individuals shouldn't be added to any of the population groups in my opinion.


These are my results. Kurd, Kermanshah province, Sunni.
Gedrosia: 25.74%
Siberian: 0.61%
NWAfrican: 1.16%
SEAsian: 0.35%
Atlantic-Med: 7.78%
North European: 8.42%
S Asian: 3.10%
E African: 0.73%
SW Asian: 14.41%
E Asian: 0.39%
Caucasus: 37.30%
Sub Saharan: 0.00%

In Vahaduo format:
Kurd_Kermanshah,25.74,0.61,1.16,0.35,8.42,7.78,3.1 0,0.73,14.41,0.39,37.30,0.00

This was an interesting result I came across. Not sure how common it is in that region, but it's a Kurd from Dohuk.
Gedrosia: 24.67%
Siberian: 0.81%
NWAfrican: 0.13%
SEAsian: 0.00%
Atlantic-Med: 9.55%
North European: 4.65%
S Asian: 0.81%
E African: 0.70%
SW Asian: 17.97%
E Asian: 0.97%
Caucasus: 39.54%
Sub Saharan: 0.21%

Kurd_Dohuk,24.67,0.81,0.13,0.00,9.55,4.65,0.81,0.7 0,17.97,0.97,39.54,0.21

Hi and welcome!
We try and find the best available samples. The current spreadsheet is a huge improvement compared to the original one. Iraqi Turkmens are supposed to score similar to Azerbaijanis and Kurds, so I don't think the average is all too far from reality. But the sample size isn't big, you're right. Your own results are appreciated.

[Zagrosian]

Hi and welcome!
We try and find the best available samples. The current spreadsheet is a huge improvement compared to the original one. Iraqi Turkmens are supposed to score similar to Azerbaijanis and Kurds, so I don't think the average is all too far from reality. But the sample size isn't big, you're right. Your own results are appreciated.

Thanks!

I think the Iraqi Turkmens are a very diverse group, stemming from different waves of Turkic migration, from Anatolia, Iran/Azerbaijan and Central Asia, which hasn't homogenized into one distinct group. Some have lived relatively isolated whereas others are intertwined and hard to distinguish from their local Kurdish or Arabic co-religionists.
I think you would struggle to find many Sunni Kirkuki Turkmens with four Turkmen grandparents. It's a group that is and has been very prone to marry outside their ethnic group. This is why so many of them are more into Iraqi nationalism than pan-Turkism.
Where do we draw the line between what is an Iraqi Turkmen and what is an Iraqi of mixed ancestry?

I think the Iraqi_Turkmen average is not representative at all of the Shia Turkmen of Tuz Khurmatu, south Kirkuk province and Tal Afar.
These groups have lived more isolated from Arabs. I don't think their South-West Asian score would be higher than Kurds'.

[Zagrosian]

Assyrian_North,18.39,0.1,1.16,0.16,10.77,2.3,0.67, 0.09,19.02,0.11,47.22,0
Assyrian_South,17.88,0.14,1.52,0.19,10.92,2.02,0.7 4,0.28,19.27,0.17,46.83,0.02
Assyrian_West,17.46,0.09,1.42,0.13,11.51,2.31,0.47 ,0.17,19.11,0.11,47.21,0.02


What regions or subgroups do these refer to and where are the results taken from?
West = Syriac Orthodox from Mardin/Qamishli area?
South = Iraqi Chaldeans?
North = Urmia / Hakkari Nestorians?

It seems that the remarkable results of Sardinians, Basques, Iranian Lurs, Saudis and Assyrians in the old spreadsheets that are still circulating is partly due to seemingly mixed individuals being filtered out of the group in favor of the seemingly least mixed ones.
I can see how or why that would be useful or interesting, but it could also mislead people into thinking that's how average results look from those groups. I didn't for one second believe that the average Saudi will score only 0.30% Sub-Saharan, but the Assyrian average seemed plausible since it's a much smaller and more endogamic group.

@Aren
I think I read a post where you said you aren't motivated to post Assyrian results because you find them boring. If that's the case, then I have to strongly disagree with that.
I'm very interested in finding out how common it is for Assyrians to score over 50% Caucasus and less than 1% North Euro.
Please share with us more results from different denominations/towns if you have any.

[chinshen]

Assyrian_North,18.39,0.1,1.16,0.16,10.77,2.3,0.67, 0.09,19.02,0.11,47.22,0
Assyrian_South,17.88,0.14,1.52,0.19,10.92,2.02,0.7 4,0.28,19.27,0.17,46.83,0.02
Assyrian_West,17.46,0.09,1.42,0.13,11.51,2.31,0.47 ,0.17,19.11,0.11,47.21,0.02


What regions or subgroups do these refer to and where are the results taken from?
West = Syriac Orthodox from Mardin/Qamishli area?
South = Iraqi Chaldeans?
North = Urmia / Hakkari Nestorians?

It seems that the remarkable results of Sardinians, Basques, Iranian Lurs, Saudis and Assyrians in the old spreadsheets that are still circulating is partly due to seemingly mixed individuals being filtered out of the group in favor of the seemingly least mixed ones.
I can see how or why that would be useful or interesting, but it could also mislead people into thinking that's how average results look from those groups. I didn't for one second believe that the average Saudi will score only 0.30% Sub-Saharan, but the Assyrian average seemed plausible since it's a much smaller and more endogamic group.

@Aren
I think I read a post where you said you aren't motivated to post Assyrian results because you find them boring. If that's the case, then I have to strongly disagree with that.
I'm very interested in finding out how common it is for Assyrians to score over 50% Caucasus and less than 1% North Euro.
Please share with us more results from different denominations/towns if you have any.

Here are my results:

Gedrosia 17.45
Siberian -
Northwest African 1.97
Southeast Asian -
Atlantic Med 9.82
North European 2.02
South Asian 0.24
East African -
Southwest Asian 19.57
East Asian -
Caucasus 48.88
Sub Saharan 0.05

[Kyp]

Assyrian_North,18.39,0.1,1.16,0.16,10.77,2.3,0.67, 0.09,19.02,0.11,47.22,0
Assyrian_South,17.88,0.14,1.52,0.19,10.92,2.02,0.7 4,0.28,19.27,0.17,46.83,0.02
Assyrian_West,17.46,0.09,1.42,0.13,11.51,2.31,0.47 ,0.17,19.11,0.11,47.21,0.02


What regions or subgroups do these refer to and where are the results taken from?
West = Syriac Orthodox from Mardin/Qamishli area?
South = Iraqi Chaldeans?
North = Urmia / Hakkari Nestorians?

It seems that the remarkable results of Sardinians, Basques, Iranian Lurs, Saudis and Assyrians in the old spreadsheets that are still circulating is partly due to seemingly mixed individuals being filtered out of the group in favor of the seemingly least mixed ones.
I can see how or why that would be useful or interesting, but it could also mislead people into thinking that's how average results look from those groups. I didn't for one second believe that the average Saudi will score only 0.30% Sub-Saharan, but the Assyrian average seemed plausible since it's a much smaller and more endogamic group.

@Aren
I think I read a post where you said you aren't motivated to post Assyrian results because you find them boring. If that's the case, then I have to strongly disagree with that.
I'm very interested in finding out how common it is for Assyrians to score over 50% Caucasus and less than 1% North Euro.
Please share with us more results from different denominations/towns if you have any.

The Iraqi_Turkmen average is my made from samples listed as Turkmen from Iraqi DNA Project aswell as from persons that identified as Turkmen and posted their results online. So far there has not been a result that didn't fit this average imo or that was a strong outlier.
In case of Iraq Turkmens and them being almost always mixed, I think then it's ok if the average reflects it in this case. Otherwise they could score like Turks or Azerbaijanis for example.

But it will surely improve as more samples will be found.

[Zagrosian]

Here are my results:

Gedrosia 17.45
Siberian -
Northwest African 1.97
Southeast Asian -
Atlantic Med 9.82
North European 2.02
South Asian 0.24
East African -
Southwest Asian 19.57
East Asian -
Caucasus 48.88
Sub Saharan 0.05

Thank you for sharing your results. It seems you would fall somewhere between the old and the 3 new Assyrian population data avg.
May I ask what town(s) you hail from and which denomination?

[Zagrosian]

The Iraqi_Turkmen average is my made from samples listed as Turkmen from Iraqi DNA Project aswell as from persons that identified as Turkmen and posted their results online. So far there has not been a result that didn't fit this average imo or that was a strong outlier.
In case of Iraq Turkmens and them being almost always mixed, I think then it's ok if the average reflects it in this case. Otherwise they could score like Turks or Azerbaijanis for example.

But it will surely improve as more samples will be found.

Hmm...interesting. I haven't seen any Iraqi Turkmen results apart from the ones with Turkish names in the Iraqi DNA project.
Do you know if any of those Turkmens that posted their results online had Shia background from Salahaddin/Kirkuk governorates?

[Kyp]

Hmm...interesting. I haven't seen any Iraqi Turkmen results apart from the ones with Turkish names in the Iraqi DNA project.
Do you know if any of those Turkmens that posted their results online had Shia background from Salahaddin/Kirkuk governorates?

I think there have been 2 results from Kirkuk posted in Turkish DNA facebook group. But I don't know their background.

Unrelated:

Azerbaijani (Republci) from northwestern Salyan:


Gedrosia: 21.90
Siberian: 1.62
NW_African: 1.29
SE_Asian: 0.05
Atlantic_Med: 9.17
North_European: 10.59
South Asian: 4.42
East_African: 0.00
SW_Asian: 12.24
East_Asian: 1.05
Caucasus: 37.67
SSA: 0.00

Distance to: Azerbaijani_Salyan
4.04497219 Azerbaijani_Karabakh
4.13800677 Azerbaijani_Iran
4.23706266 Azerbaijani_Republic
5.18486258 Azerbaijani_Turkey
5.38964748 Kurd_Kurmanji
6.16614953 Azerbaijani_North
6.18945070 Turk_Southeast
6.19245509 Azerbaijani_Northwest
6.61947883 Yazidi_Kurd
7.04339407 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
7.04508339 Turkmen_Iraq
7.29834228 Talysh_Azerbaijan
7.56741039 Kurd_Sorani
8.85838586 Turk_Central_East
8.93434944 Iranian_Fars
9.31916842 Turk_South
9.43162234 Kurd_Feyli
9.67006722 Udi_Azerbaijan
9.72063270 Iranian_Lur
9.78197322 Iranian_Khorasan
10.12674183 Turk_East
10.19512138 Turk_Central_West
10.52849467 Iranian_Kerman
10.79698569 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
11.44442659 Iraqi_Baghdad

Target: Azerbaijani_Salyan
Distance: 1.6678% / 1.66781721 | ADC: 0.5x RC
41.0 Azerbaijani_Republic
24.9 Kurd_Kurmanji
22.3 Iranian_Kerman
10.6 Bulgarian_Thrace
1.2 Azerbaijani_Dagestan

[Sterling Archer]

Hmm...interesting. I haven't seen any Iraqi Turkmen results apart from the ones with Turkish names in the Iraqi DNA project.
Do you know if any of those Turkmens that posted their results online had Shia background from Salahaddin/Kirkuk governorates?

Turkmen I posted is from Kirkuk, but he is Sunni.
As for his background, per his own words, he is 100% Iraqi Turkmen, no other known non-Turkic ancestors.

[Zagrosian]

Turkmen I posted is from Kirkuk, but he is Sunni.
As for his background, per his own words, he is 100% Iraqi Turkmen, no other known non-Turkic ancestors.

Where can I find the result?