Slavic Expansion

**Peterski** · 09-11-2025, 04:06 PM

There is also one Slavic-like ancient sample from Grodek, dated to 245 - 402 AD:

Distance to: GRK023
11.26423544 Europe_PL_Pomorskie-Kluki:Slovincians
11.74814028 Europe_PL_Warmia-Masuria
12.01737492 Europe_BY_Brest-Region
12.23638836 Europe_PL_Central-Poland
12.29588142 Europe_BY_Mogilev-Region
12.56791550 Europe_PL_Wielkopolskie:Medieval
12.70014173 Europe_EE_Parnu-County
12.70910697 Europe_PL_Kujawsko-Pomorskie
12.89168724 Europe_PL_Mazowieckie
12.94686835 Europe_PL_Pomorskie-Kashubia

Sample GRK023
Amerindian 0
Arabian 0
Armenian 0
Basque 1.56
Central African 0
Central Euro 0
East African 0
East Asian 0
East Balkan 5.9
East Central Asian 0
East Central Euro 24.88
East Med 0
Eastern Euro 16.4
Fennoscandian 16.37
French 5.68
Iberian 1.1
Indo-Chinese 0
Italian 0
Malayan 0
Near Eastern 0
North African 0
North Atlantic 13.99
North Caucasian 0
North Sea 12.72
Northeast African 0
Oceanian 0
Omotic 0
Pygmy 0
Siberian 0
South Asian 0
South Central Asian 0
South Chinese 0
Volga-Ural 1.39
West African 0
West Caucasian 0
West Med 0

Maybe it is a Gothic-Baltic mixed person?

**Peterski** · 09-11-2025, 05:31 PM

Now a comparison using G25 and Europe1 PCA:

As can be seen Grodek_Tribal is more Balkan-shifted and Grodek_Medieval more Baltic-shifted:

https://vahaduo.github.io/g25views/#Europe1

Code:

Grodek_Medieval:GRK001,0.132035,0.128972,0.069013,0.056848,0.042162,0.019801,0.011986,0.007846,-0.005318,-0.021322,-0.004384,-0.009442,0.022596,0.026699,-0.008686,0.002254,0.008345,-0.006208,-0.004399,0.004252,-0.004866,-0.009892,0.010846,-0.007591,-0.006945
Grodek_Medieval:GRK005,0.138864,0.123895,0.07731,0.076874,0.043393,0.032909,0.011751,0.014999,0.004704,-0.0277,-0.002111,-0.009891,0.02334,0.023121,-0.016829,-0.002784,0.010952,-0.005194,0.00817,0.004502,-0.002745,-0.008408,0.00912,-0.015183,0.00455
Grodek_Medieval:GRK006,0.127482,0.12491,0.071653,0.068153,0.048009,0.025658,0.008225,0.009461,-0.001841,-0.026789,-0.007795,-0.013338,0.016501,0.017065,-0.009093,0.000928,0.006128,-0.00038,0.006536,0.01038,-0.002371,-0.003833,0.000246,-0.009399,0.00012
Grodek_Medieval:GRK007,0.126344,0.126941,0.058077,0.042636,0.042777,0.012829,0.012456,0.014999,-0.003681,-0.010387,-0.001624,-0.002997,0.015312,0.017203,-0.006243,0.008353,0.008475,0.003927,0.007416,-0.003502,-0.004991,-0.005564,0.001725,-0.009278,-0.00946
Grodek_Medieval:GRK009,0.130897,0.121864,0.072784,0.069122,0.040007,0.018128,0.012221,0.015692,-0.001432,-0.024237,-0.005034,-0.000599,0.021258,0.026836,-0.015744,-0.012861,-0.00678,-0.002787,0.004274,0.001626,-0.010107,-0.00136,0.0053,-0.007832,-0.000958
Grodek_Medieval:GRK012,0.129758,0.123895,0.059585,0.059109,0.045239,0.013945,0.01034,0.01223,-0.001432,-0.024602,0.001461,-0.01094,0.022894,0.020781,-0.013572,0.012198,0.02047,-0.005701,-0.004777,0.006628,-0.006738,-0.009274,0.011832,-0.008073,-0.00491
Grodek_Tribal:GRK004,0.132035,0.128972,0.066373,0.048127,0.048624,0.010877,0.011751,0.010153,0.003068,-0.013485,-0.008119,-0.005695,0.005203,0.021332,-0.010722,-0.000133,0.005215,0.00114,0.005531,0.008379,-0.005865,0.00779,0.008134,-0.007471,0.007544
Grodek_Tribal:GRK008,0.140002,0.12491,0.06675,0.054587,0.038161,0.018407,0.008225,0.004154,0.003272,-0.026424,-0.005359,-0.001499,0.011744,0.015551,-0.012758,0.01538,0.022035,-0.007728,-0.002765,0.003502,0,-0.004946,0.008751,-0.007471,-0.002155
Grodek_Tribal:GRK010,0.136588,0.13405,0.059208,0.040698,0.043085,0.01757,0.00893,0.008538,-0.002863,-0.015672,-0.004872,-0.008093,0.006095,0.019405,-0.010722,0.003447,0.010952,-0.001014,0.013324,-0.000375,0.00287,0.001607,0.003944,-0.009399,-0.000359
Grodek_Tribal:GRK011,0.134311,0.118817,0.056191,0.053941,0.030159,0.020917,0.00705,0.011538,0.001023,-0.021322,0.00747,-0.005845,0.014717,0.019818,-0.011536,0.000796,0.00339,0.00114,-0.001131,-0.000875,-0.009733,-0.005812,0.008134,-0.005181,-0.000958
Grodek_Tribal:GRK013,0.136588,0.125926,0.069013,0.057817,0.0437,0.016176,0.011751,0.015922,-0.002863,-0.019317,0.002111,-0.006894,0.015015,0.01913,-0.0095,-0.005436,-0.007041,0.003294,0.007416,-0.001376,-0.005989,-0.008656,0.008258,-0.012291,0.002395
Grodek_Tribal:GRK014,0.12862,0.132019,0.054305,0.03553,0.038161,0.006972,0.003995,0,-0.003272,-0.005649,-0.001949,0.002398,0.001338,0.016102,-0.008822,0.001458,0.011083,0.007728,0.014707,0.004877,-0.00262,0.004575,0.006162,0.001325,0.006945
Grodek_Tribal:GRK015,0.125205,0.11577,0.059962,0.042313,0.031698,0.018407,0.00423,0.008769,0.000409,-0.01385,0.001786,-0.003147,0.00669,0.010459,-0.003529,0.013259,0.015255,-0.004561,0.000628,0.002501,-0.003494,-0.003586,0.010599,-0.000723,-0.001317

**Peterski** · 09-11-2025, 08:50 PM

So we have these samples from Przeworsk in G25:

(I'm not sure why but in Ajeje's spreadsheet PCA0011 and PCA0012 have a bit different coordinates)

Code:

Przeworsk_Gaski_PCA0011,0.127482,0.128972,0.060716,0.057494,0.036622,0.015339,0.007285,-0.003923,0.000614,0.001276,-0.004872,-0.001349,-0.015758,-0.009221,0.020358,0.005701,-0.00339,0.001647,0.003394,0.008629,0.003119,0.011252,0.012325,0.013134,-0.002754
Przeworsk_Gaski_PCA0012,0.134311,0.145221,0.054682,0.030685,0.050163,0.007809,-0.00141,0.006,0.013908,0.01877,-0.003085,0.01154,-0.01115,-0.007982,0.013843,0.011138,0.005215,0.006588,0.006536,-0.001626,-0.001373,0.001731,-0.000616,-0.001446,-0.00012
Przeworsk_Czulice_czu001,0.121791,0.133034,0.075801,0.070737,0.042469,0.017012,0.00188,0.011307,0.006749,-0.002369,-0.005196,0.004946,-0.013379,-0.013762,0.021444,0.025722,0.004433,-0.003294,-0.002891,0.008754,0.013102,0.000618,-0.002095,0.019882,-0.001197
Przeworsk_Boczne_PC1001,0.135449,0.131003,0.060716,0.046189,0.035391,0.022869,-0.00188,0.003,-0.000818,0.005832,-0.009256,0.012739,-0.012339,-0.011147,0.009229,0.018165,0.011865,0.007855,0.010433,0.000625,0.001248,0.010881,-0.003451,0.009519,-0.011975
Przeworsk_Zarska_PC1004,0.140002,0.142174,0.060339,0.052326,0.038161,0.027331,0.014101,0.004615,-0.006545,0.000364,-0.001624,0.001349,-0.0055,-0.02202,0.002986,0.016441,0.007823,-0.003674,0.002514,0.01138,-0.000125,0.011129,0.000986,0.017593,-0.014969
Przeworsk_Zarska_PC1005,0.135449,0.146236,0.060716,0.054587,0.048624,0.019801,0.006345,0.007615,-0.005522,0.001822,0.000974,0.006145,-0.009514,-0.011836,0.019544,0.008221,0.014473,-0.000507,0.007416,0.008254,0.002496,0.000371,0.003081,0.017593,-0.012574
Przeworsk_Koziarnia_PC1009,0.142279,0.126941,0.059208,0.038114,0.041238,0.018128,0.000705,0.009923,-0.012067,0.010387,0.002598,0.004946,0.000743,-0.006331,0.002714,0.001326,0.005607,0.003674,0.004022,-0.002376,0.007237,0.009274,0.003697,0.012652,-0.001317
Przeworsk_Koziarnia_PC1016,0.132035,0.141159,0.061094,0.027132,0.049855,0.005857,0.00235,0.02723,0.013294,0.012939,0.006171,0.028025,-0.003717,-0.012386,0.03678,0.027446,0.009257,0.010135,0.004399,0.013381,0.004492,0.003957,-0.002465,0.006145,0.012454

Average:

Code:

Przeworsk_N8,0.1335998,0.1368425,0.061659,0.047158,0.0428154,0.0167682,0.003672,0.0082209,0.0012016,0.0061276,-0.0017862,0.0085426,-0.0088268,-0.0118356,0.0158622,0.01427,0.0069104,0.002803,0.0044779,0.0058776,0.0037745,0.0061516,0.0014328,0.011884,-0.0040565

The average for these 8 Przeworsk culture samples lies exactly along the cline connecting Gauls with Germanics:

^^^
I used populations from my "World 6th century BC" calculator:

https://www.exploreyourdna.com/calcu...apuscinski.htm

**cass** · 09-11-2025, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by Peterski

There is also one Slavic-like ancient sample from Grodek, dated to 245 - 402 AD:

Distance to: GRK023
11.26423544 Europe_PL_Pomorskie-Kluki:Slovincians
11.74814028 Europe_PL_Warmia-Masuria
12.01737492 Europe_BY_Brest-Region
12.23638836 Europe_PL_Central-Poland
12.29588142 Europe_BY_Mogilev-Region
12.56791550 Europe_PL_Wielkopolskie:Medieval
12.70014173 Europe_EE_Parnu-County
12.70910697 Europe_PL_Kujawsko-Pomorskie
12.89168724 Europe_PL_Mazowieckie
12.94686835 Europe_PL_Pomorskie-Kashubia

Sample GRK023
Amerindian 0
Arabian 0
Armenian 0
Basque 1.56
Central African 0
Central Euro 0
East African 0
East Asian 0
East Balkan 5.9
East Central Asian 0
East Central Euro 24.88
East Med 0
Eastern Euro 16.4
Fennoscandian 16.37
French 5.68
Iberian 1.1
Indo-Chinese 0
Italian 0
Malayan 0
Near Eastern 0
North African 0
North Atlantic 13.99
North Caucasian 0
North Sea 12.72
Northeast African 0
Oceanian 0
Omotic 0
Pygmy 0
Siberian 0
South Asian 0
South Central Asian 0
South Chinese 0
Volga-Ural 1.39
West African 0
West Caucasian 0
West Med 0

Maybe it is a Gothic-Baltic mixed person?

SampleGRK023,0,0,0,1.56,0,0,0,0,5.9,0,24.88,0,16.4 ,16.37,5.68,1.1,0,0,0,0,0,13.99,0,12.72,0,0,0,0,0, 0,0,0,1.39,0,0,0

Distance to: SampleGRK023
10.70595629 Poland_Bronze_Age_Silesia_I6579
12.77740193 Poland_Corded_Ware_Ancient_Kujawy_N49
13.18060317 Poland_Corded_Ware_Ancient_Kujawy_N47
16.02013109 cass
16.05205283 Ancient_Baltic:Lithuania_Spiginas2
16.06531357 Ancient_Baltic:Lithuania_Plinkaigalis242
16.46209282 Russia_Sungir6_I2a1
16.49238006 Early_Slavic:Early_Medieval_Pole_AV2
16.61704847 Sigtuna_Viking_grt036
17.03584750 Sigtuna_Viking_urm160
17.13174539 Sweden_Pitted_Ware_3000_BC_Ajvide58
17.68584180 Srubnaya_KZB002
18.07070004 Poland_Suwalki_Vs_1188_R1a
18.15395549 Russia_EBA_Volgograd_RISE555
18.15755215 Ancient_Baltic:Lithuania_Kretuonas2
18.16015694 Poland_Suwalki_Turlojske1_R1a
18.24244227 Srubnaya_KZB009
18.60789617 Germanic:Szolad_SZ25_Langobard
18.60789617 Szolad_SZ25_Langobard
18.68594124 Poland_Corded_Ware_Ancient_Kujawy_N45
18.72137548 West_Scythian_MJ13
18.77531358 Unetice_I0116
18.88356428 Ukraine_Vovnigi_N1
19.00431530 Samara_EHG_I0124_5600_BC
19.40112626 Sunghir6_(Sikora2017)_Russia

Looks like a Bronze Age relic, let's wait for G25.

**Peterski** · 09-12-2025, 01:21 AM

Originally Posted by cass

Looks like a Bronze Age relic, let's wait for G25.

G25:

Code:

GRK023,0.135449,0.125926,0.087115,0.078489,0.048932,0.030678,0.006345,0.012923,0.00225,-0.023326,-0.005196,-0.01124,0.015758,0.022708,-0.002579,0.004773,-0.009127,0.001647,0.005405,-5e-04,-0.001373,0.005564,-0.000246,-0.002169,-0.002275

**Wandal** · 09-12-2025, 02:36 AM

Originally Posted by Peterski

The Slavs are a major ethnolinguistic group of Europe, yet the process that led to their formation remains disputed. As of the sixth century CE, people supposedly belonging to the Slavs populated the space between the Avar Khaganate in the Carpathian Basin, the Merovingian Frankish Empire to the West and the Balkan Peninsula to the South. Proposed theories to explain those events are, however, conceptually incompatible, as some invoke major population movements while others stress the continuity of local populations.

This is just more "academic" propaganda which is designed to hide the common origins of peoples. If we accept the "official" chronology, around 50 A.D. Goths were living from the Słucz river in Volhynia, to the Pripec, and even further west. Simply because a subculture cremates the dead while others bury them in a position facing west (setting sun) does not mean they are completely separate peoples. Tacitus, Ptolemy, Strabo all mention these peoples (not always by the same names). Emperor Justinian called the Sauromatians Goths.

"Who were the Slavs" is a nonsenscial question once we see it comes from "scholars" and Jordanes who invented "Slavs" instead of using the names these people called themselves.
"Goth" is Sumerian and refers to all Nordic peoples residing anywhere.

To look for the origins of these people use the name they called themselves and the names they gave the Baltic Sea (Morze Wendyjskie) and the Carpathian Mountains (Góry Wendyjskie).
Most recently at that time they came from the Azov Sea region. (a distance of 1500 kilometres.)

Also see the book by the German scholar Krantz, Wandalia. (The Vandals and the Venedovians are the same people).

To get a bigger picture see the books by L.A. Waddell.

**~~Feiichy~~** · 09-12-2025, 05:02 PM

Major conclusions from the paper:

Slavic migrations completely transformed genetic landscape of eastern, central and southeastern Europe

- Slavs replaced local population in Germany and Croatia up to 80%, less in northern Russia
- much of central and eastern Germany had Sorb like genetic profile and area was later re-Germanized in Ostsidelung
- modern Croats are less than 80% Slavic today, so post-medieval there was resurgence of local Balkan ancestry
- Poland is def. not the origin of proto Slavs and Germanic tribes lived in Poland before Slavs emigrated from the east and almost completely replaced old population
- proto Slavs already acquired EEF enriched ancestry in forest zone of northeastern Europe
- Slavic migrations included mass population movements with women and children, unlike Germanic warrior male dominated migrations
- Croatian medieval Slavs share more IBD with German medieval Slavs than both share with Polish Slav samples which is somewhat surprising
- R1a M458 is not a good marker of proto Slavs and seems it was Slavicized in central Europe already after formation of early Slavs. Two main early Slavic lineages are instead R1a Z280 and I2a Y3210.

**KirillMazur** · 09-12-2025, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by Feiichy

Major conclusions from the paper:

Slavic migrations completely transformed genetic landscape of eastern, central and southeastern Europe

It would be interesting to know whether there ever existed "pure" Slavs without Baltic, Germanic, Finno-Ugric, Turkic, Balkan and other admixtures? Or without all this, Slavs are indistinguishable from R1 pre-Arab Iranics?

**~~Feiichy~~** · 09-12-2025, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by KirillMazur

It would be interesting to know whether there ever existed "pure" Slavs without Baltic, Germanic, Finno-Ugric, Turkic, Balkan and other admixtures? Or without all this, Slavs are indistinguishable from R1 pre-Arab Iranics?

I created proto Slavic G25 coords by following guidelines from this paper and it's closest to:

Distance to: Proto_Slav

0.01415176 Belarusian
0.01428394 Russian_Smolensk
0.01598366 Russian_Voronezh
0.01631404 Ukrainian_Rivne
0.01721179 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr
0.01737822 Ukrainian_Sumy
0.01743548 Ukrainian_Chernihiv
0.01903361 Russian_Kaluga
0.01975875 Lithuanian_PA
0.01978615 Ukrainian_Dnipro