Spaniards; Jewish self-haters?

[B01AB20]

To be fair they were being mistreated by the Visigoths and even most locals who weren't Jewish didn't particularly mind the change in power considering how incompetent and disorderly Visgothic rule was at the time. There is a reason why the Moors basically walked right in with little difficulty and swept over so quickly. There was very little resistance.

only the hapsburgs were worse than the visigoths ruling spain; germanics might be good, efficient and organized in germanic lands, but here they were total shit and they played against the natural interests of spain.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

only the hapsburgs were worse than the visigoths ruling spain; germanics might be good, efficient and organized in germanic lands, but here they were total shit and they played against the natural interests of spain.

The only good modern era king Spain had was Carlos III of the Bourbon family. His father is a distant second.

EDIT: Second would be the Ferdinand and Isabella tag team, actually. They came into the start of the modern era.

[Damião de Góis]

Actually, there are a few Jewish enclaves in Iberia still today, like the Belmonte Jews who have been here for 600 years. But genetically, they are still jews, and iberians are still iberians after those 600 years. This was posted before by curupira on another thread about the subject:

The Belmonte Jews:

The marranos that have been living in Belmonte are sometimes referred to as the "Belmonte Jews." They are a community that has survived in secrecy for hundreds of years by maintaining a tradition of endogamy and by hiding all the external signs of their faith.

The community in the municipality of Belmonte, Cova da Beira subregion, Portugal, goes back to the 12th century and they were only discovered in 1917 by a Polish Jewish mining engineer named Samuel Schwarz. Some of them returned to Judaism in the 1970s, and opened a synagogue, Bet Eliahu, in 1996.[1] In 2003, the Belmonte Project was founded under the auspices of the American Sephardi Federation, in order to raise funds to acquire Judaic educational material and services for the community[2] (which now numbers 300).[3] A Jewish Museum of Belmonte] (Museu Judaico de Belmonte) [4] opened on 17 April 2005.

Their Sephardic tradition of Crypto-Judaism is considered unique.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belmonte_Jews

Amazingly, a "New Christian" sample from Belmonte, Northern Portugal, plotted closer to other Jewish populations than to Iberians. They practiced so much endogamy that according to a Behar study a single haplotype would account for 93% of their maternal lineages (one also found among Sephardic diaspora communities from the former Ottoman Empire):

A map from an autusomal Behar DNA study on Jews (SJ - Sephardic Jews; AJ - Ashkenazi Jews; SbJ - Belmonte Jews; MJ - Moroccan Jews):

[Ibericus]

Go fuck yourself, delusional cuntwad.

Even if just 1% had jewish ancestry a lot more will have some now, you stupid fuck.

But I know those figures are complete bullshit anyway, and assumes that nobody with jewish ancestry has ever come to spain since then, and nobody ever mixed with the ones who stayed. If all those lies were true then that might be the case, too bad they aren't.

There have been countries with far bigger jewish populations (in proportion), like Netherlands, Poland or Lithuania, and nobodoy goes around saying they are jews. So go fuck yourself too, dumbass.

[Prisoner Of Ice]

European aboriginal means predominantly blue eyes. The "early european farmer" type that came in the neolithic had brown eyes, and jews are 96% EEF. Farming probably came out of sumeria and levant to europe in the first place (or at least that was the mainland route). So however you slice it these are all the same people. The muslim invasion complicates matters but genetically all this mediterranean element is the same stuff in the first place.

Portugal took in 10% of their population in jews at one point. Before then spain and portugal were pretty much a small group of nobility and a bunch of peasants. The jews brought in the first thing like a middle class, and even as the peasants were shrinking thew jews grew quickly. Not all of them stayed as jews, either, many integrated.

The population of rome as 1.5 million when it fell and that was just one city. By 14th century it was down to 17k people. Frank and other jokers will say that the people just died off, reality is they went to greece and spain. That's a lot of why all of southern europe is related to each other, greeks and jews who mixed together and spread across the mediterranean. And this was even before reconquista after which "officially" lots of jews were accepted into iberia.

Simply put there is just no way in fuck there are just 18 million jews on earth, which is the official figure as of a few years ago. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a stupid, delusional fuck for brains. Even before muslims came there were more than 1% jews in iberia.

[Empecinado]

Go fuck yourself, delusional cuntwad.

Even if just 1% had jewish ancestry a lot more will have some now, you stupid fuck.

But I know those figures are complete bullshit anyway, and assumes that nobody with jewish ancestry has ever come to spain since then, and nobody ever mixed with the ones who stayed. If all those lies were true then that might be the case, too bad they aren't.

The Jewish population in Spain was 150.000 up to 200.000, that's only a 1-2% of total population. That's a fact, so I find ridiculous how you all want to present my country as a heavily Jewish admixed one, it's a clear bias against us because I have never seen you accusing of having Jewish admixture to the people of countries which had a far higher numbers of Jews. This only emerges when it comes to Spanish people.

[Smeagol]

Most of them have Sephardi ancestry.

Torquemada did.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

There have been countries with far bigger jewish populations (in proportion), like Netherlands, Poland or Lithuania, and nobodoy goes around saying they are jews. So go fuck yourself too, dumbass.

Except that Spain had a large number of force conversions. Those other nations didn't. But large is relative. The Jewish population was small to begin with and very much an urban population (more likely to die from diseases). Although people who are well off can always pick up and leave for a time when epidemics are rampant and its known that those who converted were typically the better off among Jews.

[Empecinado]

Except that Spain had a large number of force conversions. Those other nations didn't. But large is relative. The Jewish population was small to begin with and very much an urban population (more like to die from diseases). Although people who are well off can always pick up and leave for a time when epidemics are rampant and its known that those who converted were typically the better off among Jews.

But many of these forced converts fled to America (which is supported by genetics, btw) and those other nations had many voluntary conversions especially at 19th century.

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

European aboriginal means predominantly blue eyes. The "early european farmer" type that came in the neolithic had brown eyes, and jews are 96% EEF. Farming probably came out of sumeria and levant to europe in the first place (or at least that was the mainland route). So however you slice it these are all the same people. The muslim invasion complicates matters but genetically all this mediterranean element is the same stuff in the first place.

Portugal took in 10% of their population in jews at one point. Before then spain and portugal were pretty much a small group of nobility and a bunch of peasants. The jews brought in the first thing like a middle class, and even as the peasants were shrinking thew jews grew quickly. Not all of them stayed as jews, either, many integrated.

The population of rome as 1.5 million when it fell and that was just one city. By 14th century it was down to 17k people. Frank and other jokers will say that the people just died off, reality is they went to greece and spain. That's a lot of why all of southern europe is related to each other, greeks and jews who mixed together and spread across the mediterranean. And this was even before reconquista after which "officially" lots of jews were accepted into iberia.

Simply put there is just no way in fuck there are just 18 million jews on earth, which is the official figure as of a few years ago. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a stupid, delusional fuck for brains.

Are you trying to do math? We both know how that goes, am I right?

What source do you have that all those people in Rome went to Greece and Spain? Ah, nothing except your imagination. How do the poor, who would make up the majority of the population, wander off to Spain and Greece? But not other other parts of Italy or France or North Africa? Places far closer. Why not move down the road? Hard questions for a brilliant mind.

Southern Europeans are related to each other by something that genetics has already proven... you may have heard of it.. .farming spreading from the Near East (go ahead and say Saudia Arabia, dumb ass, like you did last time in your stupid attempt to misrepresent what I say or maybe you're that stupid). You appear to be the only person who has no understanding of the Neolithic Revolution.

Even before muslims came there were more than 1% jews in iberia.

There were Jews there but no one except you knows how much of the population they made up in the 8th century, apparently. Are you mystically in touch with an ancient Iberian Jew who was a census taker?