Examples in the Old World where a more southern group is fairer than a more northern group

[Oliver109]

[QUOTE=Milkaner;7917331]

Norwegian schoolchildren being not far from Scottish schoolchildren in frequency of red hair overall and even overlapping to a degree is not entirely surprising. Norwegian schoolchildren are much blonder than Scottish schoolchildren and rufosity is more likely to be expressed with a predisposition to lighter hair pigmentation. Even in Northwestern Germany like Cloppenburg, Lower Saxony red-blonds are more common in schoolchildren than deeper reds contrary to much of the British Isles. In Scandinavian children red-blonds are even more common due to greater presence of RHC variants and even lighter pigmentation than Northern Germany. In Hordaland, West Norway Bryn found among recruits 2.8% clear red Fischer #1-3 same as what Hannesson found in Icelandic recruits. This doesn’t include red-blond in which case rufosity would be much higher. With a separate investigation in very blond Aust-Agder/Telemark (data shown on Lundman’s light hair map) 7.5% of schoolchildren were found red-haired including red-blond and 5.2% of adults retained this. Visible rufosity not subdued by darker pigmentation may very well have some legitimate overlap between Norwegians and Scots at least as children, although more intense red shades are undoubtedly more common in Scots.

Red hair is more northwestern in its distribution, I saw quite a lot in Flanders Belgium but very little in Southern France, very blonde hair is almost wholly Scandinavian in nature with smaller amounts elsewhere, in the UK the groups with the blondest hair tend to be in more affluent parts of southern England contrary to stereotypes.

[Tooting Carmen]

[QUOTE=Oliver109;7917351]

Red hair is more northwestern in its distribution, I saw quite a lot in Flanders Belgium but very little in Southern France, very blonde hair is almost wholly Scandinavian in nature with smaller amounts elsewhere, in the UK the groups with the blondest hair tend to be in more affluent parts of southern England contrary to stereotypes.

Really? I thought blondism in England was more of an East-West cline, regardless of class.

[Oliver109]

[QUOTE=Tooting Carmen;7917357]

Really? I thought blondism in England was more of an East-West cline, regardless of class.

Generally yes though i have always found upper middle class and above to have more anglo saxon types etc

[Tooting Carmen]

Generally yes though i have always found upper middle class and above to have more anglo saxon types etc

Up to a point, but remember there are also a good number of crypto-Jews and Jewish-admixed people among the upper-classes. For example, Hugo Taylor and Ollie Locke from Made In Chelsea don't even resemble the darkest Britons.

[Oliver109]

Up to a point, but remember there are also a good number of crypto-Jews and Jewish-admixed people among the upper-classes. For example, Hugo Taylor and Ollie Locke from Made In Chelsea don't even resemble the darkest Britons.

That's right though Jewish influence in Britain at least doesn't seem to have a big impact on hair colour, probably different in France perhaps?

[Melkiirs]

[QUOTE=Oliver109;7917351]

Red hair is more northwestern in its distribution, I saw quite a lot in Flanders Belgium but very little in Southern France, very blonde hair is almost wholly Scandinavian in nature with smaller amounts elsewhere, in the UK the groups with the blondest hair tend to be in more affluent parts of southern England contrary to stereotypes.

The point is there is striking or distinctive red hair and red-blond hair which is often associated with occasional penetration in heterozygotes. If someone has just one copy of R160W which is less penetrant (also more concentrated in typical Germanic peoples than Insular Celts) and is also predisposed to be very fair haired their chances of showing rufosity will be greater. If you have two copies of the most penetrant variant R151C you will likely have very red hair even if you predisposed to darker hair. This is quite clear based on HIrisPlex predictions.

When we start talking about reddish-blond hair especially in children who are more likely to present with recessive traits like rufosity there is definitely significant overlap between Scandinavians and the British Isles.

[Abaddon]

Do saamis count as example? they're darker than many northern europeans, despite living in the far north scandinavia.

[Tooting Carmen]

Do saamis count as example? they're darker than many northern europeans, despite living in the far north scandinavia.

I suppose so.

[Septentrion]

Do saamis count as example? they're darker than many northern europeans, despite living in the far north scandinavia.

Saamis live in Arctic Europe, north of all the other Northern Europeans with whom they intermixed. The Ancient Saamis were a predominantly brunet ( dark-hair+dark-eyed+swarthy-skinned) people. Intermixture with Northern and Eastern Euros (Germanic, Finnic, Slavic, Uralic) increased the ratio of blond or light hair and light pigmentation as a whole, but made them physically less hardy and wimpish. The Ancient dark Saami were a very hardy race.

[Septentrion]

That's right though Jewish influence in Britain at least doesn't seem to have a big impact on hair colour, probably different in France perhaps?

Of course not! Jews who moved to England were already “whitened” by intermixture with Iberian, Latin, Germanic, Celtic, Slavic blood. They were also a very small minority.