What's Your Y-DNA Haplogroup?

[Dick]

https://i.imgur.com/GrF9K6N.png
https://i.imgur.com/R7Vcqas.png
https://i.imgur.com/1lFhzpw.png

[Gannicus]

You are interested in this just for fun and because you had the luck to have a not so common haplogroup if we also take your ancestry in the equation, and it’s fine.

Yes, I do study this stuff for fun. And yes, haplogroups are important and indicate historical migration patterns. As you correctly pointed out they are not as important as autosomal DNA, but also not as insignificant as you are implying. There's really nothing trivial about it. It's my father's line and his and so on. Don't glaze over that point. If they weren't important, population geneticists wouldn't bother tracking the uniparental markers in the first place.

[Snorlax]

Yes, I do study this stuff for fun. And yes, haplogroups are important and indicate historical migration patterns. As you correctly pointed out they are not as important as autosomal DNA, but also not as insignificant as you are implying. There's really nothing trivial about it. It's my father's line and his and so on. Don't glaze over that point. If they weren't important, population geneticists wouldn't bother tracking the uniparental markers in the first place.

Science use this markers because it’s cheaper and quicker than doing a complete sequencing of autosomal DNA in multiple individuals. Imagine a case where you take 2 individuals DNA and ignore the autosomal part but take as a reference their YDNA, and their results goes R1b and E1b. Who’s the white and who’s the jamaican?

[Gannicus]

Science use this markers because it’s cheaper and quicker than doing a complete sequencing of autosomal DNA in multiple individuals. Imagine a case where you take 2 individuals DNA and ignore the autosomal part but take as a reference their YDNA, and their results goes R1b and E1b. Who’s the white and who’s the jamaican?

No. That's not it at all. Uniparental markers are used in conjunction with autosomal DNA. As I mentioned before it reveals migration patterns. R1b is strongly associated with the Western Steppe Herders. Scholars have the complete picture when they have the autosomal, uniparental markers, and the archaeological evidence.

To add to the migration patterns, it has been used as evidence to show West Eurasian back migration to Africa. Sirak et al 2021 studied some medieval Christian era Nubian remains in Kulubnarti. Some of the males were found to be J2. QpAdm models revealed around 10-25% West Eurasian admixture in some of these Nubian individuals. This is a case where haplogroups helped signal population movement.

If I were a population geneticist, I wouldn't be studying the Jamaican and European males' Y-haplogroups alone. The uniparental markers would be given important consideration as part of the genetic puzzle, not dismissed. If you take the Jamaican male's DNA and study it, it will likely reflect the colonial history of the Island. The haplogroups are an important part in uncovering their ancestry. Your analogy actually adds to my point. If the Jamaican male was R1b, then it would add weight to the findings of him having some European admixture. Potentially British derived, given the fact that Jamaica was a colonial possession of Great Britain. And if the white male only took a Y-haplogroup test and was E1b, then it would reveal deep connections to North Africa and the Near East considering Europe doesn't exist in a vacuum. Mediterranean interactions during the bronze age and later Hellenistic and Roman periods really facilitated a lot of spit swapping so to speak.

To reiterate, it cannot be used alone in understanding one's ancestry. However, it can serve as a valuable piece of evidence. And it's critical to point out what some people miss is that it is a tangible (you can shake your father's hand). If your father was R1b, and if you had a time machine you could go back and shake your great, great, great, etc grandfather's hand that could have been an ancient Corded Ware or Yamnaya male.

I agree with you that it takes a back seat to autosomal DNA, however, it should not be dismissed as simply winning the lottery or buying into horoscopes and identifying as a Leo. And if we are talking about being lucky, I'd rather be R1b and have won the mega million lottery, sipping a Margarita on a beach in Hawaii typing this post on my phone.


Edit: While I do study this stuff for fun, I do take it seriously. On occasion I like to be informal with my posts because that is the flavor of this forum. Adding a bit of levity never hurts.

[Snorlax]

No. That's not it at all. Uniparental markers are used in conjunction with autosomal DNA. As I mentioned before it reveals migration patterns. R1b is strongly associated with the Western Steppe Herders. Scholars have the complete picture when they have the autosomal, uniparental markers, and the archaeological evidence.

To add to the migration patterns, it has been used as evidence to show West Eurasian back migration to Africa. Sirak et al 2021 studied some medieval Christian era Nubian remains in Kulubnarti. Some of the males were found to be J2. QpAdm models revealed around 10-25% West Eurasian admixture in some of these Nubian individuals. This is a case where haplogroups helped signal population movement.

If I were a population geneticist, I wouldn't be studying the Jamaican and European males' Y-haplogroups alone. The uniparental markers would be given important consideration as part of the genetic puzzle, not dismissed. If you take the Jamaican male's DNA and study it, it will likely reflect the colonial history of the Island. The haplogroups are an important part in uncovering their ancestry. Your analogy actually adds to my point. If the Jamaican male was R1b, then it would add weight to the findings of him having some European admixture. Potentially British derived, given the fact that Jamaica was a colonial possession of Great Britain. And if the white male only took a Y-haplogroup test and was E1b, then it would reveal deep connections to North Africa and the Near East considering Europe doesn't exist in a vacuum. Mediterranean interactions during the bronze age and later Hellenistic and Roman periods really facilitated a lot of spit swapping so to speak.

To reiterate, it cannot be used alone in understanding one's ancestry. However, it can serve as a valuable piece of evidence. And it's critical to point out what some people miss is that it is a tangible (you can shake your father's hand). If your father was R1b, and if you had a time machine you could go back and shake your great, great, great, etc grandfather's hand that could have been an ancient Corded Ware or Yamnaya male.

I agree with you that it takes a back seat to autosomal DNA, however, it should not be dismissed as simply winning the lottery or buying into horoscopes and identifying as a Leo. And if we are talking about being lucky, I'd rather be R1b and have won the mega million lottery, sipping a Margarita on a beach in Hawaii typing this post on my phone.

What you mention about whether the Jamaican had been E1b, his ancestor could have been North African or Middle Eastern, reinforces my point further, because I was referring to the fact that he could have been directly SSA, which is where there are the most E1b. There is also some R1b sub-clade originating in Europe (probably with the EEF or WHG) that expanded throughout Africa, which reinforces my point further. That is to say, haplogroups are useful for many things and at the same time for nothing.

[Gannicus]

What you mention about whether the Jamaican had been E1b, his ancestor could have been North African or Middle Eastern, reinforces my point further, because I was referring to the fact that he could have been directly SSA, which is where there are the most E1b. There is also some R1b sub-clade originating in Europe (probably with the EEF or WHG) that expanded throughout Africa, which reinforces my point further. That is to say, haplogroups are useful for many things and at the same time for nothing.

I get the sense you didn’t fully read my post or maybe just skimmed parts of it. That’s fine. Online discussions often settle into fixed positions anyway. I hold my position for valid reasons because of how these markers are used in population genetics. And they are not overlooked.

I'll add that I take the study of history and genetics seriously. It's a deep passion of mine. And I sometimes I like to be more informal to add levity to the forum and to make things more fun. It has controversial characters. Some serious discussion takes place here, but the overall flavor of the forum is laid back.

[Snorlax]

I get the sense you didn’t fully read my post or maybe just skimmed parts of it. That’s fine. Online discussions often settle into fixed positions anyway. I hold my position for valid reasons because of how these markers are used in population genetics. And they are not overlooked.

I'll add that I take the study of history and genetics seriously. It's a deep passion of mine. And I sometimes I like to be more informal to add levity to the forum and to make things more fun. It has controversial characters. Some serious discussion takes place here, but the overall flavor of the forum is laid back.

I read your previous post in full; don't worry about that. What I want you to understand is that I have a firm position on the issue of haplogroups, regardless of the example I give you and how you interpret it. You shouldn't take my position too seriously, either.

[Gannicus]

I read your previous post in full; don't worry about that. What I want you to understand is that I have a firm position on the issue of haplogroups, regardless of the example I give you and how you interpret it. You shouldn't take my position too seriously, either.

I’m going to keep this respectful, but I have to ask, if your position isn’t meant to be taken seriously, then why take the time to write and post it at all? Especially in a thread where people are genuinely sharing personal information and trying to have a meaningful discussion.

[AntonVolgograd]

My haplogroup is I1 Z73. Russian.

[Snorlax]

I’m going to keep this respectful, but I have to ask, if your position isn’t meant to be taken seriously, then why take the time to write and post it at all? Especially in a thread where people are genuinely sharing personal information and trying to have a meaningful discussion.

I was just giving my opinion, but you are right.