Gedmatch calculators on Vahaduo

[Leto]

This average is made from over 40 samples

Italy_IA,0.1252054,0.1572337,0.0369118,-0.015055,0.0492024,-0.009183,-0.0007623,-0.003287,0.0229865,0.0439455,0.000412,0.0113643,-0.0206457,-0.0067402,-0.002486,-0.002794,0.0032722,0.0008559,0.002376,-0.0034041,0.0010926,0.0046596,-0.0024199,-0.0046376,0.0006396

Which Italian regions or provinces have the most Italic ancestry?

[Leto]

That Italic average by Brazorf is only 23.8% Yamnaya on the Davidski gold standard calculator. That's pretty low if you ask me. Some modern Southern Europeans would score more. Swarthy Italics

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Which Italian regions or provinces have the most Italic ancestry?

Honestly, it's hard to quantify because models are almost always overfitted and do not make sense historically. Of all the Italians, the most akin are those in the north, particularly those with more EEF like the Lombards, although North Italians looks more like the Croatian Iron Age samples since they score a bit more Steppe and CHG/Iran_N than the Italics. The most related are instead the Iberians, although they are not descended from the Italics.

[Jana]

That Italic average by Brazorf is only 23.8% Yamnaya on the Davidski gold standard calculator. That's pretty low if you ask me. Some modern Southern Europeans would score more. Swarthy Italics

It has high WHG, around duble than modern northern Italians. But lower steppe and modern north Italians have extra "east med". Yamnaya were swarthy pigmented btw.

Target: Italy_IA
Distance: 2.8135% / 0.02813454

65.0 TUR_Barcin_N
23.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
11.2 WHG

Target: Italian_Lombardy
Distance: 3.0906% / 0.03090624

50.4 TUR_Barcin_N
32.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
11.2 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
6.0 WHG

Target: Italian_Piedmont
Distance: 2.0752% / 0.02075196

40.2 TUR_Barcin_N
33.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
21.4 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
4.8 WHG

Italics were more Anatolian farmer (*"proto southern Europeans"), and Anatolian farmers had loads of WHG in them as well. As you can see, Italics lacked Tepecik Ciftlik neolithic like ancestry, which is between anatolian farmers and levantine farmers, brought by imperial Romans from near east/anatolia during imperial times.

[Jana]

Croatian IA Illyrians also totally lacked east med Tepecik Ciftlik like ancestry.

Target: Croatia_IA_average
Distance: 2.2851% / 0.02285136

57.4 TUR_Barcin_N
34.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
7.8 WHG

here are Austrian Celts, very similar to Illyrians with bit higher WHG

Target: Austria_IA_average
Distance: 3.3566% / 0.03356621

54.4 TUR_Barcin_N
33.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
12.0 WHG

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Anatolian farmers had loads of WHG in them as well.

Anatolian Farmers had 0%, the ones with WHG were Pinarbasi_HG (6%) and Boncuklu_N (5%). As a component EEF has little connection to the WHGs.

Distance to:	ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso:RMPR15
0.48572899	Ajeje_Brazorf_scaled
0.48600365	TUR_Pinarbasi_HG
0.48871596	TUR_Boncuklu_N
0.52049839	TUR_Barcin_N

Italics lacked Tepecik Ciftlik neolithic like ancestry, which is between anatolian farmers and levantine farmers, brought by imperial Romans from near east/anatolia during imperial times.

If I had to guess, I'd say the East Med stuff came in the first two centuries before Christ and not just in the Imperial Age. This period coincides with the highest wrecks in the Mediterranean.



Also, Tepecik_Ciftlik_N is redundant, since as you also specified it is an almost perfect mix of different components.

Target: TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
Distance: 1.8855% / 0.01885526
64.6	TUR_Barcin_N
18.2	Levant_PPNB
17.2	Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps

[Jana]

Anatolian Farmers had 0%, the ones with WHG were Pinarbasi_HG (6%) and Boncuklu_N (5%). As a component EEF has little connection to the WHGs.

Are your sure? I've read very different take on that but never fully understood it.

[Jana]

Distance to: CreodaMum(Staffordshire)
2.62998099 German_Westphalia
2.66037591 German_Lower_Saxony_south
2.83118350 English_Midlands
2.91192376 English
2.94343337 English_North
3.03432035 English_Southeast
3.12904139 Welsh
3.22023291 Dutch
3.22962846 Scottish_East
3.24232941 Scottish
3.27583577 Scottish_Northeast
3.47466545 English_Southwest
3.49625514 Scottish_North-Highlands
3.60002778 Dutch_Central
3.60066660 Scottish_Gàidhealtachd
3.62339620 Scottish_Southwest
3.77544699 Irish_Leinster
3.80197317 German_Northwest
3.86297813 Orcadian
4.33601199 Dutch_North
4.48811765 German_North
4.49560897 Irish
4.59661832 Irish_Connacht
4.80980249 Icelandic
4.97711764 Irish_Munster[/CODE]

Wow, your mother is Germanic shifted as f**K. Btw, in case you are wondering sample size for both Westphalia and lower Saxony south is decent, especially for Westphalia.
incredibly tight fit towards Germans!

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Are your sure? I've read very different take on that but never fully understood it.

Yes, I'm sure. Do you mean deep-ancestry or something like that? Global25 is not the best tool but I get this:

Target: TUR_Barcin_N
Distance: 19.0669% / 0.19066918
76.2 MIDDLE_EAST
12.0 WHG
11.8 CHG

Target: TUR_Barcin_N
Distance: 27.2112% / 0.27211197
56.0 CHG
24.2 TAFORALT
19.8 WHG

[rothaer]

Before



Now

Spoiler!

I watched and all points do make sense imo. The somewhat "Balkan" shift of County Glatz is unexpected to me, but it was also already visible in some results.

The fact that all averages do have a meaningful relation to each other on the PCA (showing a bio-geographic cline) confirms that also averages that are based on low sample sizes seem valid, if they are based on deeply rooted samples (like here). Of course nevertheless more samples are much appreciated.