R1a problem

[Orion Arm]

~80% of Yamnaya males belong to haplogroup R1b, and so far not a single R1a individual has been found.

Direct inheritance between Yamnaya and Bell Beaker is clear.

However, origins of R1a and Corded Ware are as mysterious in 2026 as they were in 2015, and the progress over the past decade remains limited.

Where do you think R1a really came from?

[J. Ketch]

Bell Beaker's direct ancestry from Yamnaya is clear? Did they fly to Western Europe?

[Orion Arm]

Bell Beaker's direct ancestry from Yamnaya is clear? Did they fly to Western Europe?

R1b males migrated westward first; after that, the R1a ones arrived and slammed the door shut. The question isn’t really where the R1b males came from — about 80% of Yamnaya males are R1b. The question is where the R1a males came from — and filled the space between Yamnaya and their descendants in Western Europe.

The in-between space — Poland, Slovakia — the R1b males crossed it on their way to Western Europe.

After that Poland and Slovakia received an influx of R1a males of a mysterious origin (not Yamnaya).

What is your best guess on the mysterious origin of R1a males who replaced the R1b ones in Poland and Slovakia? Where did they come from?

[Benyzero]

chatgpt answer. R1b became dominant in southern steppe Yamnaya elites. R1a likely rose in northern forest-steppe / steppe frontier groups closely related to them, then exploded with Corded Ware and later Sintashta.

So R1a is probably a sibling phenomenon to Yamnaya, not an alien mystery outside the steppe.

[Figaro]

Sredny Stog, dawg

[Orion Arm]

chatgpt answer. R1b became dominant in southern steppe Yamnaya elites. R1a likely rose in northern forest-steppe / steppe frontier groups closely related to them, then exploded with Corded Ware and later Sintashta.

So R1a is probably a sibling phenomenon to Yamnaya, not an alien mystery outside the steppe.

That's my guess as well that R1a males lived directly to the North of Yamnaya, but not a single burial site with a predominance of R1a males had been discovered so far, so it remains speculative.

Why are Yamnaya burial sites all R1b and no R1a? Did they intentionally segregate?

[Orion Arm]

Sredny Stog, dawg

Sredny Stog is way older than Yamnaya and occupied the same geographical space.

Where did they go after they were pushed out of that area by R1b males?

[Peterski]

Yamnaya R1b is all R1b-Z2103.

While Bell Beaker R1b is all R1b-L51, so there is also no direct continuity between these two groups. But there are samples of R1b-L51 from the Corded Ware Culture, so Corded Ware was not all R1a, R1b also existed there.

Bell Beaker R1b-L51 comes from Western Corded Ware, not directly from Yamnaya.

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Here you have a datasheet with R1a and R1b ancient samples sorted chronologically:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

Based on this data I started making a map of PIE expansion, but I haven't finished yet:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/4/ed...rQ&usp=sharing

[Figaro]

R1a BattleAxe…how instrumental in forging proto-Germanic? Interaction with R1b SG/BB? Maybe related topic and sorry if kinda irrelevant here

[J. Ketch]

R1b males migrated westward first; after that, the R1a ones arrived and slammed the door shut. The question isn’t really where the R1b males came from — about 80% of Yamnaya males are R1b. The question is where the R1a males came from — and filled the space between Yamnaya and their descendants in Western Europe.

The in-between space — Poland, Slovakia — the R1b males crossed it on their way to Western Europe.

After that Poland and Slovakia received an influx of R1a males of a mysterious origin (not Yamnaya).

What is your best guess on the mysterious origin of R1a males who replaced the R1b ones in Poland and Slovakia? Where did they come from?

What I was getting at is what Peterski has said, Bell Beaker is clearly directly descended from Corded Ware, not Yamnaya.

As for the origin of R1a, one can only go by the earliest recorded sample of it, which I believe is from Northwestern Russia c.10,000 BC, Eastern Hunter Gatherers. Corded Ware were autosomally descended from the Pontic Caspian Steppe like their Yamnaya cousins though. So somewhere in that vicinity I guess, in Ukraine.