Rank the Germanic admixture

[rothaer]

The least Germanic of East Germans could be the ones who lived in easternmost areas - West Prussia, Provinz Posen, Upper Silesia, easternmost part of Pommern, part of Lower Silesia to the east of the Odra River, also in this part of East Prussia which is today Kaliningrad Oblast.

Probably also Vilamovians, but who knows.

You have completely untouched "Poles" among the Upper Siliesians imo.

I was somewhat in an argument with a German nationalist from there (myself being a German nationalist), that completely rejected the applicability of genetic results showing that he and his family had kind of 93% EE at 23andMe (and 2% French & German). Which is above the Polish mean for EE even? However, I know exactly how these folks voted and identified still in 1907.

[Dunai]

I don't have any data that I can claim to be representative. But I can tell that I saw a 23andMe result for a Transsylvanian Saxon that showed just 7% or less EE at 23andMe. (I as an indigenous Eastern German get 50.7% EE!) If they in general would have mixed more with Romanians, there would not be possible a Transsylvanian Saxon with only 7% EE. Consider that they have been there for over 700 years!

The Saxons of Transylvania also mixed with Székelys as there was a pretty big overlap of territory, at one point belonging to Székelys, the next to Transylvanian Saxons, but also in reverse this happened.

[Jana]

It looks like in case of Hungary, there was far more admixture of German DNA into Hungarian gene pool than the opposite. Lot of Hungarians have significant German input, but Hungarian input in pre-WW2 Hungarian Germans seems very minor that it's even not relevant. That can be explained by Hungarians being dominant ethnic group in the Panonnian Basin so they absorbed all kind of minorities, while those who identified as German kept to themselves.

[Dunai]

It looks like in case of Hungary, there was far more admixture of German DNA into Hungarian gene pool than the opposite. Lot of Hungarians have significant German input, but Hungarian input in pre-WW2 Hungarian Germans seems very minor that it's even not relevant. That can be explained by Hungarians being dominant ethnic group in the Panonnian Basin so they absorbed all kind of minorities, while those who identified as German kept to themselves.

It can be explained by the fact that "when you went Hungarian, you didn't go back", meaning, when a German married a Hungarian they basically became culturally Hungarians, also their children, who didn't really learn German anymore. That's how Budapest, once a predominantly German-speaking city in the 19th century only in a few decades became overwhelmingly Hungarian-speaking.

[Jana]

It can be explained by the fact that "when you went Hungarian, you didn't go back", meaning, when a German married a Hungarian they basically became culturally Hungarians, also their children, who didn't really learn German anymore.

Yes, makes sense.

[rothaer]

Do you get any countries & regions assigned to your EE?

Yeah, but I consider this tool of 23andMe rather poor. I can see this by my stunning wrong assignments within Germany (showing Bavaria as #1 etc.).

I get this for EE:



Former German regions are always excluded and in light colours in Poland as I could experience, so there is always just Poland proper available. My real little Polish connection with 6.25% with Lodz area isn't even particularly higlighted. The problem for 23andMe regarding Eastern Germans is that they assign EE to them without regarding their areas being EE. This means it's impossible for an Eastern German to get his applicable ancestry area shown at 23andMe. All do get some areas in Poland as weak matches but not even the closest to German area ones like Greater Poland and Western Prussia.

[Peterski]

I have another example of Transylvanian Saxon GEDmatch results, check:

Eurogenes K13:

North_Atlantic 39.60 Pct
Baltic 25.27 Pct
West_Med 16.14 Pct
West_Asian 6.41 Pct
East_Med 8.05 Pct
Red_Sea 1.75 Pct
South_Asian 0.84 Pct
East_Asian 0.85 Pct
Siberian 0.67 Pct
Amerindian 0.09 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.29 Pct

Eurogenes K15:

Population
North_Sea 27.45 Pct
Atlantic 24.09 Pct
Baltic 14.05 Pct
Eastern_Euro 9.36 Pct
West_Med 11.78 Pct
West_Asian 4.43 Pct
East_Med 5.89 Pct
Red_Sea 1.42 Pct
South_Asian 0.59 Pct
Southeast_Asian 0.59 Pct
Siberian 0.16 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.19 Pct

And here is an example of Banat Swabian result, check:

Eurogenes K13:

Population
North_Atlantic 38.44 Pct
Baltic 25.34 Pct
West_Med 17.36 Pct
West_Asian 6.95 Pct
East_Med 9.84 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian 0.33 Pct
East_Asian -
Siberian 0.56 Pct
Amerindian 1.05 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.13 Pct

Eurogenes K15:

Population
North_Sea 26.46 Pct
Atlantic 24.65 Pct
Baltic 12.03 Pct
Eastern_Euro 10.96 Pct
West_Med 13.01 Pct
West_Asian 5.43 Pct
East_Med 6.71 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.76 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

You have completely untouched "Poles" among the Upper Siliesians imo.

What about German-speakers as of ca. 1830 for example? I've seen census results for every county of Upper Silesia since 1828 and there were Germans in all counties already at that time (if you go back to pre-1740 then maybe there were German-free areas at that time).

However, I know exactly how these folks voted and identified still in 1907.

What exactly is the importance of year 1907 that you use it so often?

[Jana]

I have another example of Transylvanian Saxon GEDmatch results, check:

Eurogenes K13:

North_Atlantic 39.60 Pct
Baltic 25.27 Pct
West_Med 16.14 Pct
West_Asian 6.41 Pct
East_Med 8.05 Pct
Red_Sea 1.75 Pct
South_Asian 0.84 Pct
East_Asian 0.85 Pct
Siberian 0.67 Pct
Amerindian 0.09 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.29 Pct

Eurogenes K15:

Population
North_Sea 27.45 Pct
Atlantic 24.09 Pct
Baltic 14.05 Pct
Eastern_Euro 9.36 Pct
West_Med 11.78 Pct
West_Asian 4.43 Pct
East_Med 5.89 Pct
Red_Sea 1.42 Pct
South_Asian 0.59 Pct
Southeast_Asian 0.59 Pct
Siberian 0.16 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.19 Pct

And here is an example of Banat Swabian result:

Eurogenes K13:

Population
North_Atlantic 38.44 Pct
Baltic 25.34 Pct
West_Med 17.36 Pct
West_Asian 6.95 Pct
East_Med 9.84 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian 0.33 Pct
East_Asian -
Siberian 0.56 Pct
Amerindian 1.05 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.13 Pct

Eurogenes K15:

Population
North_Sea 26.46 Pct
Atlantic 24.65 Pct
Baltic 12.03 Pct
Eastern_Euro 10.96 Pct
West_Med 13.01 Pct
West_Asian 5.43 Pct
East_Med 6.71 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian 0.76 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Those are same that I posted

[rothaer]

Did he score any Balkan? EE is not really marker of Romanian admixture on 23andme, it's more indicative of minor Hungarian input which would make lot more sense, due to religious and social class reasons.
But indeed 7% EE after 700 years there is incredibly low, practically nothing and proves they kept to themselves.

I unfortunately don't recall "Greece & Balkan" figures. I was focussed on EE, not being aware at that time that "G & B" also contains actual EE. But I guess I would have noticed notable "G & B" if it would have shown up.

[Peterski]

Those are same that I posted

He does seem mixed with the locals:

K13 Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 75.3% South_Dutch + 24.7% Moldavian @ 1.12

K15 Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 67.5% South_Dutch + 32.5% Hungarian @ 1.7

=====

Banat Swabian K15:

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 71.5% South_Dutch + 28.5% Serbian @ 2.53