Rank the Germanic admixture

[Blondie]

Volga Germans are western-southwestern Germans by origin, unmixed Volga Germans don't have any east European. Same applies to unmixed Transylvanian Saxons and Danube Swabians, these people are all SW/W German colonists in the east, they have nothing to do with eastern Germans let alone with eastern Europeans in vast majority of cases.

But danube swabians identify themselves as eastern germans and majority of them have partly hungarian ancestry 1/4, half etc.

[J. Ketch]

The East German average on K13 (not NE Germans obviously) is modelled in 2-way as half Celto-Germanic West German, half Polish. Weird that they mixed twice, but how much Germanic do they realistically have?

[J. Ketch]

What century is your map from? it's not accurate for early medieval or even medieval as it doesn't even have any Gaelic in Galloway.

11th century Scotland


15th century Scotland

The yellow which I didn't mention represents where Scots was spoken by the 20th century, orange by the 15th, red - Early Medieval. According to wiki anyway.

[Jana]

But danube swabians identify themselves as eastern germans and majority of them have partly hungarian ancestry 1/4, half etc.

Their origin is unrelated with east Germans except in tiny minority (Banat Swabians in minority descend from central Germans who have some Slavic, I have one such surname). You can't use example of people who stayed in communist Hungary or Romania as representative, most were expelled to west Germany and Austria and were unmixed. Most likely those that were not expelled were already mixed with eg. Hungarians and thus spared deportation. Rural Swabians married with their own people and kept to themselves.

You can see results of TA Volga German user yowasgeht in Germany and his family, they are pure west Germans.

[J. Ketch]

The East German average on K13 (not NE Germans obviously) is modelled in 2-way as half Celto-Germanic West German, half Polish. Weird that they mixed twice, but how much Germanic do they realistically have?

Closest 2-ways for them from the whole sheet

Distance to: German_East
0.61769895 54.60% Polish_Silesia + 45.40% Dutch_South
0.70622479 58.80% Polish_Silesia + 41.20% French_Northwest
0.75281217 43.60% Polish_Silesia + 56.40% German
0.86302742 49.00% Polish_Mazovia + 51.00% Flemish
0.96969296 49.20% Polish_Mazovia + 50.80% Belgian
0.99607653 48.40% Polish_Mazovia + 51.60% Dutch_South
1.00208508 55.00% Polish_Silesia + 45.00% Flemish
1.04182752 48.40% French_Northwest + 51.60% Ukrainian
1.04733230 37.80% Polish_Mazovia + 62.20% German
1.04982329 59.00% French_Northeast + 41.00% Lithuanian

Target: German_East
Distance: 0.2692% / 0.26915544 | R3P
47.3 Polish_Silesia
29.4 English_Southwest
23.3 Austrian

They appear to be a 3-way Celto-Slavo-Germanic mix, unlike those from Mecklenburg-Vorpommern.

[Blondie]

Their origin is unrelated with east Germans except in tiny minority (Banat Swabians in minority descend from central Germans who have some Slavic, I have one such surname). You can't use example of people who stayed in communist Hungary or Romania as representative, most were expelled to west Germany and Austria and were unmixed. Most likely those that were not expelled were already mixed with eg. Hungarians and thus spared deportation. Rural Swabians married with their own people and kept to themselves.

You can see results of TA Volga German user yowasgeht in Germany and his family, they are pure west Germans.

No, not really, danube swabians are minority everywhere except some village, they are mixing with hungarians, i think transylvanian saxons do same. We are in the 21. century. I dont know any danube swabian who has no any hungarian ancestor.

[J. Ketch]

Have there been any pure South Tyrolean, Danube/Banat Swabian or Transylvania Saxon results posted? I can't remember.

I found a bunch of South Russia/Ukraine (Volga?) Germans on Gedmatch and they seem very Northern/Germanic honestly, maybe they were outliers.

[Dunai]

All of these are very havily Celtic admixed groups, not sure who is least Germanic but some subgroups of eastern Germans are most Germanic by far out of these.

Those from Mecklenburg can be modeled as 70% early Germanic and 30% proto Slavic (see wife and family of user Rothaer), and they artificially cluster with Swedes on K13/G25. North-eastern Germans will have lot of Germanic, because their German settler part was low German and did not have much Celtic unlike high German speakers/south Dutch etc.

Least Germanic maybe south Tyroleans and Austrians from Carinthia, Styria, Burgenland.

Technically that's how they should be however I seen some Transylvania Saxon results posted on this forum that looked pretty Balkanic, which means at certain point in time they mixed with Székelys and Romanians, their immediate neighbors. Same can be said about Danube Swabians, they also mixed with the Hungarians of the Pannonian Plain, so today they will plot basically as Austrians, who might be the least Germanic group genetically. We really need some representative averages for both Transylvanian Saxons and Danube Swabians, it's really hard to find unmixed individuals. In Germany there must live hundreds of thousands of such people, since during Communism they migrated there, especially leaving Romania.

[Dunai]

Closest 2-ways for them from the whole sheet

Distance to: German_East
0.61769895 54.60% Polish_Silesia + 45.40% Dutch_South
0.70622479 58.80% Polish_Silesia + 41.20% French_Northwest
0.75281217 43.60% Polish_Silesia + 56.40% German
0.86302742 49.00% Polish_Mazovia + 51.00% Flemish
0.96969296 49.20% Polish_Mazovia + 50.80% Belgian
0.99607653 48.40% Polish_Mazovia + 51.60% Dutch_South
1.00208508 55.00% Polish_Silesia + 45.00% Flemish
1.04182752 48.40% French_Northwest + 51.60% Ukrainian
1.04733230 37.80% Polish_Mazovia + 62.20% German
1.04982329 59.00% French_Northeast + 41.00% Lithuanian

Target: German_East
Distance: 0.2692% / 0.26915544 | R3P
47.3 Polish_Silesia
29.4 English_Southwest
23.3 Austrian

They appear to be a 3-way Celto-Slavo-Germanic mix, unlike those from Mecklenburg-Vorpommern.

Yes, East Germans are such an oddity in a way, since they are pretty distant from any other population, only Austrians come somewhat close to them, but they also because they have this curious Alpine German-South/West Slavic ancestry.

[Peterski]

I found a bunch of South Russia/Ukraine (Volga?) Germans on Gedmatch and they seem very Northern/Germanic honestly

You probably found Mennonites from South Russia/Ukraine. Unmixed Volga Germans are more like South Germans than Northern Germanic.