Are French people Celtic, Germanic or Latin in DNA?

[J.S.]

G25/nMonte does not recover true ancestral composition. It only finds the best geometric fit of a target in PCA space using the source populations you give it. So if you model French people with ‘Celtic’, ‘Germanic’ and ‘Latin’ proxies, the result is just the best approximation within that reference set, not a biologically real breakdown of French DNA.

[J.S.]

An interesting topic, so I created a model generally based on the 400–200 BC period, with the exception of Eastern European ones. I skipped the English sample because I’m not sure how to assign it.







It may be interpreted differently depending on the distance.

This model does not work because nMonte is fitting French targets to the available ancient sources as a geometric best fit in PCA space, not recovering their true biological ancestry. A low distance only means the coordinates were approximated well with that source set; it does not validate the historical meaning of the components or make the solution uniquely true.”

[cass]

“It is said that in his wars in Gaul he slew a million men and enslaved another million.”
— Plutarch, Parallel Lives (Life of Caesar)


Since the invasion of Gaul by Julius Caesar, France has undergone continuous and significant population changes driven by warfare, migrations, and long-term demographic shifts.

[Beowulf]

I think no one has addressed this before, but France's Iron Age appears to be more Northern shifted than Southern Germany's Iron Age.

The main takeaway from this is the the (relative) Northern shift of the Northern French and the Walloons doesn't require any additional Germanic ancestry. Their own population from the Iron Age has enough "Northerness" to make up for it.

Germany_West-Hallstattkreis_EIA(n=22),0.125723,0.143744,0.051803,0.018396,0.046078,0.003499,0.000299,0.003671,0.014809,0.023881,-0.002768,0.007705,-0.016387,-0.008833,0.003671,0.003646,0.000604,0.001491,0.004257,-0.000682,0.002376,0.003839,0.000482,-0.001117,-0.000354
France_GrandEst_IA1.SG,0.1233842,0.14583,0.0551352,0.0204782,0.0408074,-0.0001672,-0.0033372,0.0064614,0.0155028,0.0165472,-0.0018512,0.0083028,-0.0170664,-0.0113952,0.0121332,0.0041368,-0.0007042,-0.0004816,0.0024134,0.0048274,0.0010484,-0.0005194,-0.009564,-0.0019522,-0.0021074
France_GrandEst_IA2,0.1277096,0.1367916,0.057624,0.0362406,0.0469625,0.0108209,0.005499,0.0028846,0.0085288,0.0121734,-0.0034263,0.0071935,-0.0125322,-0.008794,0.0130562,-0.0031025,-0.0104828,0.0017104,0.0024637,-0.0009129,0.0050038,0.0049585,-0.0013803,-0.0012772,-0.0015806
France_GrandEst_IA2.SG,0.1270264,0.1470486,0.050308,0.0319124,0.0350218,0.0097054,-0.001504,0.0066458,0.006504,0.014287,-0.0005196,-0.0015286,-0.0125768,-0.0069636,0.0104232,0.000451,-0.0093616,-0.0007856,0.0045002,-0.0015758,-0.0027702,0.0054902,0.002046,-0.0082902,0.0022512
France_HautsDeFrance_IA2.SG,0.1160995,0.141666,0.0482715,0.038114,0.0460085,0.0161755,-0.0057575,0.004846,0.0114535,0.018406,-0.0021925,0.006594,-0.021184,-0.0124545,0.0109255,0.002917,-0.002021,0.009755,0.007856,-0.003189,0.0010605,0.006121,0.010106,-0.002169,0.0032335
French_Alsace,0.127311,0.140372,0.050317,0.022432,0.038423,0.008911,0.00292,0.004875,0.006852,0.010679,-0.003134,0.004578,-0.009444,-0.00417,0.008561,0.003066,-0.004893,0.002439,0.003243,-0.000716,0.002764,0.001156,-0.001322,0.007137,-0.000314
French_Auvergne,0.125416,0.144656,0.04742,0.012992,0.043472,0.003997,-0.000339,0.002513,0.015407,0.022172,-0.002466,0.007355,-0.013969,-0.009669,0.008299,0.001483,-0.000787,0.001497,0.003073,-0.000213,0.001858,0.003737,-0.002282,0.001816,-8.9e-05
French_Bearn,0.126799,0.144814,0.053589,0.006008,0.053949,0.002175,-0.001692,-0.002054,0.024461,0.039891,-0.008866,0.010236,-0.018999,-0.014327,0.014169,0.001578,-0.005724,-0.000899,-0.001735,-0.003302,0.005465,0.003141,-0.006643,-0.00817,0.000683
French_Bigorre,0.128051,0.147353,0.052269,0.00533,0.052225,-0.000837,-0.001669,0.000162,0.024809,0.03827,-0.003085,0.007883,-0.021481,-0.014148,0.00874,0.000186,-0.003559,0.002369,-0.000892,-0.002914,0.002508,-0.00089,-0.003291,-0.005904,0.00103
French_Chalosse,0.128734,0.14776,0.051892,0.011176,0.051333,0.002761,0.00047,0.001777,0.025259,0.039655,-0.002696,0.008947,-0.020337,-0.015083,0.011088,0.002824,-0.005424,0.001672,-0.000779,-0.002239,0.008273,0.002844,-0.007691,-0.007664,-0.002096
French_Nord,0.128275,0.140543,0.051357,0.025605,0.038273,0.008891,0.001097,0.00442,0.008373,0.012016,-0.003484,0.004033,-0.010861,-0.008182,0.011199,0.002543,-0.004607,0.002227,0.004095,0.001031,0.002133,0.001525,-0.001572,0.007471,1.4e-05
French_Occitanie,0.127039,0.144883,0.048879,0.017908,0.043376,0.003416,0.000522,0.003891,0.014856,0.023589,-0.003288,0.006582,-0.015044,-0.009458,0.010737,0.002567,-0.003709,0.002484,0.001425,4.5e-05,0.003671,0.002446,-0.00255,0.001767,0.000422
French_Paris,0.127171,0.141436,0.050431,0.02399,0.040903,0.009305,0.002799,0.005454,0.011602,0.018174,-0.007706,0.006812,-0.012906,-0.010384,0.01377,0.006063,-0.001825,0.004664,0.002708,-0.000978,0.002201,0.003575,-0.001232,0.011141,-0.001905
French_Pas-de-Calais,0.127861,0.140481,0.054305,0.026809,0.042162,0.012736,0.004152,0.001308,0.008522,0.012453,-0.008011,0.002198,-0.01001,-0.012019,0.013663,0.008132,-0.000478,0.001816,-0.003645,0.004252,0.009982,0.001443,-0.002547,0.005904,-0.001437
French_Provence,0.121925,0.143847,0.036891,0.005358,0.036858,0.00233,0.002267,0.003638,0.010058,0.020453,-0.003869,0.007211,-0.012138,-0.010961,0.005956,0.003174,0.001097,0.002809,0.001775,-0.001515,0.001541,0.002735,0.000355,0.005444,3.5e-05
French_Seine-Maritime,0.136019,0.137096,0.045254,0.029555,0.039084,0.016733,0.00423,-0.000692,0.003988,0.006014,-0.003735,0.007493,-0.007582,-0.001651,0.014251,0.003514,-0.007953,-0.002344,0.000943,-0.005002,0.003931,0.005503,0.000863,0.004278,-0.004491
French_South,0.126181,0.144785,0.049618,0.00886,0.050691,0.002669,0.000269,0.002275,0.02764,0.03866,-0.006774,0.007365,-0.021853,-0.013566,0.010373,0.002765,-0.005104,0.001792,0.000215,0.001912,0.004991,-0.00083,-0.005264,-0.007557,-0.00142
BelgianC,0.126875,0.142987,0.053249,0.023149,0.040582,0.009501,0.00141,0.004738,0.010826,0.014397,-0.003161,0.006314,-0.012269,-0.009303,0.012034,0.001715,-0.004955,0.001098,0.001592,0.000367,0.002729,0.002844,-0.001142,0.009335,-0.001932

Just wanted to try it myself for fun

Distance to:	Beowulf_Scaled
0.01507079	French_Provence
0.01788330	French_Auvergne
0.02117303	French_Occitanie
0.02275743	Germany_West-Hallstattkreis_EIA(n=22)
0.02798532	French_Paris
0.02860025	BelgianC
0.02911618	French_Alsace
0.02981473	France_GrandEst_IA1.SG
0.03041336	French_Nord
0.03417109	French_South
0.03422303	French_Bigorre
0.03422925	French_Pas-de-Calais
0.03674948	French_Chalosse
0.03745202	French_Bearn
0.03769738	France_GrandEst_IA2.SG
0.04189232	French_Seine-Maritime
0.04359090	France_GrandEst_IA2
0.04510013	France_HautsDeFrance_IA2.SG

[Flashball]

“It is said that in his wars in Gaul he slew a million men and enslaved another million.”
— Plutarch, Parallel Lives (Life of Caesar)


Since the invasion of Gaul by Julius Caesar, France has undergone continuous and significant population changes driven by warfare, migrations, and long-term demographic shifts.

No genetic study concludes that; in fact, it's quite the opposite.
https://i.ibb.co/XxFN2QRX/image.png

[J. Ketch]

No genetic study concludes that; in fact, it's quite the opposite.
https://i.ibb.co/XxFN2QRX/image.png

That study has no figures to back up its claims, it also comes from France. Two reasons it can't be trusted.

[Flashball]

That study has no figures to back up its claims, it also comes from France. Two reasons it can't be trusted.

France is one of the most "anti-Gaul" countries (in the true sense of the term: this heritage is the most denied and despised) as well as one of the most anti-racist. Most researchers are moderate, if not extreme, anti-racists. Why would these people want to admit a relative genetic continuity between Iron Age or Medieval populations and 21st-century French populations, when doing so goes against their own anti-racist and anti-Gaul dogmas?

It doesn't really make sense.

They didn't conclude this because it pleased them; that would be a misunderstanding of most French researchers (geneticists and others).
They analyzed various data sets and simply concluded that Roman/non-native contributions were not significant.
They didn't say there was zero % non-native contribution; they concluded it wasn't significant based on the various data sets from different periods in France.

What did you expect? Your analysis doesn't even take into account the political leanings (leftist) of most researchers (in this context, geneticists and anthropogeneticists); it is completely disconnected from reality.

[J. Ketch]

France is one of the most "anti-Gaul" countries (in the true sense of the term: this heritage is the most denied and despised) as well as one of the most anti-racist. Most researchers are moderate, if not extreme, anti-racists. Why would these people want to admit a relative genetic continuity between Iron Age or Medieval populations and 21st-century French populations, when doing so goes against their own anti-racist and anti-Gaul dogmas?

It doesn't really make sense.

They didn't conclude this because it pleased them; that would be a misunderstanding of most French researchers (geneticists and others).
They analyzed various data sets and simply concluded that Roman/non-native contributions were not significant.
They didn't say there was zero % non-native contribution; they concluded it wasn't significant based on the various data sets from different periods in France.

What did you expect? Your analysis doesn't even take into account the political leanings (leftist) of most researchers (in this context, geneticists and anthropogeneticists); it is completely disconnected from reality.

Why would you take as gospel a study from biased academics that has no numbers? Why would you assume 'continuity' means the French having no significant non-Gaulish ancestry?