Dodecad k12b West & Central Asian results Vol 4.

**Mejgusu** · 11-08-2021, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Sterling Archer

...

Nice results. I heard by some who are from Kars they are Terekeme, many Azerbaijanis describe themselves as Terekkeme. I think the reason why they have just a little bit more east eurasian is that they lived more „homogeneously“, strictly speaking even this is not very true since some are mixed with Kurds for or other locals. It generally seems most Terrekemes are just regular Azerbaijanis. This Terekeme sample with huge Turkic influence seemed to be not a Terekeme if I am not wrong.

**Sterling Archer** · 11-08-2021, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by Gecko

This Terekeme sample with huge Turkic influence seemed to be not a Terekeme if I am not wrong.

I just read the information about him. His paternal side is from Ganja, Azerbaijan and his maternal side is from Shirak, Armenia which used to have large a Azerbaijani population. Shirak is close to the north west Azerbaijan, where people score the highest mongoloid. Maybe that is the reason this person has high east Eurasian ancestry.
So he is fully Azerbaijani, but maybe not Terekeme (then again I'm not sure what exactly is Terekeme).

many Azerbaijanis describe themselves as Terekkeme

This is not the case in the Republic as far as I am aware, but maybe it is in Turkey. Also, as I previously shared, in Dagestan there is a whole are near Derbent that is populated by Azerbaijanis. They call themselves Terekeme.
Interestingly, they are mostly Sunni Muslim, while the Derbent Azerbaijanis are (hardcore

)Shia/

**Mejgusu** · 11-08-2021, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by Sterling Archer

I just read the information about him. His paternal side is from Ganja, Azerbaijan and his maternal side is from Shirak, Armenia which used to have large a Azerbaijani population. Shirak is close to the north west Azerbaijan, where people score the highest mongoloid. Maybe that is the reason this person has high east Eurasian ancestry.
So he is fully Azerbaijani, but maybe not Terekeme (then again I'm not sure what exactly is Terekeme).

That sounds interesting, that would mean this is the most Turkic Azerbaijani sample.

Terekeme comes from Arabic and means Türkmen, basically a subgruop of Azerbaijani people. Not all of them are only of Oghuz but also of Kipchak origin.

This is not the case in the Republic as far as I am aware, but maybe it is in Turkey. Also, as I previously shared, in Dagestan there is a whole are near Derbent that is populated by Azerbaijanis. They call themselves Terekeme.

Yes I meant Azerbaijanis from Turkey, at least those which I met claimed to be Terekeme. There are also some in Daghestan like you said.

**Sterling Archer** · 11-08-2021, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by Gecko

That sounds interesting, that would mean this is the most Turkic Azerbaijani sample.

This Azerbaijani from Shamkir has the highest east Eurasian ancestry as far as I am aware:

Gedrosia 18.03
Siberian 3.1
NW_African 0.79
SE_Asian 0.88
Atlantic_Med 8.89
North_European 10.23
South_Asian 1.2
East_African -
SW_Asian 12.87
East_Asian 8
Caucasus 36.01
SSA -

**Leto** · 11-08-2021, 03:15 PM

This Turkmen from the dataset I posted a few days ago is the least Mongoloid, almost purely Iranian

Turkmen:Turkmen339,27.31,1.89,0.00,1.80,6.83,8.18,4.81,0.79,8.81,2.40,37.17,0.00

Distance to: Turkmen:Turkmen339
4.97335903 Iranian_Central
5.11813443 Iranian_Zoroastrian
6.35544648 Iranian_Khorasan
6.79070689 Iranian_Fars
6.81217293 Talysh_Azerbaijan
6.84426767 Yazidi_Kurd
6.93237333 Azerbaijani_Iran
7.15349565 Iranian_Kerman
7.21812995 Kurd_Sorani
7.61287725 Dersim

Distance to: Turkmen:Turkmen339
2.85606272 69.00% Iranian_Mazandaran + 31.00% Turk_Northwest
2.93372688 18.80% Georgian_West + 81.20% Iranian_Khorasan
2.93870386 76.60% Iranian_Khorasan + 23.40% Turk_Ahiska
2.94734553 80.80% Iranian_Khorasan + 19.20% Laz
2.95415867 24.40% Georgian_Kartli-Kakheti + 75.60% Iranian_Khorasan
2.96319809 17.40% Pamiri_Wakhan + 82.60% Talysh_Azerbaijan
2.97081420 23.20% Burusho + 76.80% Udi_Azerbaijan
2.99523167 19.40% Tajik_Kabul + 80.60% Talysh_Azerbaijan
3.06060993 25.80% Tajik_Herat + 74.20% Talysh_Azerbaijan
3.07537350 52.20% Iranian_Khorasan + 47.80% Talysh_Azerbaijan

Target: Turkmen:Turkmen339
Distance: 1.3237% / 1.32367785 | ADC: 0.25x RC
43.9 Iranian_Mazandaran
27.9 Iranian_Khorasan
12.9 Ingush
9.6 Azerbaijani_Turkey
3.6 Sardinian
2.1 Lahu

His G25 results (my CA Steppe model)

Target: Turkmen:Turkmen339
Distance: 1.7449% / 0.01744914
43.8 IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C
27.8 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
17.0 KAZ_Aktogai_MLBA
6.2 CHN_Yellow_River_LN
4.4 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
0.8 MNG_Ulaanzuukh_Slab_Grave

**Kyp** · 11-09-2021, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by Sterling Archer

I just read the information about him. His paternal side is from Ganja, Azerbaijan and his maternal side is from Shirak, Armenia which used to have large a Azerbaijani population. Shirak is close to the north west Azerbaijan, where people score the highest mongoloid. Maybe that is the reason this person has high east Eurasian ancestry.
So he is fully Azerbaijani, but maybe not Terekeme (then again I'm not sure what exactly is Terekeme).

This is not the case in the Republic as far as I am aware, but maybe it is in Turkey. Also, as I previously shared, in Dagestan there is a whole are near Derbent that is populated by Azerbaijanis. They call themselves Terekeme.
Interestingly, they are mostly Sunni Muslim, while the Derbent Azerbaijanis are (hardcore

)Shia/

Terekeme is just an umbrella term to describe Nomadic turkic speakers. As Gecko said its just the arab version of "turkmen". Often this term gets wrongly used as a synonym for the Qarapapaq (which is a militaristic confederation of multiple tribes, similar to the Shahsevan or the Qashqai in Iran"). Maybe it was a regional term thats why it now gets mixed up with the Qarapapaq because many of the "terekeme" are Qarapapaq.

In general they score like regular Azerbaijanis. Maybe their turkic input on average is at the higher end because this whole region (independent of tribe) is more turkic in general because they were surrounded by Christians.

What's interesting is that most of those who call themselves Terekeme are Sunni muslim, while the majority of the Qarapapaqs are Shia.

Originally Posted by Gecko

That sounds interesting, that would mean this is the most Turkic Azerbaijani sample.

Terekeme comes from Arabic and means Türkmen, basically a subgruop of Azerbaijani people. Not all of them are only of Oghuz but also of Kipchak origin.

Yes I meant Azerbaijanis from Turkey, at least those which I met claimed to be Terekeme. There are also some in Daghestan like you said.

Yup

Originally Posted by Leto

This Turkmen from the dataset I posted a few days ago is the least Mongoloid, almost purely Iranian

Turkmen:Turkmen339,27.31,1.89,0.00,1.80,6.83,8.18,4.81,0.79,8.81,2.40,37.17,0.00

Distance to: Turkmen:Turkmen339
4.97335903 Iranian_Central
5.11813443 Iranian_Zoroastrian
6.35544648 Iranian_Khorasan
6.79070689 Iranian_Fars
6.81217293 Talysh_Azerbaijan
6.84426767 Yazidi_Kurd
6.93237333 Azerbaijani_Iran
7.15349565 Iranian_Kerman
7.21812995 Kurd_Sorani
7.61287725 Dersim

Distance to: Turkmen:Turkmen339
2.85606272 69.00% Iranian_Mazandaran + 31.00% Turk_Northwest
2.93372688 18.80% Georgian_West + 81.20% Iranian_Khorasan
2.93870386 76.60% Iranian_Khorasan + 23.40% Turk_Ahiska
2.94734553 80.80% Iranian_Khorasan + 19.20% Laz
2.95415867 24.40% Georgian_Kartli-Kakheti + 75.60% Iranian_Khorasan
2.96319809 17.40% Pamiri_Wakhan + 82.60% Talysh_Azerbaijan
2.97081420 23.20% Burusho + 76.80% Udi_Azerbaijan
2.99523167 19.40% Tajik_Kabul + 80.60% Talysh_Azerbaijan
3.06060993 25.80% Tajik_Herat + 74.20% Talysh_Azerbaijan
3.07537350 52.20% Iranian_Khorasan + 47.80% Talysh_Azerbaijan

Target: Turkmen:Turkmen339
Distance: 1.3237% / 1.32367785 | ADC: 0.25x RC
43.9 Iranian_Mazandaran
27.9 Iranian_Khorasan
12.9 Ingush
9.6 Azerbaijani_Turkey
3.6 Sardinian
2.1 Lahu

His G25 results (my CA Steppe model)

Target: Turkmen:Turkmen339
Distance: 1.7449% / 0.01744914
43.8 IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C
27.8 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
17.0 KAZ_Aktogai_MLBA
6.2 CHN_Yellow_River_LN
4.4 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
0.8 MNG_Ulaanzuukh_Slab_Grave

Yes. Although this result is a clear outlier. The remaining results scored higher East Eurasian than previous Turkmenistan averages made us believe.

**Kyp** · 11-09-2021, 04:04 PM

Iranian result 50% from West Azerbaijani province 50% From Eastern Zanjan/Western Qazvin (azeri/persian mix):

Gedrosian: 25.06
Siberian: 4.06
Northwest_African: 0.40
Southeast_Asian: 0.87
Atlantic_Med: 6.00
North_European: 7.38
South_Asian 4.70
East_African 0.00
Southwest_Asian: 11.30
East_Asian: 2.78
Caucasian: 37.36
SSA: 0.32

Distance to: Urmzqazvin
4.45893485 Azerbaijani_Iran
4.86762776 Iranian_Central
5.88944819 Iranian_Zoroastrian
5.94934450 Azerbaijani_Republic
5.97703940 Talysh_Azerbaijan
6.04780125 Kurd_Sorani
6.04804927 Yazidi_Kurd
6.22106904 Kurd_Kurmanji
6.23411582 Iranian_Fars
6.48803514 Dersim
6.83493233 Kurd_Feyli
6.87106251 Iranian_Lur
6.97360739 Azerbaijani_Turkey
7.34092637 Turkmen_Iraq
7.49323695 Iranian_Khorasan
8.26387318 Iranian_Kerman
8.89460511 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
9.41289010 Turk_Southeast
10.32628684 Iranian_Mazandaran
11.86213303 Udi_Azerbaijan
12.06177848 Turk_South
12.27876215 Turk_Central_East
12.72581235 Turk_East
13.05498755 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
13.08502579 Iraqi_Baghdad

Target: Urmzqazvin
Distance: 1.5545% / 1.55446843 | ADC: 0.5x RC
58.2 Azerbaijani_Iran
24.3 Iranian_Mazandaran
16.1 Turkmen_TM
1.4 Iranian_Central

Azerbaijani from Zangilan (Southern Karabakh bordering Iran):

Gedrosian: 20-80
Siberian: 3.02
Northwest_African: 1.49
Southeast_Asian: 0.79
Atlantic_Med: 7.31
North_European: 9.76
South_Asian 0.79
East_African 0.61
Southwest_Asian: 13.77
East_Asian: 3.35
Caucasian: 38.31
SSA: 0.00

Distance to: Azeri_Zangilan
3.22891623 Azerbaijani_Republic
3.42804609 Azerbaijani_Iran
4.46931762 Azerbaijani_Turkey
4.94512892 Turk_Southeast
5.92401891 Dersim
6.05391609 Kurd_Kurmanji
6.72065473 Turkmen_Iraq
7.54321549 Yazidi_Kurd
7.77045687 Talysh_Azerbaijan
7.78066835 Turk_Central_East
7.79086645 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
7.82501757 Turk_South
8.18170520 Kurd_Sorani
9.07049613 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
9.36565000 Iranian_Central
9.37992004 Turk_East
9.43127245 Turk_Central_West
9.49789450 Udi_Azerbaijan
9.58066804 Iranian_Zoroastrian
9.76691865 Kurd_Feyli
10.26165191 Iranian_Lur
10.35806449 Iraqi_Baghdad
10.48407364 Iranian_Fars
11.63819574 Turk_West_BlackSea
11.65223584 Turk_Southwest

Target: Azeri_Zangilan
Distance: 1.3710% / 1.37103951 | ADC: 0.25x RC
63.9 Azerbaijani_Republic
24.5 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
7.9 Saudi
1.9 Kyrgyz_Pamir
1.3 Nogai
0.5 Lezgin

**Leto** · 11-09-2021, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by Kyp

Yes. Although this result is a clear outlier. The remaining results scored higher East Eurasian than previous Turkmenistan averages made us believe.

Well, the previous TM average has always looked a bit unrealistic to me. I don't think Turkmenistanis are 15-17% East Eurasian on average. 25-30% would look a lot more realistic IMO.

**Kyp** · 11-09-2021, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by Leto

Well, the previous TM average has always looked a bit unrealistic to me. I don't think Turkmenistanis are 15-17% East Eurasian on average. 25-30% would look a lot more realistic IMO.

Agree