NW Croat vs Czech-Slovak members PCA

[Jana]

But those dialects along the border with Slovenia are more like Slovene? I mean it's a such a small territory, why would they be radically different from each other?

Slovenian itself is not uniform btw. Actually very far from that.

"There are 46 different dialects in Slovenia"

On account of only 2.3 million people speaking the language, the 46 dialects of Slovenian language, often classifies Slovene as the most diverse Slavic Language. Slovenian dialects are categorized into seven regional groups: Carinthian, Upper Carniolan, Lower Carniolan, Littoral, Rovte, Styrian, and Pannonian. Sometimes dialects can be so different from one other, that it is hard for people from different parts of Slovenia to understand each other. The diversity of the Slovenian language is well captured in a Slovene proverb “Vsaka vas ima svoj glas “, meaning “every village has its own voice.”

https://theculturetrip.com/europe/sl...nian-language/

[rothaer]

Differences between the dialactes are a lot bigger than the 'what' usage using kaj, ča or što. It is just that dialactes were named after the usage of 'what'.

That I was aware of, so I expressly limited my statement to that one word. After what Alenka wrote I got one important thing wrong, but the conclusion might be applicable as well. I'll wait for what she answers to my latest post...

[Leto]

Slovenian itself is not uniform btw. Actually very far from that.

"There are 46 different dialects in Slovenia"

On account of only 2.3 million people speaking the language, the 46 dialects of Slovenian language, often classifies Slovene as the most diverse Slavic Language. Slovenian dialects are categorized into seven regional groups: Carinthian, Upper Carniolan, Lower Carniolan, Littoral, Rovte, Styrian, and Pannonian. Sometimes dialects can be so different from one other, that it is hard for people from different parts of Slovenia to understand each other. The diversity of the Slovenian language is well captured in a Slovene proverb “Vsaka vas ima svoj glas “, meaning “every village has its own voice.”

https://theculturetrip.com/europe/sl...nian-language/

It is fascinating how they have managed to survive on such a small territory well into modern times.

[Alenka]

So there was a same root that developed into koji in Shtokavian and kaj in Kajkavian. So if I get you right, it's also not about a real absence of that word in the respective other dialect, but seemingly a question of how the usage developed.

Yes.

Is there any time estimate for that development?

I don't know.

And what does koji mean in Shtokavian?

It means which.

[rothaer]

[And what does koji mean in Shtokavian?]

(...) It means which.

This is thinkworthy. Leto, afaik a Russian, wrote above: "Kakov is practically the same as kakoj, both mean which (welch) and kak means how (wie)."

Now, is it by chance that Shtokavian koji means the same (i. e. which) as Russian kakov or does kaj and koji in fact have the same etymological root as kak(ov), as I initially took for granted?

[Alenka]

[And what does koji mean in Shtokavian?]



This is thinkworthy. Leto, afaik a Russian, wrote above: "Kakov is practically the same as kakoj, both mean which (welch) and kak means how (wie)."

Now, is it by chance that Shtokavian koji means the same (i. e. which) as Russian kakov or has kaj and koji in fact the same etymological root as kak(ov), as I initially took for granted?

Kak and kakov are from the root kakъ.
Kaj and koji are from the root kъjь.

[rothaer]

Kak and kakov are from the root kakъ.
Kaj and koji are from the root kъjь.

That I understand. My question aims at if kakъ and kъjь do have a common root. (And hence Shtokavian koji and Russian kakov (both means which) do not by chance have the same meaning, but by a common etymological root.)

[Alenka]

That I understand. My question aims at if kakъ and kъjь do have a common root. (And hence Shtokavian koji and Russian kakov (both means which) do not by chance have the same meaning, but by a common etymological root.)

It's all vaguely related, but kakъ and kъjь are different root branches.
There's also another third branch.
Here's all three:
- *jь, *čьjь, *jьnъ, *kъjь, *onъ, *ovъ, *sь, *tъ, *vьśь
- *jakъ, *jьnakъ, *kakъ, *onakъ, *ovakъ, *sicь, *takъ, *vьśakъ
- *koterъ, *jeterъ

[vbnetkhio]

That I understand. My question aims at if kakъ and kъjь do have a common root. (And hence Shtokavian koji and Russian kakov (both means which) do not by chance have the same meaning, but by a common etymological root.)

in IE languages interrogative pronouns generally begin with a H or K sound, that's the connection

[rothaer]

It's all vaguely related, but kakъ and kъjь are different root branches.
There's also another third branch.
Here's all three:
- *jь, *čьjь, *jьnъ, *kъjь, *onъ, *ovъ, *sь, *tъ, *vьśь
- *jakъ, *jьnakъ, *kakъ, *onakъ, *ovakъ, *sicь, *takъ, *vьśakъ
- *koterъ, *jeterъ

In general I know this with examples within Germanic languages. So this is how it works within living languages. But as the Slavic language family is notably younger (than the Germanic), I'm surprised by this range of branches' contents. What you say (the common root) must precede proto-Slavic if we define this with the language spoken per 500 AD, right? Even what you present to be within one branch seems to me very old. But who knows? I note this stunning o/p/k equivalent stated by your examples, but okay, this jezero / ozero equivalence I know myself and the to me (surprising) k / j equivalence (visible in your examples!) strongly supports kak and kaj to be the same!