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They knew turkic that's 100%, because greek sources mentioned it. Although at this time in the steppe the turkic language was such lingua franca like english today, so the turkic language was not necessary their native language. According to Anonymus they also used hungarian words just like the hungarus, when they named regions and cities. Most likely they were turkic and uralic speakers at same time. Anonymus said the hungarus and the conquerors had same origin who had been separated from each other. Many hungarus were hostile towards the magyars, but basically it was the only local ethnicity which partly supported the conquerors.
The origin of hungarus is unknown, according to Anonymus they were citizens of Hunnic Empire and they lived here since 5. century. Is it true or not we don't know, but the hungarus vs conqueror different identity is still remained until the 18-19. century. In the medieval age István Werbőczy clearly said that only the magyar noble class has right to belong the hungarian nation because they are descedants of conquerors, hungarus aren't. This point of view is changed in the 19. century when the hungarian nationalism is rather based on the peoples and not the elite.
The answer is very simple: many thing happened in the 1100 years inculding migration, wars, tatar destruction, ottoman destruction and the non hungarians who melted into hungarians were not uralic. But there are some connection with other uralics: the language, or this mtdna haplogroup:
https://cache.eupedia.com/images/con...tDNA-W-map.png
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In fact the r1a-z93 originated from Europe:
It has iranic origin not turkic origin, turks just assimilated tons of iranic people in Central Asia, but it doesn't mean its originally turkic:
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplo...l#Indo-IranianProto-Indo-Iranian speakers, the people who later called themselves 'Aryans' in the Rig Veda and the Avesta, originated in the Sintashta-Petrovka culture (2100-1750 BCE), in the Tobol and Ishim valleys, east of the Ural Mountains. It was founded by pastoralist nomads from the Abashevo culture (2500-1900 BCE), ranging from the upper Don-Volga to the Ural Mountains, and the Poltavka culture (2700-2100 BCE), extending from the lower Don-Volga to the Caspian depression.
The Sintashta-Petrovka culture, associated with R1a-Z93 and its subclades, was the first Bronze Age advance of the Indo-Europeans west of the Urals, opening the way to the vast plains and deserts of Central Asia to the metal-rich Altai mountains. The Aryans quickly expanded over all Central Asia, from the shores of the Caspian to southern Siberia and the Tian Shan, through trading, seasonal herd migrations, and looting raids.
Horse-drawn war chariots seem to have been invented by Sintashta people around 2100 BCE, and quickly spread to the mining region of Bactria-Margiana (modern border of Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan and Afghanistan). Copper had been extracted intensively in the Urals, and the Proto-Indo-Iranians from Sintashta-Petrovka were exporting it in huge quantities to the Middle East. They appear to have been attracted by the natural resources of the Zeravshan valley for a Petrovka copper-mining colony was established in Tugai around 1900 BCE, and tin was extracted soon afterwards at Karnab and Mushiston. Tin was an especially valued resource in the late Bronze Age, when weapons were made of copper-tin alloy, stronger than the more primitive arsenical bronze. In the 1700's BCE, the Indo-Iranians expanded to the lower Amu Darya valley and settled in irrigation farming communities (Tazabagyab culture). By 1600 BCE, the old fortified towns of Margiana-Bactria were abandoned, submerged by the northern steppe migrants. The group of Central Asian cultures under Indo-Iranian influence is known as the Andronovo horizon, and lasted until 800 BCE.
The Indo-Iranian migrations progressed further south across the Hindu Kush. By 1700 BCE, horse-riding pastoralists had penetrated into Balochistan (south-west Pakistan). The Indus valley succumbed circa 1500 BCE, and the northern and central parts of the Indian subcontinent were taken over by 500 BCE. Westward migrations led Old Indic Sanskrit speakers riding war chariots to Assyria, where they became the Mitanni rulers from circa 1500 BCE. The Medes, Parthians and Persians, all Iranian speakers from the Andronovo culture, moved into the Iranian plateau from 800 BCE. Those that stayed in Central Asia are remembered by history as the Scythians, while the Yamna descendants who remained in the Pontic-Caspian steppe became known as the Sarmatians to the ancient Greeks and Romans.
The Indo-Iranian migrations have resulted in high R1a frequencies in southern Central Asia, Iran and the Indian subcontinent. The highest frequency of R1a (about 65%) is reached in a cluster around Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and northern Afghanistan. In India and Pakistan, R1a ranges from 15 to 50% of the population, depending on the region, ethnic group and caste. R1a is generally stronger is the North-West of the subcontinent, and weakest in the Dravidian-speaking South (Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Karnataka, Andhra Pradesh) and from Bengal eastward. Over 70% of the Brahmins (highest caste in Hindusim) belong to R1a1, due to a founder effect.
Maternal lineages in South Asia are, however, overwhelmingly pre-Indo-European. For instance, India has over 75% of "native" mtDNA M and R lineages and 10% of East Asian lineages. In the residual 15% of haplogroups, approximately half are of Middle Eastern origin. Only about 7 or 8% could be of "Russian" (Pontic-Caspian steppe) origin, mostly in the form of haplogroup U2 and W (although the origin of U2 is still debated). European mtDNA lineages are much more common in Central Asia though, and even in Afghanistan and northern Pakistan. This suggests that the Indo-European invasion of India was conducted mostly by men through war. The first major settlement of Indo-Aryan women was in northern Pakistan, western India (Punjab to Gujarat) and northern India (Uttar Pradesh), where haplogroups U2 and W are the most common today.
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I have read and understand this argument before.
I don't believe in a "singular" haplogroup for any peoples' meta ethnicity. It is also practically impossible to determine who was the "first" haplos of any meta ethnicity who first founded their sub-ethnicity name outside of perhaps highly-isolated island nations. Perhaps with time, this will change, but that would mean millions and millions of graves that need finding and sequencing. Only thing that matters is what DNA and material are found in 100% confirmed graves from people at the time being studied. If we look at Proto-Magyars, Proto-Turks, Proto-Uralics, whatever and so on, how far do we go back before we stop? Africa? Are proto-proto-proto-proto Magyars even able to be called such when the tribal names that went into making the Onogurs did not even exist yet?
Regardless, the point of my talk about R1a-Z93 is that it's hilarious Dunai would claim that he thinks N haplo is dominant (it isn't; not a majority and not even by largest %), making it more likely to have a Mansi-related core (we don't, just Mansi contribution) while also ignoring the fact that this N elite somehow had a R1a ruler. It's an argument of willful ignorance.
Plus, Hungarian tribal names were Turkic. Szeklers are debated as non-Hungarian Turkics absorbed during the invasion of Europe mostly because of the tribal name alone. The top theory in that respect is that Székely is from the Bulgar-Kipchack Turk Esegel. I don't think this is so because again, the Székely name only doesn't make sense if someone's argument is that Hungarians were not predominantly Turkic-oriented. After all, why would an Ugric people use Turkic tribal and personal names? The answer is because Székely people are not a "different people" but a branch of Hungarians who kept the Turkicness because of historical chance; remember that there have been other Székely groups outside of Transylvania within Hungary. This is why we have more Turkic genetics, too. Hence, we are not a group of "different people" but a part of the original conquest.
Again, it is silly, because things will not make sense only if historians and geneticists refuse to look at the Turkic influence on Hungary and Hungarians as a whole.
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Target: Conq_Asia_Core1
Distance: 4.5981% / 0.04598104
54.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
28.0 Nganassan
7.6 Han
6.6 TUR_Barcin_N
1.4 MAR_Taforalt
1.2 BRA_LapaDoSanto_9600BP
1.2 WHG
Modern:
Target: Conq_Asia_Core1
Distance: 1.3875% / 0.01387467 | ADC: 0.25x RC
32.4 Udmurt
28.6 Tatar_Siberian_Zabolotniye
17.2 Sarikoli_China
11.2 Ket
10.6 Mansi
Target: Conq_Asia_Core1
Distance: 2.3877% / 0.02387651 | ADC: 0.5x RC
46.0 Tatar_Siberian_Zabolotniye
44.8 Udmurt
9.2 Bashkir
Curiously I´ve read that best modern proxy for those people were Bashkirs, and:
Distance to: Conq_Asia_Core1
0.05132589 Bashkir
0.07064220 Tatar_Siberian
0.07787376 Tatar_Siberian_Zabolotniye
0.08129141 Udmurt
0.09388150 Besermyan
0.10001303 Saami
0.10495878 Mansi
0.10655921 Mari
0.10786311 Yukagir_Forest
0.11074486 Chuvash
Anyway, many different references could have been used for that 35% Sarmatian and specially for the restant 15%, and the proxy would have changed considerably.
Editersonally I see it too much "Siberian", I´ve would expect also those conquerors more Central Asian-like.
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"Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas"
"Dimidium facti, qui coepit, habet: sapere aude, incipe."
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They are. Note that the top three groups distance-wise are a Turkic people. Conquerors (aside from moderate Hunnic admixture) were not from present-day Mongolia. Western Turkic groups are still Turkic groups. Also nothing odd about "Siberian" since wave after wave after wave of steppe people traveled through the region and into the plains of Western Eurasia.
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You call it assimilation but i call it rather "founding" of the western Turkic people, pretty similar to founding of Hungarian nation. In fact, all Turkic peoples as early as Xiognu had ancestry from Central Asian-Siberian Aryan cultures and for me all those aryan cultures like Sintashta, Andronovo, Afanasievo etc.. are founding cores of Turkic peoples.The Sintashta-Petrovka culture, associated with R1a-Z93 and its subclades, was the first Bronze Age advance of the Indo-Europeans west of the Urals, opening the way to the vast plains and deserts of Central Asia to the metal-rich Altai mountains. The Aryans quickly expanded over all Central Asia, from the shores of the Caspian to southern Siberia and the Tian Shan, through trading, seasonal herd migrations, and looting raids.
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The half Ugric, 1/3 Sarmartian, 15% Hun is based on the autosomal approximation of Hungarian Conquerors, not the distribution percentage of their Y-DNA. The current paper didn't publish yet the full list of which specific Y-DNA belonged to each Hungarian Conqueror individual, this will appear in a later peer-reviewed version of the study.
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