Rank the Germanic admixture

[Jana]

He does seem mixed with the locals:

K13 Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 75.3% South_Dutch + 24.7% Moldavian @ 1.12

K15 Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 67.5% South_Dutch + 32.5% Hungarian @ 1.7

=====

Banat Swabian K15:

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 71.5% South_Dutch + 28.5% Serbian @ 2.53

I already posted his breakdown (very minor EE input), so I don't see your point. K15 is trash for eastern Europeans.

Plus you are using extremely outdated Oracle which pumped "eastern" input.
Neither was their German side closest to south Dutch. It was more southern.

[rothaer]

What exactly is the importance of year 1907 that you use it so often?

There were elections to the Reichstag where the Polish national party in these areas got majority of votes.

What about German-speakers as of ca. 1830 for example? I've seen census results for every county of Upper Silesia since 1828 and there were Germans in all counties already at that time (if you go back to pre-1740 then maybe there were German-free areas at that time).

A good question. I can just refer to Upper Silesian DNA test results, that got known to me. Maybe these German speakers were Eastern Germans and hence 50% EE anyhow. And/or they were protestant and did not mix with the Poles.

The Upper Silesian German nationalist I refrerred to in turn referred to numerous medieval German settlements in these ethnic Polish parts of Upper Silesia. And these settlements actually were notable. But the Hussitic wars seeem to have stroken the Germans hard. Germans seem to have withdrawn and consolidated in Lower Silesia at that time. Both from cities and the rural area. Lower Silesia itself had problems with covering all agrigable land with Germans due to the Hussitic wars and made good offers in that aspect, which have attracted a lot of rural German settlers from Upper Silesia. So the Hussitic wars seem to have widely de-Germanised Upper Silesia (except the known old pure German parts of it like Neiße, Neustadt etc.).

[Jana]

Regarding Banat Swabians:

A small group can be traced to Middle Germany.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banat_Swabians

Middle Germany is modern day east Germany. I have some ancestry from Banat, and one of German surnames in my family tree peaks in upper Saxony, for example.
Thus some Slavic is to be expected. However they are like all Germans in former Hungary overwhelmingly SW Germans.

[rothaer]

(...)

The mentioned Upper Silesian got this LM Genetics similarity map (cf. the contrast to Lower Silesia and arbitrary other East German areas!):

[Peterski]

The mentioned Upper Silesian got this LM Genetics similarity map:

You must be joking, and this is what Lukasz is using as DE_Oberschlesien? LOL

[rothaer]

You must be joking, and this is what Lukasz is using as DE_Oberschlesien? LOL

If you think about it, it doesn't even matter what Lukasz uses for Upper Silesia. This guy independently of that gets all these further similarities seen on the map.

(Lukasz may even have used ethnic Poles for Upper Silesia both from what was interwar Poland and German Empire. But as I said, you can mentally erase the testee's result for Upper Silesia and watch all the remaing ones.)

[Blondie]

The danube swabian assimilation started in the 19. century, when the magyarization happened. Before that we can talk about "pure" danube swabians, but after that definitely not, and we are talking about modern populations. My mom came from a danube swabian village near Budapest, and he is half german half hungarian, i visit my grandmother too very often and local danube swabians are mixing with hungarians as well.
Who were the original danube swabians? Catholic germans from Austria, Bavaria, Baden-Württemberg, Rheinland etc who migrated to central parts of Hungary, it was just a generic name for these various germans, used by hungarians. Teutone as catholic german, would be danube swabian here because danube swabians are descedants of catholic germans who migrated here and Teutone would be in this category. And no, there is no time limit of this german migration, because its continuous until the present day:



After a while they will identify themselves as danube swabians (just like in the past) because everyone use this word for local germans. And nobody will ask that "when you family came to Hungary? Not the 18-19. century? Hmm sorry then you are not danube swabian", nobody will say that. My father was 100% bavarian, he was born in Germany and everyone called him danube swabian in Budapest, later he started to identify himself danube swabian. My majority german ancestry is bavarian, so i can't be danube swabian because of it or my father side is a new generation german migrant? Bullshit, i'm danube swabian as well, because this ethnicity is different from others, because we were always descedants of verious german migrants, and we were always mixed with many different german roots. An average danube swabian is 1/4 austrian, 1/4 bavarian, 1/4 other german and 1/4 hungarian. And nobody said that every german was danube swabian in the historical Hungary, but if someone migrated to the central parts of Hungary, they became danube swabian.
Someone mentioned folk songs, danube swabian dialect etc, do you guys know how many danube swabian can speak the local german accent? NOBODY, except some 70-80 years old people. I also know just some word, thats all. Everyone use Hochdeutsch. So these things are not conditions to being danube swabian. As i said 99% of danube swabians can't speak the local dialect, hard to belive that danube swabians from Germany or USA can speak it or they feel any togetherness with this land. And im not talking about these 80 years old grannies and grandfathers who live in these countries and remember for Hungary, but the rest of them has no any such identity, but they were assimilated into the local german community.
And i don't feel mysef as "tragic remnant", its insult. We are the ones who keep the german culture in Hungary, we eat the stifolder, drink the günzer wines, we are going on a trip in Pilisch, Balaton etc. These "real" (lol) danube swabians from Germany has no idea about these things, except some older. I think they are the tragic remnants, not us.

[rothaer]

It can be explained by the fact that "when you went Hungarian, you didn't go back", meaning, when a German married a Hungarian they basically became culturally Hungarians, also their children, who didn't really learn German anymore. That's how Budapest, once a predominantly German-speaking city in the 19th century only in a few decades became overwhelmingly Hungarian-speaking.

Kind of "Once you go black, you never come back" (Quote from the mulatto-attracted German tennis player Boris Becker)?

But yes, there was a big divergence in ethnic policies between the Austrian and the Hungarain parts of the Empire. The Hungarians Magyarized others intensely.

[Jana]

^^^I can say how it was with Danube Swabians in Slavonia (eastern Croatia).

They lived in separate, fully German villages, and they did not mix either with Croats, neither with Slovaks or Hungarians, let alone Serbs or Rusyns. Despite of being Catholic. They were very closed rural community and many never even learned Croatian language. However, there were many Germans (some children or grandchildren of these Danube Swabian settlers) who went into bigger cities like Osijek (Esseg) or Zagreb (Agram) and those were assimilated, mixed with Croats, Magyars, Czechs etc.

Rural Swabians were even kind of ghettoized population, they lived with other Germans, spoke German and kept to themselves. During WW2 many of them joined the SS and they felt completely German.

After the war many were murdered in concentration camps and some fled, and those who survived were deported to Austria and west Germany.
It affected rural Swabians the most, entire villages were emptied, while urban Swabians who were often much more mixed and assimilated remained. Most of German ancestry in eastern Europeans is from such mixed people while those "real" and unmixed Germans left or were expelled. This is only way to explain why are they still heavily west German genetically today, after centuries in foreign lands.

In Hungary assimilation was greater, but still what I described applies. Rural Swabians were pretty much Germans until 1945, even politically. It's city and townsfolk people who mixed and assimilated, villagers not really.
Representatives of Transylvanian Saxons also supported unification of Transylvania with Romania against Hungarian interests.

During WW2 Banat was directly occupied by Germany and did not re-joined to Hungary. I assume local Germans preferred it so.

[rothaer]

^^^I can say how it was with Danube Swabians in Slavonia (eastern Croatia).

They lived in separate, fully German villages, and they did not mix either with Croats, neither with Slovaks or Hungarians, let alone Serbs or Rusyns. Despite of being Catholic. They were very closed rural community and many never even learned Croatian language. However, there were many Germans (some children or grandchildren of these Danube Swabian settlers) who went into bigger cities like Osijek (Esseg) or Zagreb (Agram) and those were assimilated, mixed with Croats, Magyars, Czechs etc.

Rural Swabians were even kind of ghettoized population, they lived with other Germans, spoke German and kept to themselves. During WW2 many of them joined the SS and they felt completely German.

After the war many were murdered in concentration camps and some fled, and those who survived were deported to Austria and west Germany.
It affected rural Swabians the most, entire villages were emptied, while urban Swabians who were often much more mixed and assimilated remained. Most of German ancestry in eastern Europeans is from such mixed people while those "real" and unmixed Germans left or were expelled. This is only way to explain why are they still heavily west German genetically today, after centuries in foreign lands.

In Hungary assimilation was greater, but still what I described applies. Rural Swabians were pretty much Germans until 1945, even politically. It's city and townsfolk people who mixed and assimilated, villagers not really.
Representatives of Transylvanian Saxons also supported unification of Transylvania with Romania against Hungarian interests.

During WW2 Banat was directly occupied by Germany and did not re-joined to Hungary. I assume local Germans preferred it so.

A valuable hint. I was never aware of that and it at a first glance seems surprising that this part was not given to befriended Hungary while more far-fetched areas were. And of course it can not have been in favour of this hardly existent "Serbia". This map actually depics some kind of German self government in the Banat: