Which side of Europe is the real Europe?

[Mortimer]

I think that historically western europe is the core and more famous europe nowadays eastern europe might be more homogenously white and patriotic but most inventions cultural and civilisational achievements were made historically in western europe eastern europeans were not even souvereign nations but part of western empires

[Blondie]

I think that historically western europe is the core and more famous europe nowadays eastern europe might be more homogenously white and patriotic but most inventions cultural and civilisational achievements were made historically in western europe eastern europeans were not even souvereign nations but part of western empires

So the Ottoman Empire and Russian Empire were western empires?

[tk'es]

South.

[majevica]

Balkan

[robertb]

I, in turn, feel close to no one actually. I think Greeks are something of their own.

I've had plenty of Russians tell me they're not European but something different, Russians. I kinda agree, technically they are in Europe but they also are part of Asia. Their history is different because they have a lot of non-European neighbors.

[Incal]

Until not so long ago, Western Europe was the only Europe.

[Etelfrido]

Ancient Greece and Byzantium, as it seems, have been left out of the equation.

Despite the fact that they objectively hold enormous influence in the intellectual development of these regions. Especially Italy. The Renaissance was the direct result of migration of Greek scholars fleeing from Constantinople in the 15th century. And many of the editiones principes of the classics in print are from Greek scholars. Especially the Iliad and Odyssey, which were issued first by Demetrius Chalkokondyles.

Byzantine scholars were certainly great contributors to the Renaissance but it's unfair to attribute the start of it to them, otherwise it would've started in Byzantium. In The Foundations of Modern Political Thought by Quentin Skinner there's a mention of Otto of Freising's observations on the Italian socio-political organization at the time, long before the fall of the Byzantine Empire:

One peculiarity he noted was that Italian society had apparently ceased to be feudal in character. He found that 'practically the entire land is divided among the cities' and that 'scarcely any noble or great man can be found in all the surrounding territory who does not acknowledge the authority of his city' (p. 127). The other development he observed - which struck him as even more subversive - was that the cities had evolved a form of political life entirely at odds with the prevailing assumption that hereditary monarchy constituted the only sound form of government. They had become 'so desirous of liberty' that they had turned themselves into independent Republics, each governed by the will of consuls rather than rulers', whom they 'changed almost every year' in order to ensure that their 'lust for power' was controlled and the freedom of the people maintained (p. 127).

Many important Italian intellectuals had already sprung before the 15th century and for that reason it's not surprising the start of the Renaissance is often said to have begun before the conquest of the Ottomans:

Many argue that the ideas characterizing the Renaissance had their origin in Florence at the turn of the 13th and 14th centuries, in particular with the writings of Dante Alighieri (1265–1321) and Petrarch (1304–1374), as well as the paintings of Giotto di Bondone (1267–1337). Some writers date the Renaissance quite precisely; one proposed starting point is 1401, when the rival geniuses Lorenzo Ghiberti and Filippo Brunelleschi competed for the contract to build the bronze doors for the Baptistery of the Florence Cathedral (Ghiberti then won).[28] Others see more general competition between artists and polymaths such as Brunelleschi, Ghiberti, Donatello, and Masaccio for artistic commissions as sparking the creativity of the Renaissance.

One can't forget the crucial importance of the Italian maritime republics that incentivized commerce and competition on the Peninsula, some of them dating back to the 9th century. The modern banking system arose in Italy and wealth was pivotal for the viability of the Renaissance since artists needed sponsoring, see for example this image on Sienese bankers in the 13th century:



It's also important to note that apparently most Greeks went to Venice though scholars in particular seemed to prefer Rome, but the Renaissance started in Tuscany.

While in terms of numbers Venice was the most important centre for the Greeks in Italy, it was in Rome that the high-profile Byzantine emigres tended to congregate.

[Laredo]

When I think of Europe I think as something like Western Europe I never thought something like Eastern Europe existed In terms of life style.

They look like third world countries from Latin America to me. The white and safer version of course...

Actually not really that safe since they have Nazi groups there, In Latm crime Is more directed to any one affiliated with with drug cartels.

[Laredo]

I don't see why it matters when they are culturally distant and have totally different orientation. For a south Croat north Croat is very distant mentally but we are still same people.

Also I don't feel close to people that hate and envy us. On reditt askBalkans Croatia is constantly attacked by other Balkanites out of their inferiority complex and jealousy. I don't want anything to do with those people.

Why?

[dviz]

West Europe: best living standards, high social support, open minded and advanced societies, more human rights, liberal governments/mindset, LMBT, high happiness index, multiculturalism, great history including romans/colonial empires.

East Europe: nationalism, illiberal governments, lower living standards, lesser human rights, post communist but white societies, alcoholism, gangsters/mafia bosses, high corruption, peoples are proud of their country.

Both sides are just as European. Both have specific problems.

The Hungarian or Russian "solution" for dealing with woke-cultism by going autocratic is plain dumb.
If you can't deal with woke mobsters in a democratic way, then you deserve a dictatorship.