Proto-Hungarian man best fit

[Feiichy]

So elite were turko-tatars with a little southern european and a little slav.
Commoners were similar, but also had some Western euro admixture.

LOOOL what a mess

Hungaria, the Brazil of Europe

[Scandal]

yeah, but notice distance, they have Turanid input genetically speaking and low Slav with some celto german



ufff I'm not sure, we'd need to read paper that dealt with these samples. I read it but forgot. They are surely commoners from that era. Just their deeper origin not clear 100%

Yes the distance is big. Mixed mode probably makes more sense here than single population sharing.

[ioas12]

I think East Romance speakers (Vlachs) migrated from Bulgarian mountains to Wallachia during the high middle age and absorbed many Slavs in Wallachia. From mixing of Vlach migrants and Slavs who lived in Wallachia for centuries before Vlachs was born Romanian ethnos. Later in the late middle age Vlachs (which in that time had significant Slavic admixture) started to migrate from Wallachia to Transylvania and Moldova. I think also Vlachs before they moved to Wallachia were without Slavic admixture or it was minor in them. Wallachia in the early middle age should be predominantly populated by Slavs but under the rule of various Turkic tribes and lack of Vlachs.

Do you count 13 centery as late middle ages or high middle ages because that when vlachs where first mentioned in translyiana

[Varda]

Do you count 13 centery as late middle ages or high middle ages because that when vlachs where first mentioned in translyiana

I said roughly. It was not one migration, but many smaller in longer period. First Vlachs probably came from Bulgaria to Wallachia around 1000. Later probably were new waves of the Vlach migrations from regions south of Danube. Until 13th century Vlach had enought time to assimilatted Slavs in Wallachia and became numerous and to start with migrations towards Transylvania. In 14th century first Vlach groupd arrived up to Maramures. In the mudfle age Vlachs were l semi nomadic population and for them was not problem migrations to distant or relatively distant regions.

Albanians had similar way of life and they were also sheperds. First Albanian groups are recorded in western Kosovo in 14th century, but their presence was temporarily. With their sheeps they were present part of year but returned to modern Albania and like that every year. Albanians as perma inhabitants of Kosovo appeared in 16th century when Ottoman controled region.

[ioas12]

I said roughly. It was not one migration, but many smaller in longer period. First Vlachs probably came from Bulgaria to Wallachia around 1000. Later probably were new waves of the Vlach migrations from regions south of Danube. Until 13th century Vlach had enought time to assimilatted Slavs in Wallachia and became numerous and to start with migrations towards Transylvania. In 14th century first Vlach groupd arrived up to Maramures. Vlachs were like semi nomadic population and for them was not problem migration to distant or relatively distant regions.

Albanians had similar way of life and they were also sheperds. First Albanian groups are recorded in western Kosovo in 14th century, but their presence was temporarily. With their sheeps they were present part of year but returned to modern Albania and like that every year. Albanians as perma inhabitants of Kosovo appeared in 16th century when Ottoman controled region.

Wasn't there an old chronicle that said vlachs came in maramures the 1290. I know the vlachs where first mentioned in 1326. So it wouldn't be in probale for them to come in the 1290s

[Blondie]

I remember Peterski once posted a source about medieval (13. century) hungarian dna, and it was still asiatic a little bit.

[Demirkazık]

I remember Peterski once posted a source about medieval (13. century) hungarian dna, and it was still asiatic a little bit.

All of the Magyar samples are Asiatic on various degrees.

[Roy]

He would be atypical in Hungary

[oszkar07]

I remember Peterski once posted a source about medieval (13. century) hungarian dna, and it was still asiatic a little bit.

The autosomal DNA profile of Bela III falls within the genetic variation of present-day east European populations like Croatians and Hungarians. This is further supported through his mtDNA genome that belongs to hg H, the most common European maternal lineage. Furthermore, he was previously found to carry Y-chromosome hg R1a that can be traced back to Central Asia based on a more detailed phylogeographic reconstruction33. Based on the established genealogy (Figure S1), this Y-chromosome lineage provides a direct link between Bela III and his ancestor Árpád (845–907 AD), the Great Prince of the Hungarians who started the so-called Árpád Dynasty.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-98796-x

[oszkar07]

I remember Peterski once posted a source about medieval (13. century) hungarian dna, and it was still asiatic a little bit.

In fact, even the very early Arpads look a lot like Modern day Hungarians.

Ladislaus I of Hungary (St. Laszlo), GEDmatch# KJ9269628.

Saint Ladislas, was King of Hungary from 1077 and King of Croatia from 1091. He was the second son of King Béla I of Hungary and Richeza (or Adelaide) of Poland. After Béla's death in 1063, Ladislaus and his elder brother, Géza, acknowledged their cousin Solomon as the lawful king in exchange for receiving their father's former duchy, which included one-third of the kingdom. They cooperated with Solomon for the next decade. Ladislaus's most popular legend, which narrates his fight with a "Cuman" (a Turkic nomad marauder) who abducted a Hungarian girl, is connected to this period. The brothers' relationship with Solomon deteriorated in the early 1070s, and they rebelled against him. Géza was proclaimed king in 1074, but Solomon maintained control of the western regions of his kingdom. During Géza's reign, Ladislaus was his brother's most influential adviser.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ladislaus_I_of_Hungary


Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:
K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

Kit KJ9269628

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 32.85
2 North_Atlantic 26.85
3 West_Med 11.71
4 West_Asian 11.35
5 Siberian 5.78
6 East_Med 4.96
7 South_Asian 2.3
8 Amerindian 1.03
9 Oceanian 0.92
10 Sub-Saharan 0.92
11 East_Asian 0.6
12 Red_Sea 0.55
13 Northeast_African 0.19

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 7.8
2 Croatian 8.55
3 Hungarian 9.27
4 Ukrainian_Lviv 10.06
5 South_Polish 11.13
6 Ukrainian 11.61
7 East_German 12.16
8 Austrian 12.42
9 Serbian 12.64
10 Tatar 13.75
11 Polish 14.09
12 Southwest_Russian 14.33
13 Ukrainian_Belgorod 14.43
14 Romanian 15.51
15 Kargopol_Russian 15.58
16 Russian_Smolensk 15.91
17 Estonian_Polish 16.67
18 Southwest_Finnish 16.99
19 Belorussian 17.33
20 Erzya 17.64

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 52.8% Austrian + 47.2% Tatar @ 3.74
2 53.3% East_German + 46.7% Tatar @ 3.78
3 61.1% Hungarian + 38.9% Tatar @ 3.98
4 75.9% South_Polish + 24.1% Nogay @ 4.56
5 64.3% Croatian + 35.7% Tatar @ 4.61
6 77.8% South_Polish + 22.2% Afghan_Turkmen @ 4.64
7 65.8% Austrian + 34.2% Chuvash @ 4.88
8 87.2% Croatian + 12.8% Shors @ 4.98
9 78.5% Ukrainian_Lviv + 21.5% Nogay @ 5.01
10 68.2% Moldavian + 31.8% Tatar @ 5.02
11 73.8% Hungarian + 26.2% Chuvash @ 5.03
12 80.3% Ukrainian_Lviv + 19.7% Afghan_Turkmen @ 5.09
13 83.9% Croatian + 16.1% Afghan_Turkmen @ 5.2
14 80.5% South_Polish + 19.5% Aghan_Hazara @ 5.23
15 88.3% Croatian + 11.7% Hakas @ 5.23
16 78.3% Hungarian + 21.7% Mari @ 5.29
17 70.9% Polish + 29.1% Nogay @ 5.35
18 89.6% Croatian + 10.4% Altaian @ 5.37
19 80.1% South_Polish + 19.9% Afghan_Tadjik @ 5.39
20 87.5% Croatian + 12.5% Kazakh @ 5.39

K15

Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 Oracle results:
Kit KJ9269628

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Sea 23.8
2 Baltic 17.54
3 Eastern_Euro 15.31
4 Atlantic 12.45
5 West_Asian 9.82
6 West_Med 8.57
7 Siberian 4.85
8 South_Asian 2.26
9 East_Med 1.9
10 Sub-Saharan 0.91
11 Amerindian 0.89
12 Oceanian 0.77
13 Red_Sea 0.56
14 Southeast_Asian 0.36

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 9.05
2 Hungarian 9.21
3 Croatian 10.69
4 East_German 11.07
5 Ukrainian_Lviv 11.1
6 Ukrainian 11.67
7 South_Polish 11.97
8 Austrian 12.47
9 Finnish 12.48
10 Serbian 12.78
11 East_Finnish 13.33
12 Southwest_Finnish 13.39
13 Polish 14.31
14 Romanian 15.14
15 Ukrainian_Belgorod 15.28
16 Kargopol_Russian 15.33
17 Tatar 15.49
18 Southwest_Russian 15.49
19 Russian_Smolensk 15.77
20 North_Swedish 16.03

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 66.2% Hungarian + 33.8% Tatar @ 5.5
2 60.4% East_German + 39.6% Tatar @ 5.78
3 77.9% Finnish + 22.1% Balkar @ 6.09
4 79.3% Finnish + 20.7% Ossetian @ 6.18
5 76.6% Finnish + 23.4% Kumyk @ 6.23
6 82.3% Finnish + 17.7% Abhkasian @ 6.28
7 81.3% Finnish + 18.7% Georgian @ 6.28
8 77.6% Finnish + 22.4% Kabardin @ 6.34
9 79.8% Hungarian + 20.2% Chuvash @ 6.46
10 78.6% East_German + 21.4% Afghan_Turkmen @ 6.46
11 83.2% Hungarian + 16.8% Mari @ 6.47
12 79% Finnish + 21% Adygei @ 6.47
13 88% Hungarian + 12% Shors @ 6.47
14 83.5% Hungarian + 16.5% Afghan_Turkmen @ 6.53
15 52.4% Tatar + 47.6% West_German @ 6.55
16 79.6% Finnish + 20.4% North_Ossetian @ 6.58
17 77.9% Finnish + 22.1% Chechen @ 6.63
18 89% Hungarian + 11% Hakas @ 6.66
19 91% Hungarian + 9% Selkup @ 6.71
20 90.8% Hungarian + 9.2% Ket @ 6.75


Dodecad K12b Oracle results:
The GEDmatch version of Oracle may give slightly different results from Dienekes version. The GEDmatch version uses FST weighting in its calculations.

Kit KJ9269628

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_European 44.16
2 Atlantic_Med 23.19
3 Caucasus 13.83
4 Gedrosia 8.38
5 Siberian 5.35
6 South_Asian 1.71
7 Southwest_Asian 1.45
8 East_Asian 1.02
9 Sub_Saharan 0.73
10 Northwest_African 0.17

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarians (Behar) 8.82
2 German (Dodecad) 12.2
3 Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 16.99
4 Romanians (Behar) 17.23
5 Dutch (Dodecad) 18.06
6 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 18.89
7 Swedish (Dodecad) 19.31
8 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 19.49
9 Ukranians (Yunusbayev) 20
10 Polish (Dodecad) 20
11 Norwegian (Dodecad) 20.31
12 CEU30 (1000Genomes) 20.48
13 English (Dodecad) 20.7
14 Kent (1000Genomes) 20.7
15 Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) 21.14
16 British_Isles (Dodecad) 21.75
17 Mordovians (Yunusbayev) 21.83
18 Argyll (1000Genomes) 21.93
19 French (Dodecad) 21.96
20 French (HGDP) 22.45

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 65.9% Swedish (Dodecad) + 34.1% Nogais (Yunusbayev) @ 3.89
2 64.8% Norwegian (Dodecad) + 35.2% Nogais (Yunusbayev) @ 4.57
3 85.2% Hungarians (Behar) + 14.8% Uzbeks (Behar) @ 5.03
4 84.2% Hungarians (Behar) + 15.8% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) @ 5.04
5 89.7% Hungarians (Behar) + 10.3% Altai (Rasmussen) @ 5.06
6 90.4% Hungarians (Behar) + 9.6% Selkup (Rasmussen) @ 5.09
7 90.9% Hungarians (Behar) + 9.1% Ket (Rasmussen) @ 5.1
8 87.7% Hungarians (Behar) + 12.3% Hazara (HGDP) @ 5.18
9 92.8% Hungarians (Behar) + 7.2% Yakut (HGDP) @ 5.24
10 91.2% Hungarians (Behar) + 8.8% Tuva (Rasmussen) @ 5.3
11 88.4% Hungarians (Behar) + 11.6% Burusho (HGDP) @ 5.31
12 93.3% Hungarians (Behar) + 6.7% Evenk (Rasmussen) @ 5.33
13 93% Hungarians (Behar) + 7% Yukagir (Rasmussen) @ 5.35
14 92.4% Hungarians (Behar) + 7.6% Dolgan (Rasmussen) @ 5.35
15 69.7% Swedish (Dodecad) + 30.3% Kumyks (Yunusbayev) @ 5.43
16 94.3% Hungarians (Behar) + 5.7% Nganassan (Rasmussen) @ 5.58
17 56% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) + 44% N_Italian (Dodecad) @ 5.62
18 91.8% Hungarians (Behar) + 8.2% Buryat (Rasmussen) @ 5.62
19 77.1% German (Dodecad) + 22.9% Nogais (Yunusbayev) @ 5.63
20 88.5% Hungarians (Behar) + 11.5% Pathan (HGDP) @ 5.64


Dodecad V3 Oracle results:
The GEDmatch version of Oracle may give slightly different results from Dienekes version. The GEDmatch version uses FST weighting in its calculations.

Kit KJ9269628

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_European 37.46
2 East_European 21.41
3 Mediterranean 18.03
4 West_Asian 11.84
5 Northeast_Asian 4.86
6 South_Asian 2.53
7 Southeast_Asian 1.44
8 Southwest_Asian 1.43
9 Neo_African 0.61
10 Palaeo_African 0.36
11 Northwest_African 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Slovenian (Xing) 7.94
2 Hungarians (Behar) 10.11
3 German (Dodecad) 16.49
4 Balkans (Dodecad) 18.39
5 N._European (Xing) 19.47
6 CEU (HapMap) 20.01
7 Argyll (1000 Genomes) 20.24
8 Romanians_14 (Behar) 20.54
9 Orcadian (HGDP) 21.4
10 Orkney (1000 Genomes) 21.57
11 Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) 22.38
12 FIN (1000Genomes) 22.69
13 Polish (Dodecad) 23.11
14 Tuscan (Xing) 25.81
15 Finnish (Dodecad) 25.85
16 Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 25.89
17 French (Dodecad) 26.07
18 French (HGDP) 26.11
19 Tuscan (Henn) 26.29
20 TSI (HapMap) 26.58

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 86% Slovenian (Xing) + 14% Uzbeks (Behar) @ 4.31
2 64.9% FIN (1000Genomes) + 35.1% Turkish (Dodecad) @ 4.39
3 90% Slovenian (Xing) + 10% Selkup (Rasmussen) @ 4.41
4 68.9% FIN (1000Genomes) + 31.1% Cypriots (Behar) @ 4.62
5 91.2% Slovenian (Xing) + 8.8% Dolgan (Rasmussen) @ 4.65
6 90.2% Slovenian (Xing) + 9.8% Altai (Rasmussen) @ 4.66
7 92.5% Slovenian (Xing) + 7.5% Yakut (HGDP) @ 4.77
8 90.3% Slovenian (Xing) + 9.7% Yukagir (Rasmussen) @ 4.78
9 93% Slovenian (Xing) + 7% Evenk_15 (Rasmussen) @ 4.8
10 88.4% Slovenian (Xing) + 11.6% Uygur (HGDP) @ 4.82
11 88% Slovenian (Xing) + 12% Hazara (HGDP) @ 4.83
12 91.7% Slovenian (Xing) + 8.3% Tuva (Rasmussen) @ 4.86
13 89.8% Slovenian (Xing) + 10.2% Kyrgyzstani (Xing) @ 4.96
14 50% Tuscan (Xing) + 50% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 5.08
15 94.4% Slovenian (Xing) + 5.6% Nganassan_12 (Rasmussen) @ 5.08
16 92.4% Slovenian (Xing) + 7.6% Buryat (Rasmussen) @ 5.09
17 94.7% Slovenian (Xing) + 5.3% Chukchi_11 (Rasmussen) @ 5.1
18 94.9% Slovenian (Xing) + 5.1% Koryak_15 (Rasmussen) @ 5.16
19 57.6% Finnish (Dodecad) + 42.4% C_Italian (Dodecad) @ 5.17
20 54.7% Finnish (Dodecad) + 45.3% O_Italian (Dodecad) @ 5.26