Bukharian Jews (Uzbekistan Jews)

[Mesoman]

Do you realize the first two models you presented are using the same tool I used?

The tool is very much credible. The best available.



FYI, TUR_Alalakh are Amorites:
Distance to: TUR_Alalakh_MLBA
0.01407309 SYR_Ebla_EMBA
0.02370782 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
0.02471066 Levant_LBN_Roman
0.02597549 Levant_Ashkelon_LBA
0.02676318 TUR_Arslantepe_LC
0.02695401 TUR_Arslantepe_EBA
0.02717172 Levant_LBN_MA
0.03061467 Levant_Beirut_ERoman
0.03107853 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
0.03124228 Levant_Sidon_MBA
0.03199431 Levant_Abel_IA
0.03516989 Levant_Baqah_BA
0.03580569 Levant_Hazor_MLBA
0.03702718 Levant_Beirut_IAII
0.03818175 Levant_LBN_MA_o3
0.04015237 Levant_Megiddo_IA
0.04084976 Levant_Beirut_Hellenistic
0.04104660 Levant_Ashkelon_IA2
0.04151526 Levant_Shadud_MLBA
0.04191404 TUR_Ovaoren_EBA
0.04308866 TUR_Camlibel_Tarlasi_LC
0.04377728 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
0.04440684 TUR_Titris_Hoyuk_EBA
0.04730809 IND_Roopkund_B_o
0.05028023 AZE_Caucasus_lowlands_LN

Safe to say they're predominantly Levantine with an Anatolian/Mesopotamian pull - so yes, Iraqi Jews do have arguably more Levantine ancestry than other Mizrahim.

Yes, that is what I mentioned earlier that they are the most levantine shifted mizrahis, but if they were predominantly levantine then there is no way in hell they would be in a mesopotamian cluster than levantine and that they would have less distance to assyrians and mandeans than lebanese and samaritans.

[Mesoman]

Do you realize the first two models you presented are using the same tool I used?

The tool is very much credible. The best available.



FYI, TUR_Alalakh are Amorites:
Distance to: TUR_Alalakh_MLBA
0.01407309 SYR_Ebla_EMBA
0.02370782 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
0.02471066 Levant_LBN_Roman
0.02597549 Levant_Ashkelon_LBA
0.02676318 TUR_Arslantepe_LC
0.02695401 TUR_Arslantepe_EBA
0.02717172 Levant_LBN_MA
0.03061467 Levant_Beirut_ERoman
0.03107853 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
0.03124228 Levant_Sidon_MBA
0.03199431 Levant_Abel_IA
0.03516989 Levant_Baqah_BA
0.03580569 Levant_Hazor_MLBA
0.03702718 Levant_Beirut_IAII
0.03818175 Levant_LBN_MA_o3
0.04015237 Levant_Megiddo_IA
0.04084976 Levant_Beirut_Hellenistic
0.04104660 Levant_Ashkelon_IA2
0.04151526 Levant_Shadud_MLBA
0.04191404 TUR_Ovaoren_EBA
0.04308866 TUR_Camlibel_Tarlasi_LC
0.04377728 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
0.04440684 TUR_Titris_Hoyuk_EBA
0.04730809 IND_Roopkund_B_o
0.05028023 AZE_Caucasus_lowlands_LN

Safe to say they're predominantly Levantine with an Anatolian/Mesopotamian pull - so yes, Iraqi Jews do have arguably more Levantine ancestry than other Mizrahim.

Yes, I mentioned that they are more levantine shifted than other mizrahis. However, if they were predominantly levantine it would make no sense for them to get less distance to mesopotamian populations such as assyrians and mandeans. In that case they would have gotten smaller distance to lebanese da samaritans than to assyrians and mandeans. They form the mesopotamian cluster along with other less levantine mizrahis and assyrians, mandeans and don't belong to the levantine cluster where palestinians, lebanese, druze and samaritans share their space. Iraqi jews are basically 5/8 mesopotamian 3/8 levantine. Case closed.

[SUPREEEEEME]

Yes, I mentioned that they are more levantine shifted than other mizrahis. However, if they were predominantly levantine it would make no sense for them to get less distance to mesopotamian populations such as assyrians and mandeans. In that case they would have gotten smaller distance to lebanese da samaritans than to assyrians and mandeans. They form the mesopotamian cluster along with other less levantine mizrahis and assyrians, mandeans and don't belong to the levantine cluster where palestinians, lebanese, druze and samaritans share their space. Iraqi jews are basically 5/8 mesopotamian 3/8 levantine. Case closed.

Based on currently available ancient samples, we can model Iraqi Jews like this:

Target: Iraqi_Jew
Distance: 1.8658% / 0.01865843
57.6 Levant_Sidon_MBA
38.2 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
4.2 GRC_Mycenaean

vs Assyrians using the exact same model:

Target: Assyrian
Distance: 2.0005% / 0.02000539
55.8 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
33.0 Levant_Sidon_MBA
11.2 GRC_Mycenaean

I hope you realize that where a person may plot isn't always representative of their ancestry. Much like how Western Jews plot closest to Southern Italians and Greek Islanders despite completely different histories (although when going into truly ancient components, we are very easily identifiable). For mixed populations, like Jews, autosomal distance isn't as meaningful.

[Mesoman]

Based on currently available ancient samples, we can model Iraqi Jews like this:

Target: Iraqi_Jew
Distance: 1.8658% / 0.01865843
57.6 Levant_Sidon_MBA
38.2 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
4.2 GRC_Mycenaean

vs Assyrians using the exact same model:

Target: Assyrian
Distance: 2.0005% / 0.02000539
55.8 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
33.0 Levant_Sidon_MBA
11.2 GRC_Mycenaean

I hope you realize that where a person may plot isn't always representative of their ancestry. Much like how Western Jews plot closest to Southern Italians and Greek Islanders despite completely different histories (although when going into truly ancient components, we are very easily identifiable). For mixed populations, like Jews, autosomal distance isn't as meaningful.

which model did you use for this one

[SUPREEEEEME]

which model did you use for this one

Custom

[Mesoman]

Based on currently available ancient samples, we can model Iraqi Jews like this:

Target: Iraqi_Jew
Distance: 1.8658% / 0.01865843
57.6 Levant_Sidon_MBA
38.2 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
4.2 GRC_Mycenaean

vs Assyrians using the exact same model:

Target: Assyrian
Distance: 2.0005% / 0.02000539
55.8 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
33.0 Levant_Sidon_MBA
11.2 GRC_Mycenaean

I hope you realize that where a person may plot isn't always representative of their ancestry. Much like how Western Jews plot closest to Southern Italians and Greek Islanders despite completely different histories (although when going into truly ancient components, we are very easily identifiable). For mixed populations, like Jews, autosomal distance isn't as meaningful.

About greek islanders and southern italians, they are quite heavily levantine influenced so it is not just a coincidence that western jews plot closest to these populations. Plus, as long as maternal and paternal lines aren't determined you can't really talk about how much an ethnicity or groups of people are mixed. That is the case with mizrahi jews. It is a bit silly to ignore autosomal distance.

[Mesoman]

Based on currently available ancient samples, we can model Iraqi Jews like this:

Target: Iraqi_Jew
Distance: 1.8658% / 0.01865843
57.6 Levant_Sidon_MBA
38.2 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
4.2 GRC_Mycenaean

vs Assyrians using the exact same model:

Target: Assyrian
Distance: 2.0005% / 0.02000539
55.8 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
33.0 Levant_Sidon_MBA
11.2 GRC_Mycenaean

I hope you realize that where a person may plot isn't always representative of their ancestry. Much like how Western Jews plot closest to Southern Italians and Greek Islanders despite completely different histories (although when going into truly ancient components, we are very easily identifiable). For mixed populations, like Jews, autosomal distance isn't as meaningful.

About greek islanders and southern italians, they are quite heavily levantine influenced so it is not just a coincidence that western jews plot closest to these populations. Plus, as long as maternal and paternal lines aren't determined you can't really talk about how much an ethnicity or groups of people are mixed. That is the case with mizrahi jews. It is a bit silly to ignore autosomal distance.

[Mesoman]

Custom

I still can't find that calculator. Can you put the link here or something like that?

[Pine]

Soviet mizrahi jews are descended from babylonian jews, but again as the evidence shows they are more mesopotamian than levantine so first let's get that off the way. Second of all, romaniote and western jew analogy made no sense and had no place in this conversation. western jews, for example ashkenazis have northern italian origins along with levantine origins, however in total, romaniotes obviously have more levantine in their blood because their origins is fully levantine. As for the "soviet" and mesopotamian jews, there should be a reason why they form a mesopotamian cluster and are in that cluster. If they had even slightly more significant portion of their ancestry from levant they would be closer to lebanese and samaritan populations than they are to assyrians, mandeans and armenians. It is indeniable at this point that all mizrahim have more mesopotamian ancestry than levantine and in "soviet" jews the mesopotamian origins is even stronger.

You've gone from arguing no Levantine to arguing "more mesopotamian than levantine". Please tell me how Soviet Mizrachim ended up with more Mesopotamian ancestry than those who remained in Babylonia - I'm really interested to hear this.

[Pine]

About greek islanders and southern italians, they are quite heavily levantine influenced so it is not just a coincidence that western jews plot closest to these populations. Plus, as long as maternal and paternal lines aren't determined you can't really talk about how much an ethnicity or groups of people are mixed. That is the case with mizrahi jews. It is a bit silly to ignore autosomal distance.

It's amazing that you can see this for Western Jews, but not for Mizrachim.