Gedmatch calculators on Vahaduo

[Jana]

What ancestry test is the best if I want to do this ?

AncestryDNA by far, from currently available ones on market. Go for it.

[rothaer]

(...) But all with verified geneaology thus representative.

This is actually the case. To get 10 German samples that here meet the requirements of only regional ancestry you have to reject about 90 other samples with known genealogy!

[Leto]

It won't be shortened, it will either be accepted in this way or not at all. Dunai and others didn't put hours and days into making this, so they won't get to decide.
I don't care for regionally mixed Germans, it is not point of regional averages.

Some averages have many samples, some as little as one. But all with verified geneaology thus representative.

You can. And it's about being exact. If you consider the references you will note that not all areas are covered. So it's essentially without guesswork if it may apply to further areas or not.

Okay, so half the spreadsheet will be barely useful averages of 2-3 samples (there is no fucking way you have a decent sample size for most of them) from Southern Hessen, Northern Bavaria and even some much less understandable names like Hither Pomerania or whatever.

[Jana]

Okay, so half the spreadsheet will be barely useful averages of 2-3 samples (there is no fucking way you have a decent sample size for most of them) from Southern Hessen, Northern Bavaria and even some much less understandable names like Hither Pomerania or whatever.

"Barely useful". No. That is simply incorrect. It is not about sample size, it is about how representative they are. One representative sample does same job as more representative ones and better job than many unrepresentative ones. Samples presented here are verified for those regions, meaning typical for them. And actually, regions like south Hesse or north Bavaria (Franconia) have relatively large sample size.

Pomerania has two sub-regions with different genetics. Is it hard to google names you don't know? Hither Pomerania is English name for one of those sub regions.

To conclude, we came close to the currently available maximum for regionally pure German samples, considering rothaer has more access to them than other people do, trough German online genetic groups.
Plus what we found here or trough research on gedmatch.

When more samples are found, there will be periodic updates.

[rothaer]

Okay, so half the spreadsheet will be barely useful averages of 2-3 samples (there is no fucking way you have a decent sample size for most of them) from Southern Hessen, Northern Bavaria and even some much less understandable names like Hither Pomerania or whatever.

The smaller regions you have, the smaller is the spread in the genetic of the fully indigenous people. You can judge this by seeing the comparably low deviations between the samples. If you have 3 very similar unrelated samples there is no big additional gain in having 100 more for getting the same average. At least you don't have to refrain from starting such a spreadsheet. But of course more samples are very welcomed and also needed for improvement.

[Luke35]

Testing new source on my mother. Thank you Stearsolina and Rothaer for your hard work.

Mr. G mother paper trail:
81.25% Western and Southern German.
12.5% English
6.25% Prussian (not sure exactly)


Target: Mr.G_mom
Distance: 0.3207% / 0.32072742
48.9 German_North_Rhine
18.6 German_Lower_Saxony_south
15.5 German_North_Hesse
8.6 German_Frisian
6.5 German_Ore_Mountains_Saxony
1.9 German_Hamburg

Target: Mr.G_mom
Distance: 0.4288% / 0.42877134 | ADC: 0.25x RC
39.0 German_North_Rhine
31.1 German_Lower_Saxony_south
18.1 German_North_Hesse
6.1 German_Saxony-Anhalt_south
5.7 English_Southeast

--------------------

Distance to: Mr.G_mom
3.58949857 German_North_Rhine
4.61874442 English_Southeast
4.74882091 German_North_Hesse
5.20018269 German_Lower_Franconia
5.25781323 German_Rhineland-Palatinate
5.36198657 German_Lower_Saxony_south
5.40012963 Austrian_Upper_Austria
5.40998152 English_Midlands
5.44383137 German_Upper_Swabia
5.47213852 German_Central_Hesse
5.55437665 English
5.77104843 German_South_Hesse
5.96491408 English_Southwest
6.05297448 German_Westphalia
6.49402803 German_North_Baden
6.51280278 English_North
6.52706672 German_Bavaria_proper
6.94543015 German_Saarland
9.39480175 German_Hither_Pomerania
9.39903718 German_Saxony-Anhalt_south
9.63052439 German_Lower_Saxony_north
9.73445427 German_Schleswig-Holstein
10.03475959 German_Ore_Mountains_Saxony
10.14266237 German_Hamburg
10.63016933 German_North_Bohemia

[J. Ketch]

Great work from those involved, I know how difficult it is to find regional German samples.

This is where I think it might be useful having two updated sheets instead of one, one for more general averages with more samples, and one for smaller regions in countries. Both are just as interesting but can serve different purposes, the first more about broad ethnic modelling, the second more assessing regional variation and distances.

[Jana]

Great work from those involved, I know how difficult it is to find regional German samples.

This is where I think it might be useful having two updated sheets instead of one, one for more general averages with more samples, and one for smaller regions in countries. Both are just as interesting but can serve different purposes, the first more about broad ethnic modelling, the second more assessing regional variation and distances.

Great idea, I agree with that!

[rothaer]

Great work from those involved, I know how difficult it is to find regional German samples.

This is where I think it might be useful having two updated sheets instead of one, one for more general averages with more samples, and one for smaller regions in countries. Both are just as interesting but can serve different purposes, the first more about broad ethnic modelling, the second more assessing regional variation and distances.

Funny, this is exactly the thought that I wanted to express right now, because I can understand that all this is maybe no big advantage for Leto. For a non-German it's maybe not very important with which out of 20 regions in Germany he gets modelled, while it can be interesiting for a German. So I fully agree to that it will depend on the purpose. F. i. it's interesting for me to be modelled with German regions only. With "reduced to two poulations" I get close to my actual ancestry:

Target: rothaer
Distance: 3.2238% / 3.22379631 | R2P
52.7 German_Farther_Pomerania
47.3 German_Saxony

For non-Germans distances could be interesting as well, because Germans are close to a number of neighbors.

[rothaer]

First me and then 5 children with an untested wife1. You can see that wife1 will not have notably deviated in her ancestry composition from me - though our both ancestry actually is regionally diverse. In all following results I for curiosity emphasize my three closest pops.

Distance to: rothaer
4.39591856 German_Farther_Pomerania
4.63551507 German_Saxony
5.22375344 German_West_Prussia
7.38247926 German_North_Bohemia
7.39816869 German_Ore_Mountains_Saxony
7.59100784 German_Saxony-Anhalt_south
8.97856336 German_West_Mecklenburg
8.99742185 Austrian_Carinthia
9.32889061 German_County_Glatz
9.43978813 Austrian
9.53106500 German_Hither_Pomerania
9.59444110 Upper_Silesia
10.20698780 German_East_Prussia_Masuria
11.40726085 German
12.87113826 German_Central_Hesse
14.28801596 German_Lower_Franconia
14.63136699 German_Brandenburg_outlier(Beeskow)
14.91730874 German_Schleswig-Holstein
15.29800967 Austrian_Upper_Austria
15.42379655 German_Bavaria_proper
15.48067505 German_Hamburg
15.78507523 German_Bavarian_Swabia
15.96985598 German_Lower_Saxony_north
16.27794213 German_Lower_Saxony_south
16.55760248 German_Westphalia

Distance to: rothaer_child1
4.03254262 German_Farther_Pomerania
4.45911426 German_West_Prussia
5.52650884 German_Saxony
8.54861977 German_North_Bohemia
8.60455693 German_Ore_Mountains_Saxony
8.82580874 German_West_Mecklenburg
8.89263178 German_Saxony-Anhalt_south
9.14788500 Upper_Silesia
9.67908570 German_East_Prussia_Masuria
9.68163726 German_Hither_Pomerania
9.85894011 German_County_Glatz
10.62272564 Austrian
10.84578720 Austrian_Carinthia
12.39298592 German
13.30823429 German_Central_Hesse
14.31370672 German_Brandenburg_outlier(Beeskow)
14.93501925 German_Schleswig-Holstein
15.33886893 German_Lower_Franconia
15.93775392 Austrian_Upper_Austria
16.04737985 German_Lower_Saxony_north
16.11803958 German_Hamburg
16.66465721 German_Bavaria_proper
16.80377041 German_Bavarian_Swabia
16.83877965 German_Lower_Saxony_south
16.86918789 German_Westphalia

Distance to: rothaer_child2
3.83313188 German_Saxony
4.99533783 German_Ore_Mountains_Saxony
5.16914887 German_Saxony-Anhalt_south
5.29608346 German_North_Bohemia
5.31275823 German_Farther_Pomerania
7.40411372 German_West_Prussia
7.50016666 Austrian
7.53910472 German_West_Mecklenburg
7.70948118 German_Hither_Pomerania
7.81140832 German_County_Glatz
8.57680010 German
8.59918019 Austrian_Carinthia
10.31723316 German_Central_Hesse
11.49710833 German_Lower_Franconia
12.06489121 Upper_Silesia
12.65126081 Austrian_Upper_Austria
12.77264264 German_Schleswig-Holstein
12.81313389 German_Bavaria_proper
12.94589896 German_East_Prussia_Masuria
13.45195897 German_Hamburg
13.79381383 German_Lower_Saxony_south
13.88057996 German_Upper_Swabia
13.88482985 German_Bavarian_Swabia
13.91483381 German_Lower_Saxony_north
14.05719389 German_Westphalia

Distance to: rothaer_child3
4.06922597 German_Farther_Pomerania
4.96216687 German_Saxony
5.00148978 German_Saxony-Anhalt_south
5.55533077 German_West_Mecklenburg
5.83170644 German_Ore_Mountains_Saxony
5.99965832 German_Hither_Pomerania
6.33344298 German_North_Bohemia
7.03881382 German_West_Prussia
8.63228243 Austrian
8.74885707 German_County_Glatz
8.88615215 German
9.92126504 Austrian_Carinthia
10.57280947 German_Central_Hesse
11.69280976 Upper_Silesia
12.28488502 German_Schleswig-Holstein
12.29930486 German_Lower_Franconia
12.34646508 German_Hamburg
12.54442904 German_East_Prussia_Masuria
12.73005106 German_Lower_Saxony_north
13.09472795 German_Lower_Saxony_south
13.23633257 German_Westphalia
13.31837828 Austrian_Upper_Austria
13.61580699 German_Bavaria_proper
14.49758256 German_Upper_Swabia
14.66593672 German_North_Rhine

Distance to: rothaer_child4
4.64303780 German_West_Prussia
4.67099561 German_Saxony
5.70549735 German_Farther_Pomerania
7.91513740 German_North_Bohemia
8.43240772 German_Ore_Mountains_Saxony
9.02860454 Upper_Silesia
9.15878813 Austrian_Carinthia
9.16008734 German_Saxony-Anhalt_south
9.18546678 German_County_Glatz
9.56253105 German_East_Prussia_Masuria
9.84235744 Austrian
10.72239712 German_West_Mecklenburg
11.26579780 German_Hither_Pomerania
12.55881364 German
12.93568321 German_Brandenburg_outlier(Beeskow)
13.62324484 German_Central_Hesse
14.99445898 German_Lower_Franconia
15.53151635 German_Bavarian_Swabia
15.89257374 Austrian_Upper_Austria
16.16826831 German_Bavaria_proper
16.18516296 German_Schleswig-Holstein
16.78143617 Austrian_Lower_Austria
16.85802183 German_East_Prussia_Memelland
17.43660231 German_Hamburg
17.45181366 German_Upper_Swabia

Distance to: rothaer_child5
1.72667310 German_Saxony
4.02981389 German_North_Bohemia
4.53081670 German_Ore_Mountains_Saxony
5.54261671 German_Saxony-Anhalt_south
5.58616147 German_County_Glatz
6.00054997 German_West_Prussia
6.01259511 German_Farther_Pomerania
6.09934423 Austrian
7.33570719 Austrian_Carinthia
8.42286175 German_Hither_Pomerania
8.71751111 German_West_Mecklenburg
8.99894438 German
9.91852812 German_Central_Hesse
10.86709253 Upper_Silesia
11.17957960 German_Lower_Franconia
12.24194021 German_Bavaria_proper
12.27292141 German_East_Prussia_Masuria
12.34092379 German_Bavarian_Swabia
12.34878537 Austrian_Upper_Austria
13.51479930 German_Upper_Swabia
13.57643547 Austrian_Lower_Austria
14.12939489 German_North_Rhine
14.30709964 German_North_Baden
14.30770771 German_South_Hesse
14.44287714 German_Schleswig-Holstein

Then wife2 that is fully from Mecklenburg and three children with her:

Distance to: rothaer_wife2
3.14671257 German_West_Mecklenburg
5.53250395 German_Hither_Pomerania
6.95854151 German_Hamburg
7.46111922 German_Lower_Saxony_north
8.62310269 German_Farther_Pomerania
8.68092737 German_Schleswig-Holstein
9.13161541 German_Saxony-Anhalt_south
10.24599434 German_Westphalia
10.40977425 German_Lower_Saxony_south
10.94814139 German
11.34369869 German_Ore_Mountains_Saxony
12.04457554 German_Frisian
12.21476975 German_Saxony
12.36447330 German_North_Bohemia
12.99753053 German_Central_Hesse
13.49674035 German_West_Prussia
14.46644393 Austrian
15.10072184 German_County_Glatz
15.36294243 German_Lower_Franconia
15.74110860 Austrian_Upper_Austria
16.19790110 German_North_Rhine
16.55631602 German_North_Hesse
16.63038785 Austrian_Carinthia
16.96791973 German_Bavaria_proper
17.01258946 German_Upper_Swabia

Distance to: rothaer_child6
4.22454731 German_Hither_Pomerania
4.30192980 German_Saxony-Anhalt_south
4.49944441 German_West_Mecklenburg
5.33168829 German_Farther_Pomerania
5.50095446 German_Ore_Mountains_Saxony
5.93100329 German_Saxony
6.30142841 German_North_Bohemia
7.15111180 German
8.21196688 Austrian
8.95963169 German_County_Glatz
8.99971111 German_Central_Hesse
9.00887340 German_West_Prussia
10.49606117 German_Schleswig-Holstein
10.54063091 German_Hamburg
10.78325554 Austrian_Carinthia
10.80719668 German_Lower_Saxony_north
10.92746997 German_Lower_Saxony_south
10.98214915 German_Lower_Franconia
11.20326738 German_Westphalia
11.75162542 Austrian_Upper_Austria
12.40273760 German_Bavaria_proper
12.91952011 German_North_Rhine
13.07255140 German_Upper_Swabia
13.58196598 German_North_Hesse
13.73664078 Upper_Silesia

Distance to: rothaer_child7
4.48001116 German_West_Mecklenburg
5.03791624 German_Farther_Pomerania
6.36616839 German_Hither_Pomerania
7.40716545 German_Saxony-Anhalt_south
9.02577974 German_Saxony
9.29793525 German_Ore_Mountains_Saxony
9.88812925 German_West_Prussia
10.04434667 German_North_Bohemia
10.04861184 German_Hamburg
10.71086831 German
11.02805513 German_Lower_Saxony_north
11.20704243 German_Schleswig-Holstein
12.34735194 Austrian
12.64092164 German_Lower_Saxony_south
12.89487107 German_Westphalia
12.98726684 German_County_Glatz
13.05628201 German_Central_Hesse
13.20976533 Austrian_Carinthia
13.72945738 Upper_Silesia
13.79871371 German_East_Prussia_Masuria
14.89723800 German_Lower_Franconia
15.42720649 German_Frisian
15.76489772 Austrian_Upper_Austria
16.34288836 German_Bavaria_proper
16.58869193 German_North_Rhine

Distance to: rothaer_child8
4.72751520 German_Saxony-Anhalt_south
5.60928694 German_Farther_Pomerania
5.90359213 German_West_Mecklenburg
6.07735962 German_Ore_Mountains_Saxony
6.32896516 German_Hither_Pomerania
6.38786349 German_Saxony
6.98406758 German_North_Bohemia
8.68292577 German
8.83026613 German_West_Prussia
9.11093848 Austrian
9.93182763 German_County_Glatz
9.97932863 Austrian_Carinthia
11.00087269 German_Central_Hesse
11.28257506 German_Hamburg
11.97380892 German_Schleswig-Holstein
12.24686082 German_Lower_Franconia
12.39578557 German_Lower_Saxony_north
12.64854932 German_Lower_Saxony_south
12.94699965 German_Westphalia
12.97134149 Upper_Silesia
13.43104985 German_Bavaria_proper
13.48906594 Austrian_Upper_Austria
13.80759211 German_East_Prussia_Masuria
14.18812179 German_Upper_Swabia
14.26900137 German_North_Hesse