[Split] Pinguin's Americas vs the (Euro) world

[Twistedmind]

That's yours problem, Twistedmind, you have not much knowledge about our continent's heritage. For instance, you could start studying Nezahualcoyotl and his poetry, all the body of Mayan writing that has been deciphered, the chronicles of the Conquest, The Popol Vuh and the Chilam Balam, and a huge body of scientific studies of the zone. Otherwise, there won't have a base of comparison.

Somehow I strongly doubt that works, even if they are comparable with Greek and Roman, left as much trace in culture of Latin America, as European ones.

Our civilization is Latin American, with a Spanish and Native roots, but also with a strong influence of the United States and other modern superpowers. We are a modern country, which doesn't means we should be considered western; much than Japanese or Chinese are Western.

Hm, United States are European based culturally. (or European centric)

Comparing Greeks with Romans is like comparing pears and apples. Greeks are the roots of western civilization. Romans were just good engineers and jurists.

They left us good thing than nobody should be punished without trial. Also, in Latin literature, many knowledges of ancient Greece were preserved and handed down to Western Europeans. I am Eastern European, and Greek influence here was more direct, but... Romans were not just good ingeneers, Horacio, Cicero.

Americans are Roman lovers, but in our culture Romans are described as the killers of Christ and the persecutors of early Christians. A brutal people.

Persecuted Christians were also Romans, and Greek polytheists were also persecuting Christians. But what would Chruch historian know about it compared with math and physics freak.

So don't assume yours knowledge of Greek culture is better than mine.

Since unlike you, I know Ancient Greek, and had Greek philosophy. Red most of Plato's work I will be bold to presume.

The important point in here is that your knowledge of Native American cultures is very poor. Respectfully, recognize it, and fix it, before starting an argument.

Point is noboy ever considered it equal to Roman and Greek. And fact how much I know about them is not that rellevant. It is enough for me to know Greek and Roman culture were superior to them.
With all due respect, Incas did not even posses script, and Mayan and Aztec sculptures are not even close to Greek or Roman. Nor we could speak about highly developed philosophy, theories of politics and so on.

[pinguino]

Somehow I strongly doubt that works, even if they are comparable with Greek and Roman, left as much trace in culture of Latin America, and European ones.

I doubt about yours knowledge about Latin America very much. You don't know how much influence from the past we have. This is your problem; not ours, anyways.

Hm, United States are European based culturally. (or European centric)

They are the McDonald's culture. They don't love Europe as much as you may believe. They control Europe, so who cares.

Since unlike you, I know Ancient Greek, and had Greek philosophy. Red most of Plato's work I will be bold to presume.

Again. You don't read my posts. I know Ancient Greek culture. The problem is that you have no idea about ours culture. So you don't have the right to give an opinion on it.

With all due respect, Incas did not even posses script, and Mayan and Aztec sculptures are not even close to Greek or Roman. Nor we could speak about highly developed philosophy, theories of politics and so on.

Incas lacked writing, for sure, but we have the full history of the Incas from the beginning of the Empire, thanks to chronicles written in the early Conquest. Incas had memory keepers. That's why we know Pachacutec built Machu Picchu. We also have the history of Aztecs that way, and Mayan history is currently been deciphered and we have lot of details already.

You can't compare Mayan art with Greek. It is stupid to compare art of different civilizations and to say, for example, that Italian Renascence art is superior to Medieval Japanese!

And I just said it once, and I am not going to repeat it, that Native American Civilizations compare well with early Eurasian Civilizations, like Egypt, Sumer, Crete, and early India and China. Sure, it can't compare with Classic Greece, and nobody pretends it.

But saying that Europe brought "civilization" to the Americas is simply false.

[Twistedmind]

I doubt about yours knowledge about Latin America very much.

This is SPanish subsection acctually.

You don't know how much influence from the past we have. This is your problem; not ours, anyways.

You honestly want me to believe Incan or Aztec influence in your everday life is stronger than Spanish.

They are the McDonald's culture. They don't love Europe as much as you may believe. They control Europe, so who cares.

I hate them much more than you will ever. And have absolutley no respect for their culture.

Again. You don't read my posts. I know Ancient Greek culture. The problem is that you have no idea about ours culture. So you don't have the right to give an opinion on it.

You brought question of Ancient Greek culture here. And in that field, I am expert, in cathegories of this forum at least.

Incas lacked writing, for sure, but we have the full history of the Incas from the beginning of the Empire, thanks to chronicles written in the early Conquest. Incas had memory keepers. That's why we know Pachacutec built Machu Picchu. We also have the history of Aztecs that way, and Mayan history is currently been deciphered and we have lot of details already.
You can't compare Mayan art with Greek. It is stupid to compare art of different civilizations and to say, for example, that Italian Renascence art is superior to Medieval Japanese!

You brought that. My point was, in your everyday life, you are more influenced by Greeks and Romans than Inkas and Mayas.

And I just said it once, and I am not going to repeat it, that Native American Civilizations compare well with early Eurasian Civilizations, like Egypt, Sumer, Crete, and early India and China. Sure, it can't compare with Classic Greece, and nobody pretends it.

You acctually started comparing them with Romans. Who might not be verry original, but at least they transplanted Greek culture.

But saying that Europe brought "civilization" to the Americas is simply false.

I said they spread it. Dont imply something I did not said.

[pinguino]

This is SPanish subsection acctually.

But you are talking about Latin America, and not Spain.

You honestly want me to believe Incan or Aztec influence in your everday life is stronger than Spanish.

The problem is that you don't know Latin America. In the upper Andes the Inca civilization is very much alive, and influences all the region. Even in places like Chile, we have a strong Amerindian influences, mainly in foods, cooking, vocabulary and textiles.

Besides, I bet the influence of the United States is several orders of magnitude stronger than Spanish. Even the Catholic church is in decadence.

I hate them much more than you will ever. And have absolutley no respect for their culture.

Americans have no respect for Europe whatsoever. And they control the world. Sorry man, in the New World, Europe culture is a hobby for snobs. Something like to study Latin at school to show culture...

You brought question of Ancient Greek culture here. And in that field, I am expert, in cathegories of this forum at least.

I already told you I admire ancient Greek culture. In the real world, though, Greek influence is felt mainly in mathematics and science. In the secular world, its influence is very small. Even classics like the Iliad are out of fashion these days.

You brought that. My point was, in your everyday life, you are more influenced by Greeks and Romans than Inkas and Mayas.

A lot more from Americans. However, don't downplay our Incas influence. Sure, we aren't influenced from Mayans because they are as far from here than Europe from India. But the Inca empire appears everywhere in our culture, from foods to words, and to the attitude to our land: the Pachamama.

You acctually started comparing them with Romans. Who might not be verry original, but at least they transplanted Greek culture.

What I said is that Incas build the largest empire in the Americas, comparable in size with the Roman.

[Twistedmind]

But you are talking about Latin America, and not Spain.

Yes, and Spanish spread civilisation.

The problem is that you don't know Latin America. In the upper Andes the Inca civilization is very much alive, and influences all the region. Even in places like Chile, we have a strong Amerindian influences, mainly in foods, cooking, vocabulary and textiles.

Even in religious sincretism. I know about them going to Roman Catholic sanctuaries to pray to Ancient gods. What I said, I and I still dont think I am wrong. Spanish influence is stronger, especialy among educated people.

Besides, I bet the influence of the United States is several orders of magnitude stronger than Spanish. Even the Catholic church is in decadence.

I also bet that American influence is much more visible in politics and pop culture than in acctual culture.

Americans have no respect for Europe whatsoever. And they control the world. Sorry man, in the New World, Europe culture is a hobby for snobs. Something like to study Latin at school to show culture...

And in Europe Europe is just place where we live. We learn Latin in schools (and Anceint Greek) because we need it, not for snobish puroposes.

I already told you I admire ancient Greek culture. In the real world, though, Greek influence is felt mainly in mathematics and science. In the secular world, its influence is very small. Even classics like the Iliad are out of fashion these days.

Acctually, read Plato's and Aristotle's political works. They are still improtnant today. Also Greeks invented philosophy, logic and free thinking.

A lot more from Americans. However, don't downplay our Incas influence. Sure, we aren't influenced from Mayans because they are as far from here than Europe from India. But the Inca empire appears everywhere in our culture, from foods to words, and to the attitude to our land: the Pachamama.

I did not said it does not.

[pinguino]

Yes, and Spanish spread civilisation.

Spanish didn't. Civilization existed here before them. I have lost a lot of time explaining why not. If you aren't able to understand my point. It doesn't make sense to continue.

[Twistedmind]

Spanish didn't. Civilization existed here before them. I have lost a lot of time explaining why not. If you aren't able to understand my point. It doesn't make sense to continue.

Let me repeat my acctual claim. There were three well known civilisations in both Americas (I will not count other less known, but yes I am aware of them). But you cant say civilisation was spread all over continent(s).

[pinguino]

Acctually, read Plato's and Aristotle's political works.

I have read Plato´s fascist manual: The Republic. Plato was not only a Spartan promoter and proto-nazi. He was also a pedophile. That kind of crap do you want I venerate? Aristotle, although smarter than Plato, and an early scientist, was an elitist. Besides he was completely wrong in Physics and stopped human development for a thousand years with his damn physics.

No thanks. When I think in Greek intelligence, I am thinking in Greek mathematicians and engineers, like Archimedes and Hero of Alexandria. Not on these pathetic phylosophers.

[pinguino]

Let me repeat my acctual claim. There were three well known civilisations in both Americas (I will not count other less known, but yes I am aware of them). But you cant say civilisation was spread all over continent(s).

Sure. But do you know Spaniards didn't conquest all the continent? They didn't even conquest the actual territory of Latin America! Only half of it

[Twistedmind]

Sure. But do you know Spaniards didn't conquest all the continent? They didn't even conquest the actual territory of Latin America! Only half of it

Ok, I will add Portugese. Are you statisfied? Than you are left with parts of Chile
and Argentina. But I said Columbus' discovery did caused, as consequence spread of civilisation. Anyway, I am off with historical discussion.