Bukharian Jews (Uzbekistan Jews)

[Hungarian_master]

Quite interesting people.
They look Jewish/Assyrian and West Asian, but not Central Asian. This is due by the traditional endogamy marriages.

Maybe soon I make a thread about Lyuli people, who are the Gypsies of Central Asia.

[Mesoman]

You've gone from arguing no Levantine to arguing "more mesopotamian than levantine". Please tell me how Soviet Mizrachim ended up with more Mesopotamian ancestry than those who remained in Babylonia - I'm really interested to hear this.

Lmao dude. Why is it so impossible for you to believe that northern mesopotamian converts as a bunch migrated to different parts of west asia. One migrated to transcaucasia another one to bukhara, uzbekistan. And yes, i am saying that they are more mesopotamian and less levantine in case of iraqi jews and not "soviet" jews as you like to call them. Maybe you should read the posts more carefully before you write a dumb response.

[Mesoman]

It's amazing that you can see this for Western Jews, but not for Mizrachim.

Yeah i see that because western jews are literally lebanese and northern italian admixed. In mizrahi jews and again especially in caucasus and bukharan jews that ain't the case because the plot with the people who's ancestry is 1/4 levantine or less. But no let's forget about autusomal dna lmao.

[Mesoman]

It is also self explanatory that iraqi jews, iranian jews and kurdish jews plot closer to druze and lebanese muslims than azeri, georgian, bukharan and mountain jews do. But nah, let's forget about that.

[SUPREEEEEME]

Yeah i see that because western jews are literally lebanese and northern italian admixed.

Yeah, this is rubbish.

[Mesoman]

Yeah, this is rubbish.

If you are gonna say that my comment was rubbish then explain to me why it is rubbish and provide the evidence for your claims. If you can't do that then shush yourself.

[SUPREEEEEME]

If you are gonna say that my comment was rubbish then explain to me why it is rubbish and provide the evidence for your claims. If you can't do that then shush yourself.

The idea that Western Jews are half Levantine, half Northern Italian holds no water and makes no historical sense. I'd suggest you read this thread:
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....tine-admixture

And some models for Western Jewish groups - no Northern Italian needed. Northern Italian improves the fit in modern models due to them plotting closest to ancient mainland Greek/Balkan sources, not because Western Jews have modern Northern Italian ancestry:

Target: Romaniote_Jew
Distance: 0.8110% / 0.00810958
61.0 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
26.4 HRV_IA
7.0 Canary_Islands_Guanche
3.6 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
1.2 DEU_MA_Baiuvaric
0.8 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic


Target: Tunisian_Jew
Distance: 0.8808% / 0.00880769
59.0 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
20.8 Canary_Islands_Guanche
16.2 HRV_IA
4.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA


Target: Sephardic_Jew
Distance: 1.2139% / 0.01213877
49.4 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
31.6 HRV_IA
11.0 Canary_Islands_Guanche
8.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA


Target: Ashkenazi_Poland
Distance: 0.7560% / 0.00756040
45.0 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
29.4 HRV_IA
8.8 DEU_MA_Baiuvaric
6.0 Canary_Islands_Guanche
5.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
4.4 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
1.4 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic

Distance to: HRV_IA
0.02400696 Italian_Lombardy
0.02684022 Italian_Bergamo
0.03098048 Italian_Piedmont
0.03132283 Italian_Veneto
0.03232243 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03503135 Italian_Liguria
0.03523518 Swiss_Italian
0.03570296 French_Corsica
0.03623112 Italian_Tuscany
0.03842617 Greek_Thessaly
0.03893473 Italian_Northeast
0.04186317 Italian_Marche
0.04203788 Spanish_Mallorca
0.04216678 Spanish_Baleares
0.04240815 Spanish_Eivissa
0.04248741 Spanish_Menorca
0.04263746 French_Provence
0.04294519 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.04303196 Albanian
0.04368641 Italian_Umbria
0.04378507 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.04442382 Greek_Macedonia
0.04596885 Spanish_Girona
0.04608396 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.04665901 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha

[Mesoman]

The idea that Western Jews are half Levantine, half Northern Italian holds no water and makes no historical sense. I'd suggest you read this thread:
https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....tine-admixture

And some models for Western Jewish groups - no Northern Italian needed. Northern Italian improves the fit in modern models due to them plotting closest to ancient mainland Greek/Balkan sources, not because Western Jews have modern Northern Italian ancestry:

Target: Romaniote_Jew
Distance: 0.8110% / 0.00810958
61.0 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
26.4 HRV_IA
7.0 Canary_Islands_Guanche
3.6 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
1.2 DEU_MA_Baiuvaric
0.8 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic


Target: Tunisian_Jew
Distance: 0.8808% / 0.00880769
59.0 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
20.8 Canary_Islands_Guanche
16.2 HRV_IA
4.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA


Target: Sephardic_Jew
Distance: 1.2139% / 0.01213877
49.4 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
31.6 HRV_IA
11.0 Canary_Islands_Guanche
8.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA


Target: Ashkenazi_Poland
Distance: 0.7560% / 0.00756040
45.0 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
29.4 HRV_IA
8.8 DEU_MA_Baiuvaric
6.0 Canary_Islands_Guanche
5.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
4.4 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
1.4 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic

Distance to: HRV_IA
0.02400696 Italian_Lombardy
0.02684022 Italian_Bergamo
0.03098048 Italian_Piedmont
0.03132283 Italian_Veneto
0.03232243 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03503135 Italian_Liguria
0.03523518 Swiss_Italian
0.03570296 French_Corsica
0.03623112 Italian_Tuscany
0.03842617 Greek_Thessaly
0.03893473 Italian_Northeast
0.04186317 Italian_Marche
0.04203788 Spanish_Mallorca
0.04216678 Spanish_Baleares
0.04240815 Spanish_Eivissa
0.04248741 Spanish_Menorca
0.04263746 French_Provence
0.04294519 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.04303196 Albanian
0.04368641 Italian_Umbria
0.04378507 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.04442382 Greek_Macedonia
0.04596885 Spanish_Girona
0.04608396 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.04665901 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha

I don't give a crap about ashkenazi and sephardic jews but since it was brought up earlier I guess I gotta stick with it. According to the thread you recommended, the most likely explanation of ashkenazi origins is that before the second temple was destroyed in jerusalem, ancestors of the ashkenazi jews were already a mix of ancient Aegean people and levantine jews. Maybe the genetic compostion of aegean people was different thousands of years ago, but how would it explain where modern ashkenazi jews plot nowadays? What is the ancestral composition of southern italian populations that plot them closest to ashkenazi and sephardic jews? Also it aint me who says that ashkenazi jews might have a possible maternial lineage from northern italians. There are studies that say the very same thing. Take this one for example: https://journals.plos.org/plosgeneti...l.pgen.1006644

[SUPREEEEEME]

I don't give a crap about ashkenazi and sephardic jews but since it was brought up earlier I guess I gotta stick with it. According to the thread you recommended, the most likely explanation of ashkenazi origins is that before the second temple was destroyed in jerusalem, ancestors of the ashkenazi jews were already a mix of ancient Aegean people and levantine jews. Maybe the genetic compostion of aegean people was different thousands of years ago, but how would it explain where modern ashkenazi jews plot nowadays? What is the ancestral composition of southern italian populations that plot them closest to ashkenazi and sephardic jews? Also it aint me who says that ashkenazi jews might have a possible maternial lineage from northern italians. There are studies that say the very same thing. Take this one for example: https://journals.plos.org/plosgeneti...l.pgen.1006644

Our Levantine ancestors would have been largely Canaanite, with some Aegean ancestry. We can see this in the Beirut_IAIII samples I used:

Target: Levant_Beirut_IAIII
Distance: 1.3633% / 0.01363337
79.8 Levant_Sidon_MBA
20.2 GRC_Mycenaean

Ashkenazim plot closest to Southern Italians and Greek Islanders, in part, due to shared Aegean ancestry. There are differences, however, such a Southern Italians and Greek Islanders being more Anatolian:

Target: Sicilian_East
Distance: 0.9888% / 0.00988809
34.6 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
19.0 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
15.6 GRC_Helladic_MBA
15.4 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA
6.8 VK2020_NOR_North_IA
4.8 Canary_Islands_Guanche
3.8 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res

Target: Ashkenazi_Poland
Distance: 0.7560% / 0.00756040
45.0 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
29.4 HRV_IA
8.8 DEU_MA_Baiuvaric
6.0 Canary_Islands_Guanche
5.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
4.4 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
1.4 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic

If you have an example of a lineage that is from Northern Italy, I'm all ears.

[Mesoman]

Our Levantine ancestors would have been largely Canaanite, with some Aegean ancestry. We can see this in the Beirut_IAIII samples I used:

Target: Levant_Beirut_IAIII
Distance: 1.3633% / 0.01363337
79.8 Levant_Sidon_MBA
20.2 GRC_Mycenaean

Ashkenazim plot closest to Southern Italians and Greek Islanders, in part, due to shared Aegean ancestry. There are differences, however, such a Southern Italians and Greek Islanders being more Anatolian:

Target: Sicilian_East
Distance: 0.9888% / 0.00988809
34.6 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
19.0 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
15.6 GRC_Helladic_MBA
15.4 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA
6.8 VK2020_NOR_North_IA
4.8 Canary_Islands_Guanche
3.8 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res

Target: Ashkenazi_Poland
Distance: 0.7560% / 0.00756040
45.0 Levant_Beirut_IAIII
29.4 HRV_IA
8.8 DEU_MA_Baiuvaric
6.0 Canary_Islands_Guanche
5.0 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
4.4 Baltic_LTU_Late_Antiquity_low_res
1.4 CHN_Chuanyun_Historic

If you have an example of a lineage that is from Northern Italy, I'm all ears.

I don't have a strong evidence for that, however it is put out there as a theory where the southern european component comes from for ashkenazis. Maybe the anatolian component for sicilians come from the greeks who had settled in central anatolia. In any case only aegean mixture in ashkenazis would plot them in between greek islands such as cretans and Canaanites, most likely lebanese christians and cretans. I have seen on the map ashkenazis plot either in crete or west to that near malta or sicily. If you know from which part of Israel do you have ancestry? After all you are a pure canaanite and israelite probably.