G25 Balkan Calculator

[Rizza]

Illyrians were similar to Italics, but notably more NW than Imperial Romans which were diverse but mainly Greek-like.
they weren't similar. Sisak and novo selo samples are nothing like IA Illyrians from same country.

There are Illyrian like post-IA samples from Croatia but these 2 were not those.

Illyrians from same area were like this and not even remotely close to Greeks:

Distance to: Illyrians:HRV_IA:I5729
0.01916320 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.01949346 Italian_Veneto
0.02299119 Spanish_Mallorca
0.02328272 French_Provence
0.02364239 Italian_Northeast


Distance to: Illyrians:HRV_IA:I5728
0.02660396 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.02788815 Spanish_Menorca
0.02908803 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.02947233 Spanish_Eivissa
0.02985401 Italian_Lombardy


Distance to: Illyrians:HRV_IA:I5726
0.03133777 Spanish_Baleares
0.03164819 Spanish_Mallorca
0.03273003 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.03308302 Spanish_Girona
0.03336950 Spanish_Castello


Distance to: Illyrians:HRV_IA:I5725
0.02135420 Spanish_Mallorca
0.02293093 Spanish_Penedes
0.02304082 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.02415175 Spanish_Barcelones
0.02426090 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona


Distance to: Illyrians:HRV_IA:I5724
0.02743270 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.02803796 Italian_Veneto
0.03205745 Italian_Bergamo
0.03359404 Italian_Northeast
0.03369127 Spanish_Mallorca


Distance to: Illyrians:HRV_IA:I5723
0.02206328 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.02225406 Italian_Bergamo
0.02403735 Italian_Veneto
0.02621592 Spanish_Mallorca
0.02683446 Spanish_Baleares


Distance to: Illyrians:HRV_IA:I3313
0.02400696 Italian_Lombardy
0.02684022 Italian_Bergamo
0.03098048 Italian_Piedmont
0.03132283 Italian_Veneto
0.03232243 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige


Distance to: Illyrians:HRV_EIA:I26742
0.01971362 Italian_Bergamo
0.02074188 Italian_Veneto
0.02251567 Italian_Piedmont
0.02295622 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.02423634 French_Corsica


Distance to: Illyrians:HRV_EIA:I24882
0.02496761 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.02497335 Italian_Veneto
0.02635536 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.02756537 French_Provence
0.02769401 Italian_Northeast


Distance to: Illyrians:HRV_EIA:I24879
0.02895674 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.02958585 Swiss_French
0.03275488 French_Provence
0.03448691 Italian_Northeast
0.03632307 Italian_Veneto


Distance to: Illyrians:HRV_EIA:I24639
0.02329727 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.02473615 Italian_Veneto
0.02592845 Italian_Northeast
0.02700281 Italian_Bergamo
0.02747467 Italian_Lombardy


Distance to: Illyrians:HRV_EIA:I24638
0.02507400 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.02620934 Spanish_Girona
0.02626161 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.02628569 Spanish_Penedes
0.02633317 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre


Distance to: Illyrians:HRV_EIA:I23996
0.02916613 Italian_Bergamo
0.03000246 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03125888 Italian_Lombardy
0.03313542 Italian_Veneto
0.03517805 Spanish_Menorca


Distance to: Illyrians:HRV_EIA:I23995
0.02057799 Italian_Veneto
0.02180827 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.02479018 Italian_Bergamo
0.02520178 Italian_Northeast
0.02716413 Spanish_Mallorca


Distance to: Illyrians:HRV_EIA:I23911
0.02147853 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.02239344 Spanish_Menorca
0.02311794 Spanish_Baleares
0.02324265 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.02379884 Italian_Bergamo

Distance to: Illyrians:I23904
0.02502255 Italian_Veneto
0.02670273 Swiss_Italian
0.02680831 Italian_Bergamo
0.02734474 Italian_Piedmont
0.02818026 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige

Distance to: Illyrians:HRV_LIA_La_Tene:I26735
0.02105956 Italian_Veneto
0.02174158 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.02326262 Italian_Northeast
0.02606621 Swiss_French
0.02612681 Italian_Aosta_Valley

Indeed. And pre-Slavic ancestry of modern Albanians is pretty much North-Italian like and these Illyrians carry the same Y-DNA as Albanians. Illyrian Samples from Albania and Macedonia on average are more south and as I showed in the other PCA Map some of them even cluster more south than me. Some Illyrians could of also mixed. You add all Iron Age Balkan samples together from Macedonia, Bulgaria, Montenegro, Croatia, Albania. Albanians alwyas score more Illyrian. So what is your point exactly ? Why are you hung up on some Sisak sample who is most likely a native Balkan sample and clusters just east to Iron Age Illyrians from Albania and south of me ? No Roman I have seen cluster like that nor Near Eastern people but it's not even relevant to the thread.

Let's run some of these Iron Age Illyrian averages from Croatia btw, you basically just cherry picked the samples because many of these Illyrians also cluster all over the place including French and it is likely such profiles changed over the course as we can see later becoming more south as there were already samples that were south, we also have Bronze Age samples that are more south

Some more Illyrians from Croatia:

Distance to: HRV_EIA:I23904
0.02502255 Italian_Veneto
0.02670273 Swiss_Italian
0.02680831 Italian_Bergamo
0.02734474 Italian_Piedmont
0.02818026 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.02896575 Albanian_Northwestern_Albania
0.02942175 Albanian_Montenegro
0.02986283 Rizza-Albanian
0.02986820 Albanian_Mirditë
0.03010642 Albanian_Tropojë-Gjakovë
0.03034878 Italian_Northeast
0.03054387 Italian_Lombardy
0.03135949 Albanian_Kosovo
0.03267342 Italian_Tuscany
0.03300529 Albanian_Pukë
0.03382955 Italian_Liguria
0.03409224 Albanian_Korçë
0.03437561 French_Provence
0.03437888 Albanian_Labëria
0.03445712 Spanish_Baleares
0.03448954 French_Corsica
0.03460066 Albanian_Central_Albania
0.03477322 Greek_Thessaly
0.03537972 Albanian_Himarë
0.03545728 Albanian_Dibra

Distance to: HRV_IA:I3313
0.02400696 Italian_Lombardy
0.02684022 Italian_Bergamo
0.03098048 Italian_Piedmont
0.03132283 Italian_Veneto
0.03232243 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03503135 Italian_Liguria
0.03518854 Rizza-Albanian
0.03523518 Swiss_Italian
0.03570296 French_Corsica
0.03623112 Italian_Tuscany
0.03632296 Albanian_Northwestern_Albania
0.03688984 Albanian_Tropojë-Gjakovë
0.03753591 Albanian_Montenegro
0.03842617 Greek_Thessaly
0.03893473 Italian_Northeast
0.03915370 Albanian_Kosovo
0.03946408 Albanian_Mirditë
0.04091600 Albanian_Himarë
0.04115928 Albanian_Central_Albania
0.04127979 Albanian_Pukë
0.04141894 Albanian_Labëria
0.04160303 Albanian_Korçë
0.04186317 Italian_Marche
0.04203788 Spanish_Mallorca
0.04216678 Spanish_Baleares









Where is Croatia here ?




Congratulations. You ruined another thread with your insecurities , it is mind blowing how you are not banned yet.

[Rizza]

not the same cline and closest pops clearly show it. Illyrians were SW Euro like. you are SE Euro like.

Nope, they were not all like that, many samples are southern and cluster just west of Albanians pretty much, some even south of me. Just a slight East shift that has occurred which happened to many Balkan people including Greeks, either minor imperial admixture or Slavic possibly.. Other than that Albanians are pretty much 80%-90% identical to some of these samples. Carry 30%-40% of modern Albanian Y-DNA so far which is completelty non existant among your people.


Thracians cluster nowhere near Albanians and are even more south than the southern most Albanians. And Albanian is native to the Balkans most definitely.


Most ethnicities have changed a bit since the Iron Age so it is no shock.

[wvwvw]

Acient Greeks were very southern people genetically and not similar to all to Italics nor Illyrians.

Greeks derive their ancestry from the indigenous J2 lineage as well from the first farmers that arrived to Greece 10,000 ago, and also by the Iberian lineage R1b which arrived to the Balkans 5000 years ago. The combination of all those lineages made up the Ancient Greeks.

The population of Europe consists of 10 separate DNA lineages. All of these linage lived separately and never mixed until historical times.

Greece and the Balkans were the only places that were of three mixed lineages J2; EV-13; and R1b.

We know that the R1b lineage did not speak Indo-European but a Basque-like language. The Iberian branch of Hellenes, Illyrians and Italo-Celts that arrived to the Balkans 5000 years ago belonged to the R1b lineage and Indo-Europanised its language after it came in contact with the alredy indigenous J2 and Ev13 lineages.

The Indo-European language developed from Ursula and its husband J2 dna lineage. Bronze age Greeks were of all those three lineages and the same goes for Illyrians.

Before the arrival of the ”Indo-Europeans” who ironically spoke a non-Indo-European language, there was spoken a common language throughout Greece, Balkans and Anatolia, very similar to proto-Greek, the language of Ursula.

[Freeroostah]

Dont know whats going on but here are my results

Distance to: VangosH_scaled
0.03531626 Albania_IA_Rom:ALB_Mdv
0.03602333 HRV/MNE_LBA/IA_Rom:Croatia_Sisak_Pogorelec:R2041___AD_303___Co verage_50.40%
0.04683678 Albania_IA_Rom:ALB_Cinamak_Anc
0.04727646 HRV/MNE_IA_Rom:MNE_LBA
0.05321666 HRV/MNE_LBA/IA_Rom:HRV_EIA
0.09511405 Migration_Period:TUR_Marmara_Ilipinar_Byz3


Target: VangosH_scaled
Distance: 2.8931% / 0.02893101 | ADC: 0.25x RC
65.2 Albania_IA_Rom
19.4 HRV/MNE_LBA/IA_Rom
15.4 Migration_Period

[Rizza]

East shift has occured in All Balkan Populations even medieval and some post medieval samples in Albania cluster like Italics, some cluster more east but of course you love to take things out of context and are clearly clueless about the whole picture or where these samples actually land, in Albanians on average east shift has occurred much less compred to Romanians, Aromanians, etc. this is like saying modern Greeks are not Ancient Greeks because of some change. Most populations cannot claim to be unchanged since the Iron Age. Here I added some Illyrians from Albania and Macedonia to the PCA Map, some cluster right next to Albanian averages and even more south red and green are samples from Albania and Macedonia.












Illyrians were Bronze Age people too actually. Formed already in the Bronze Age. One Cetina sample in Croatia clusters like an Albanian. Also it's not like many Iberians or Italians are that far away from Albanians actually. These samples have nothing to do with Italians or Iberians some of them clustering there is pure coincidence, mostly result of WHG + Neolithic + Steppe in different % , Albanians carry these type of genes, I get modelled as North Italian by many calculators + Greek etc. The only troll is you basically. We don't have to use Roman samples here, we come out mostly Illyrian regardless of how you put it . But if you are gonna use samples from Bulgaria add also samples from Macedonia which was inhabited by Illyrians and Ancient Greeks and which many have similar profiles to Iron Age Albania.



Anyway, you are getting really boring, it's time for me to go. You're just a person who is butthurt Albanians came from this population. Nothing else really and you pretty much ruined a thread.

[Rizza]

Here I also added Medieval and Post medieval samples from Albania , some of these samples pretty much touch Iron Age Illyrian cluster and North Macedonia Iron Age cluster







This ''nixie'' person keeps spamming me with neg reps btw, and claims I have been ''taught'' something. Only people who have been taught is pretty much you.


I don't know why these trolls are allowed to roam this forum freely like this ?




But I love an argument and to put people right in their place but I'm not gonna waste my time

[Jana]

Were Romans SE?

Imperial Romans yes, very woggy like island or Anatolian Greeks or ocassionaly Levantines even.
they are partial reason of eastern shift in Italians and likely Balkanites as well (+ later Slavic)

[Hulu]

Imperial Romans yes, very woggy like island or Anatolian Greeks or ocassionaly Levantines even.
they are partial reason of eastern shift in Italians and likely Balkanites as well (+ later Slavic)

Southern plotting doesnt mean voggy looking. They were light to the point NW Europeans tried to claim them. That's why the source of southerness needs to be identified.

[Rizza]

He made the names so that samples automatically get added together, I changed them a bit

Target: Rizza
Distance: 0.8051% / 0.00805085
36.8 Albania_IA_Rom
30.8 HRV/MNE_LBA/IA_Rom_Croatia_Sisak_Pogorelec
18.4 HRV/MNE_LBA/IA_Rom_HRV_EIA
14.0 Migration_Period



On that PCA MAP I made some Illyrians are not shown because they are very south yet this Feiichy person claims they are all identical, cherrypicks samples that get Spanish etc

[Rizza]

Its pretty much agreed by every serious linguist that Albanian is Illyrian and related to Messapic, this was also argued in a new Dutch study, and that proto Albanian and proto Messapic came to the Balkans before Thracian

It's actually the other way around. Thracians post-date Proto-Albanians in the Balkans and that's actually what all Leiden presentations argued for.

Proto-Thracian movements in the Balkans post-date Proto-Albanian movements by 200-300 years.

E-V13 is of course irrelevant to the discussion about Proto-Thracians as it didn't come from the steppe.

Post I got from Anthrogenica