Which side of Europe is the real Europe?

[Your Old Comrade]

Money still has nothing to do with kultur and being more european, neither the other things what you said. By your logic the dutch millionaires are more european than you, because of their money. It makes no sense. Being european is not based on money and financial things.

Do you think there would have been a Renaissance without trade or that Cologne's Cathedral came out of thin air? The cities of Italy and places like Cologne had been growing rich of local and international trade for over 1000 years before they came into being. Culture and money have everything to do with each other. Culture needs to be paid for and it's a communal culture. Just look at Budapest. You know who turned these two shitty outposts at the end of Europe into a city called Budapest that could rival Paris ? The Austrians did.

St. Petersburg was modelled entirely on cities here in the West. Between Novgorod with its ties to the German/ Dutch Hanseatic League, and Peter the Great, Russia was a bad joke.

[Blondie]

Do you think there would have been a Renaissance without trade or that Cologne's Cathedral came out of thin air? The cities of Italy and places like Cologne had been growing rich of local and international trade for over 1000 years before they came into being. Culture and money have everything to do with each other. Culture needs to be paid for and it's a communal culture. Just look at Budapest. You know who turned these two shitty outposts at the end of Europe into a city called Budapest that could rival Paris ? The Austrians did.

St. Petersburg was modelled entirely on cities here in the West. Between Novgorod with its ties to the German/ Dutch Hanseatic League, and Peter the Great, Russia was a bad joke.

You are wrong again. Buda and Pest joined to each other in 1872-1873, the present form of Budapest (new buldings) was formed during the dualism when Hungary was completely independent domestically. The construction of Budapest was based on hungarian taxes, not austrian. The construction of Petrograd is also based on russian money.
And as i said money does not make you more european, its a very stupid mindset.

[Blondie]

London is one of the richest part of Europe, so by your logic its the most european:

[Your Old Comrade]

You are wrong again. Buda and Pest joined to each other in 1872-1873, the present form of Budapest (new buldings) was formed during the dualism when Hungary was completely independent domestically. The construction of Budapest was based on hungarian taxes, not austrian. The construction of Petrograd is also based on russian money.
And as i said money does not make you more european, its a very stupid mindset.

Under the Austrians. St.Petersburg was built on Finnish/Swedish land, with Russian labour and Western money. The East was, is and will always be mere perhery. More Asia than Europe. Influenced by Turks and Mongols.

[Zeno]

Historically, it's Western Europe. The core of Europe as always been along the zone between England, the Low Countries, Paris, the German Lands through Switzerland and Austria to Italy.

Ancient Greece and Byzantium, as it seems, have been left out of the equation.

Despite the fact that they objectively hold enormous influence in the intellectual development of these regions. Especially Italy. The Renaissance was the direct result of migration of Greek scholars fleeing from Constantinople in the 15th century. And many of the editiones principes of the classics in print are from Greek scholars. Especially the Iliad and Odyssey, which were issued first by Demetrius Chalkokondyles.

[Your Old Comrade]

Ancient Greece and Byzantium, as it seems, have been left out of the equation.

Despite the fact that they objectively hold enormous influence in the intellectual development of these regions. Especially Italy.

It started there, but sincd Rome, it moved West, and Byzantium stopped playing an important role in the West by the 12th century.

[Zeno]

It started there, but sincd Rome, it moved West, and Byzantium stopped playing an important role in the West by the 12th century.

Check out the edit in my comment. It really didn't stop playing a role in the 12th century. The Renaissance certainly didn't pop up spontaneously in Italy.

[Blondie]

Under the Austrians. St.Petersburg was built on Finnish/Swedish land, with Russian labour and Western money. The East was, is and will always be mere perhery. More Asia than Europe. Influenced by Turks and Mongols.

What under austrians? Budapest was bulid by hungarians with hungarian money. Austria-Hungary was a dualist monarchy with common army and common foreign policy, but both side had independent domestic policy.
Petrograd was build by russians and russian money.

Do you want to say that the multicultural Amsterdam is more dutch than rural Netherlands? According to your logic yes, because Amsterdam has more money than a dutch village.

[Your Old Comrade]

Check out the edit in my comment. It really didn't stop playing a role in the 12th century. The Renaissance certainly didn't pop up spontaneously in Italy.

The role of Constitanople is grossly overstated as the Italian proto-Renaissance had already started by the early 14th century.

[Your Old Comrade]

What under austrians? Budapest was bulid by hungarians with hungarian money. Austria-Hungary was a dualist monarchy with common army and common foreign policy, but both side had independent domestic policy.
Petrograd was build by russians and russian money.

Do you want to say that the multicultural Amsterdam is more dutch than rural Netherlands? According to your logic yes, because Amsterdam has more money than a dutch village.

Wrong. That dual monarchy only came much later. 1867. As for Amsterdam. Most of the things we now think of as Dutch would not have been around if it wasn't for Amsterdam, Dordrecht, Antwerp, Bruges etc.