Macedonian Gedmatch kits - 28

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

_	North_Atlantic	Baltic	West_Med	West_Asian	East_Med	Red_Sea	South_Asian	East_Asian	Siberian	Amerindian	Oceanian	Northeast_Afr	Sub_Saharan
central macedonia:
Macedonia:Macedonia_674	24.2	19.33	15.86	12.65	24.9	2.49	0	0	0.57	0	0	0	0
Macedonia:Macedonia_675	21.3	17.95	18.01	11.54	24.1	4.76	0.97	0	0.66	0	0.29	0.42	0
Macedonia:Macedonia_676	17.96	22.15	20.72	12.07	23.45	1.37	0.63	0.11	0	0.93	0.61	0	0
Macedonia:Macedonia_677	17.15	17.54	18.07	19.27	21.34	5.63	0.01	0	0.47	0.34	0	0	0.17
Macedonia:Macedonia_678	19.82	16.23	23.6	13.6	22.95	2.3	0	1.02	0.01	0.47	0	0	0
Macedonia:Macedonia_679	18.29	20.68	22.24	8.91	25.57	1.7	2.17	0.25	0	0.19	0	0	0
Macedonia:Macedonia_680	19.25	20.7	19.52	14.19	20.77	3.15	0.95	0	1.14	0	0.27	0.05	0
Macedonia:Macedonia_681	18.72	16.94	20.1	14.1	25.51	2.63	0	0.78	0.03	0	0.95	0.16	0.07
Macedonia:Macedonia_682	25.24	16.63	21.26	11.01	21.21	1.82	0.65	0.65	0.34	0.66	0.53	0	0
Macedonia:Macedonia_683	12.13	20.44	25.88	14.18	24.24	0.69	1.1	0.45	0.5	0.39	0	0	0
Macedonia:Macedonia_684	15.67	17.13	21.8	15.22	26	1.66	0.1	0	2.41	0.01	0	0	0
Macedonia:Macedonia_685	13.94	22.14	20.09	10.32	27.52	4.06	0	0	0	1.05	0.01	0.87	0
Macedonia:Macedonia_686	18.56	18.48	21.36	11.43	25.25	3.45	0	0	0.57	0.3	0.6	0	0
Macedonia:Macedonia_687	17.81	17.62	20.84	15.37	22.03	2.89	2.72	0	0	0.01	0.7	0	0
Macedonia:Macedonia_688	13.89	18.85	17.98	18.62	23.46	2.87	0.39	0.37	2.53	0	0.82	0.22	0
Macedonia:Macedonia_689	23.06	18.39	23.41	7.68	22.98	1.41	2.72	0.32	0	0.02	0	0	0
Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP10	13.51	19.28	19.67	13.99	27.03	3.43	0.07	0.98	0	1	0.36	0.69	0
Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP11	23.72	17.86	18.13	9.96	26.52	1.26	1.44	0	0	0	0.38	0.65	0
Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP12	12.2	21.66	19.66	17	22.03	4.31	0	0	0.63	1.71	0.68	0.12	0
Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP13	21.9	12.64	22.66	16.86	21.24	2.8	0	0.12	0	0.67	0.57	0.3	0.22
Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP14	24.31	13	20.42	7.5	30.81	1.76	0.15	0	0	1.17	0.24	0.54	0.1
Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP15	22.58	15.87	20.71	15.34	23.09	0	0	0.77	0	0.88	0	0	0.75
Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP16	15.71	17.15	21.24	12.67	26.7	4.48	0	0	0.94	0	0	0	1.07
Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP17	19.71	21.26	17.97	10.93	25.79	2.37	0	0	0	0.78	0	0.41	0.75
Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP18	18.38	14.96	23.45	9.41	25.97	4.68	2.48	0	0	0.66	0	0	0
Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP3	16.13	20.48	23.08	9.83	25.43	2.81	0	0	0.87	0.76	0.61	0	0
Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP4	18.22	15.16	21.37	11.72	27.48	4.48	0	0.98	0.43	0.16	0	0	0
Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP5	19.45	16.33	22.41	10.69	26.32	1.41	1.86	1.2	0	0.34	0	0	0
Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP8	21.47	19.54	19.5	14.85	21.52	1.96	0	0	0.06	0.45	0.23	0	0.42
Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP9	18.1	19.49	24.06	12.35	22.34	2.17	0	1.48	0	0	0	0	0
Thessaloniki_Central_Macedonia	19.63	20.95	20.74	11.76	24.44	0.96	0.16	0.27	0.38	0.71	0	0	0
Thessaloniki_Central_Macedonia	17.15	20.77	21.98	13.92	23.97	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
Serres_Central_Macedonia	20.66	15.96	21.9	13.11	22.34	4.13	0	0.41	0.19	0	0.06	1.25	0
Greek_Central_Macedonia_avg	18.78	18.29	20.90	12.79	24.37	2.60	0.56	0.31	0.39	0.41	0.24	0.17	0.11
west macedonia:
Florina_West_Macedonia	25.5	9.92	22.49	13.2	22.79	3.73	0	0.28	0	1.08	0	1.02	0
Florina_West_Macedonia	23	13.61	20.68	12.42	26.04	3.15	0	0	0.2	0.82	0.07	0	0
Florina_West_Macedonia	18.87	14.78	18.68	13.71	27.49	4.25	0.41	0.59	0.88	0	0	0.32	0
Florina_West_Macedonia	14.9	19.48	20.08	15.2	24.66	5.34	0	0.36	0	0	0	0	0
Florina_West_Macedonia	22.82	18.2	18.37	13.76	23.52	1.53	0	0.49	1.28	0	0	0	0
Ptolemaida_West_Macedonia	18.28	17.58	22.25	14.59	22.25	2.85	0.44	0	0.2	1.01	0.56	0	0
Greek_West_Macedonia_avg	20.56	15.60	20.43	13.81	24.46	3.48	0.14	0.29	0.43	0.49	0.11	0.22	0
macedonia outliers:
GreeceMaced2	19.34	24.91	17.65	13.91	20.42	1.85	0	0.01	1.68	0.03	0	0.01	0.19
GreeceMaced3	21.57	19.62	17.77	14.14	22.53	2.52	0.13	0.28	1.25	0.01	0.19	0	0
GreeceMaced4	16.45	24.84	19.74	10.52	25.15	1.99	1.1	0.08	0.01	0	0.13	0	0
GreeceMaced8	20.94	22.28	20.07	12.01	20.41	0.57	1.03	0.97	0.93	0.03	0.74	0	0.01
Serres	25.06	27.81	15.22	10.06	16.64	2.76	0	0	1.73	0.05	0.07	0.6	0
average	20.672	23.892	18.09	12.128	21.03	1.938	0.452	0.268	1.12	0.024	0.226	0.122	0.04
East Macedonia and Thrace:
GreeceNE11	19.1	20.59	19.02	13.38	25.3	0.88	0.32	0	0.58	0.3	0.53	0	0
GreeceNE126	19.33	14.21	23.63	15.95	21.86	3.08	0.54	0	0	1.05	0.15	0	0.19
GreeceNE144	23.12	13.53	22.78	13.74	21.81	3.33	0.08	0	1.02	0	0	0	0.55
GreeceNE162	25.23	14.23	20.12	11.26	24.43	3.29	0.65	0.47	0.07	0.22	0	0	0
GreeceNE209	13.74	15.53	25.15	12.63	26.08	4.71	0	0.95	0.28	0.86	0.06	0	0
GreeceNE231	20.28	10.9	20.92	17.16	25.64	4.18	0	0	0	0.3	0.39	0	0.24
GreeceNE252	19.01	12.45	19.64	16.41	26.24	4.46	0	0.68	0.48	0.11	0.52	0	0
GreeceNE284	22.14	13.82	20.1	14.35	25.97	3.02	0	0	0.19	0.42	0	0	0
GreeceNE34	23.2	21.99	17.64	8.6	21.71	5.18	0	0	0	1.16	0	0.51	0
GreeceNE59	23.54	17.61	16.42	11.35	22.91	5.24	1.04	0	0.73	0.45	0.72	0	0
GreeceNE8	20.43	22.56	19.05	11.25	21.76	3.55	0	0	0	1.07	0	0	0.31
East_Rumelia_650	20.56	16.52	21.6	13.04	22.89	4.2	0	0	0.57	0.22	0.39	0	0.01
East_Rumelia_653	17.84	14.43	18.86	16.2	27.79	3.48	0.04	0	0	1.37	0	0	0
East_Rumelia_651	15.29	19.6	20.91	16.84	22.89	3.28	0.03	0	0.79	0	0.37	0	0
East_Rumelia_642	24.43	16.27	17.56	13.25	23.08	3.08	1.92	0	0.01	0.38	0	0	0
East_Rumelia_646	19.34	13.74	17.62	17.82	25.37	2.79	1.92	0.04	0.7	0.24	0.41	0	0
East_Rumelia_652	15.81	11.41	18.26	17.16	32.14	2.59	0	0.16	0.95	0.52	0	0	1
East_Rumelia_647	21.08	22.7	20.07	15.47	16.99	2.31	0.54	0.02	0.75	0	0	0.05	0
East_Rumelia_643	15.84	16.99	17.21	19.83	26.62	2.05	0.23	0	0.08	0	1.16	0	0
East_Rumelia_644	14.78	25.52	16.33	11.82	27.11	1.92	0	0	2.11	0	0	0.01	0.39
East_Rumelia_645	20.59	22.7	18.67	11.77	23.06	1.9	0	0	0.12	0	1.19	0	0
East_Rumelia_649	21.36	17.76	18.77	10.4	27.1	1.55	1.87	0	0.11	0.48	0	0	0.6
East_Rumelia_648	20.35	21.58	21.26	15.82	17.05	0.83	0.13	1.93	0	0.69	0	0	0.36
Greek_Eastern-Thrace	16.34	17.89	20.2	13.03	27.42	3.63	0	0	1.02	0.31	0.13	0	0
Greek_Macedonia_Thrace	15.23	16.22	18.36	17.97	26.41	3.56	0.54	0.36	0.58	0	0.53	0.15	0.03
Greek_Western-Thrace	21.88	13.08	22.91	12.65	25.86	1.9	0	1.34	0	0.38	0	0	0
Greek_Istanbul	18.08	15.35	16.12	19.69	26.36	2.59	0	0	0.53	0.42	0.73	0.13	0
Greek_Eastern-Macedonia	20.66	15.94	21.89	13.13	22.35	4.13	0	0.41	0.19	0	0.06	1.25	0
Greek_Northern-Thrace	19.04	22.53	19.23	12.02	24.12	0	0	0	1	0	1.52	0	0
Thrace	15.93	18.93	19.3	16.36	25.84	1.59	0	1.29	0	0.68	0.08	0	0
Eastern_Thrace	17.34	18.89	20.2	12.03	27.42	2.63	0	0	1.02	0.31	0.13	0	0
bigsnake_thrace	19.45	19.80	19.27	15.01	22.41	0.88	0.67	0.51	0.33	0.28	0.28	0.54	0.57
Greek_Northeast_avg	19.39	17.35	19.66	14.29	24.50	2.87	0.33	0.26	0.44	0.38	0.29	0.08	0.13
aromanians:
aromanian1	25.95	23.56	16.11	9.72	19.35	3.09	0	0	1.2	0.27	0.53	0.21	0
aromanian2	23.28	21.03	17.32	12.84	19.86	2.64	0.01	0	1.26	1.24	0.54	0	0
aromanian3	21.34	21.03	18.47	10.96	22.05	4.71	0	0	0	1.06	0.25	0.12	0
aromanian4	22.21	19.88	20.33	11.84	19.73	4.68	0	0.66	0	0	0.67	0	0
aromanian5	21.16	16.34	21.87	11.2	23.99	4.14	0.06	0.43	0	0	0.81	0	0
aromanian6	19.98	21.95	20.79	12.18	22.6	1.05	0.18	0.34	0.91	0	0	0	0
aromanian7	17.79	20.84	18.59	11.7	27.51	1.38	1.01	0.15	0.35	0.67	0	0	0
aromanian8	18.34	18.11	18.52	13.72	25.8	2.99	0.15	2.14	0	0	0.24	0	0
aromanian_avg	21.26	20.34	19.00	11.77	22.61	3.09	0.18	0.47	0.47	0.41	0.38	0.04	0.00

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Aromanian1 looks like an outlier, but the rest must be legit. An average of about 40-42% NA+Baltic is also found in Aromanians whose families settled in Romania.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ion Basescul

Aromanian1 looks like an outlier, but the rest must be legit. An average of about 40-42% NA+Baltic is also found in Aromanians whose families settled in Romania.

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Aromanian1 is Paradox's father. And those Aromanians living in Romania you posted are included here, haha. Without them the sample would be too small, and they are obviously pure Aromanians.

OK, there doesn't seem to be much of a difference between these kits and those than JohnnyP collected, with the exception of certain Greeks being very southern-shifted. Paradox's dad on the other hand is a clear outlier here, not only compared to the other seven Aromanian samples, but also to even to the most northern-shifted of these Greeks, excluding the one kit with dubious ancestry that Kaspias found. So I don't think it's fair to cast doubt on Johnny for not including any people like him. If they were common, in such a large collection of samples we would have found some that are similar.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

Aromanian1 is Paradox's father. And those Aromanians living in Romania you posted are included here, haha. Without them the sample would be too small, and they are obviously pure Aromanians.

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Ah yes, there are also these 2 from Constanta:

Code:

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19.97,21.03,19.05,13.79,21.77,3.51,0.50,0.12,0.26,0,0,0,0
24.30,17.60,21.30,10.01,22.97,3.03,0,0.38,0.21,0.20,0,0,0

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And this one is 3/4 Romanian from Oltenia region and 1/4 Slavic Macedonian from Struga, which is why I tend to believe in Macedonians being as Southern as they are portrayed in this thread.

Code:

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19.05,23.68,19.16,14.27,18.97,0.88,1.96,0.83,1.21,0,0,0,0

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Is funny how Central Macedonians (Vardar Region) plots close to Ghegs even there are not living Albanians at all.Albanians are living West/Northwest and Skopje too.
I think even more North Atlantic than Ghegs.

https://i.imgur.com/rjYzw6l.png
https://i.imgur.com/4lf3E3c.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CommonSense

OK, there doesn't seem to be much of a difference between these kits and those than JohnnyP collected, with the exception of certain Greeks being very southern-shifted. Paradox's dad on the other hand is a clear outlier here, not only compared to the other seven Aromanian samples, but also to even to the most northern-shifted of these Greeks, excluding the one kit with dubious ancestry that Kaspias found. So I don't think it's fair to cast doubt on Johnny for not including any people like him. If they were common, in such a large collection of samples we would have found some that are similar.

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the Aromanian sample size is quite small for a population spread over such a large area. I expect more Aromanian results like paradox dad's to appear, I don't see what kind of foreign admixture could be giving him that NA shift.

also, 90% of the central Macedonia results are from Thessaloniki. (very likely the Macedonia:Macedonia samples too)
we need a proper sample from the mountainous part of Greek Macedonia to see what the area is really like.

All these distances are super close to me

Distance to: Sarakatsani
2.66373798 Greek_West_Macedonia_avg
3.19806191 GreeceNE284
3.65603610 Florina_West_Macedonia
3.69912152 East_Rumelia_642
3.70332283 Greek_Northeast_avg
4.06732099 East_Rumelia_650
4.10143877 Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
4.12000000 Serres_Central_Macedonia
4.18982100 Florina_West_Macedonia
4.28504376 Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP15
4.36548966 Macedonia:Macedonia_675
4.55157116 Macedonia:Macedonia_681
4.79341215 GreeceMaced3
4.81205777 aromanian5
4.85897108 GreeceNE162
5.06638925 Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP8
5.24700867 Greek_Central_Macedonia_avg
5.26899421 GreeceNE144
5.28754196 Florina_West_Macedonia
5.39523864 GreeceNE59
5.57445962 aromanian8
5.67870584 Macedonia:Macedonia_674
5.76124119 Macedonia:Macedonia_678
5.76713967 aromanian_avg
5.79425578 East_Rumelia_646

Quote:

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Originally Posted by catgeorge

All these distances are super close to me

Distance to: Sarakatsani
2.66373798 Greek_West_Macedonia_avg
3.19806191 GreeceNE284
3.65603610 Florina_West_Macedonia
3.69912152 East_Rumelia_642
3.70332283 Greek_Northeast_avg
4.06732099 East_Rumelia_650
4.10143877 Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
4.12000000 Serres_Central_Macedonia
4.18982100 Florina_West_Macedonia
4.28504376 Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP15
4.36548966 Macedonia:Macedonia_675
4.55157116 Macedonia:Macedonia_681
4.79341215 GreeceMaced3
4.81205777 aromanian5
4.85897108 GreeceNE162
5.06638925 Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP8
5.24700867 Greek_Central_Macedonia_avg
5.26899421 GreeceNE144
5.28754196 Florina_West_Macedonia
5.39523864 GreeceNE59
5.57445962 aromanian8
5.67870584 Macedonia:Macedonia_674
5.76124119 Macedonia:Macedonia_678
5.76713967 aromanian_avg
5.79425578 East_Rumelia_646

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Can you try also with Central Macedonians

Code:

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CentralMacedonian,23.4,17.66,22.46,10.96,21.79,0.61,0,0,1.28,1.39,0.45,0,0
CentralMacedonian,24.95,18.23,16.98,11.13,23.42,2.32,0.24,0.65,0.42,1.29,0,0.3,0.05
CentralMacedonian,26.15,19.03,19.35,11.39,21.87,0.75,0,0.19,0,1.04,0.22,0,0
CentralMacedonian,23.08,19.92,20.01,8.89,21.14,3.89,0.53,0,1.03,0,1.51,0,0
CentralMacedonian,20.02,19.6,24.44,11.52,20.51,1.1,0.79,0,1.1,0.91,0,0,0
CentralMacedonian,24.32,19.78,19.27,11.46,21.06,2.55,0.31,0,0,0,1.25,0,0
CentralMacedonian,21.4,19.31,21.83,13.53,18.74,3.36,0,0.59,0,0.93,0.31,0,0
CentralMacedonian,24.57,20.39,23.71,11.77,15.85,2.44,1.27,0,0,0,0,0,0
CentralMacedonian,24.31,20.31,21.45,12.17,19.52,0.53,0,0.46,0.85,0,0,0.36,0
CentralMacedonian,25.74,19.17,18.22,9.22,23.84,1.97,0,1.84,0,0,0,0,0
CentralMacedonian,24.87,18.4,18.76,13.55,20.15,2.56,0,1.07,0.17,0,0.48,0,0
CentralMacedonian,24.27,18.19,21.47,12.65,20.38,2.18,0,0,0.17,0.6,0,0,0.09

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by JohnnyP

Can you try also with Central Macedonians

Code:

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CentralMacedonian,23.4,17.66,22.46,10.96,21.79,0.61,0,0,1.28,1.39,0.45,0,0
CentralMacedonian,24.95,18.23,16.98,11.13,23.42,2.32,0.24,0.65,0.42,1.29,0,0.3,0.05
CentralMacedonian,26.15,19.03,19.35,11.39,21.87,0.75,0,0.19,0,1.04,0.22,0,0
CentralMacedonian,23.08,19.92,20.01,8.89,21.14,3.89,0.53,0,1.03,0,1.51,0,0
CentralMacedonian,20.02,19.6,24.44,11.52,20.51,1.1,0.79,0,1.1,0.91,0,0,0
CentralMacedonian,24.32,19.78,19.27,11.46,21.06,2.55,0.31,0,0,0,1.25,0,0
CentralMacedonian,21.4,19.31,21.83,13.53,18.74,3.36,0,0.59,0,0.93,0.31,0,0
CentralMacedonian,24.57,20.39,23.71,11.77,15.85,2.44,1.27,0,0,0,0,0,0
CentralMacedonian,24.31,20.31,21.45,12.17,19.52,0.53,0,0.46,0.85,0,0,0.36,0
CentralMacedonian,25.74,19.17,18.22,9.22,23.84,1.97,0,1.84,0,0,0,0,0
CentralMacedonian,24.87,18.4,18.76,13.55,20.15,2.56,0,1.07,0.17,0,0.48,0,0
CentralMacedonian,24.27,18.19,21.47,12.65,20.38,2.18,0,0,0.17,0.6,0,0,0.09

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Not as close - first three matches aligns with bottom three matches from Greece.. so first three matches would have hightened Greek input as I score super high Greek_Athens

Distance to: Sarakatsani
5.61245935 CentralMacedonian
5.70592674 CentralMacedonian
5.95376352 CentralMacedonian
6.42858460 CentralMacedonian
6.73672769 CentralMacedonian
6.92486823 CentralMacedonian
7.30267759 CentralMacedonian
7.53998011 CentralMacedonian
7.92065023 CentralMacedonian
8.08700810 CentralMacedonian
8.90183127 CentralMacedonian
11.26391140 CentralMacedonian

I find it interesting that Macedonians have higher Atlantic Med than Greeks in K12b.

https://i.ibb.co/Wcqyznm/k12batl.png

Also, in case you are interested:

https://i.ibb.co/t403Vb6/k12bne.png
https://i.ibb.co/4FxNncd/k12bcauc.png
https://i.ibb.co/LPyZwJ3/k12bswa.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaspias

I find it interesting that Macedonians have higher Atlantic Med than Greeks in K12b.

https://i.ibb.co/Wcqyznm/k12batl.png

Also, in case you are interested:

https://i.ibb.co/t403Vb6/k12bne.png
https://i.ibb.co/4FxNncd/k12bcauc.png
https://i.ibb.co/LPyZwJ3/k12bswa.png

---

I think these Greek_Macedonian DodecadK12b are not updated , even Serbian average have more Atlanto_Med than Greek_Macedonian, and Greek_Macedonian plots really close to Bulgarian_East, as i said these references are not updated at all or are wrong, and also i guess Greek Macedonians to have more Caucasus than Atlanto_Med coz pontiaks and Turks ?

I guess Greeks from West Macedonia to have high Atlanto_Med.

Nothing to do with North Atlantic

North_Atlantic,Baltic,West_Med,West_Asian &East_Med is all pretty much similar constant between the 15-23 range. Greeks don't spike hard in either of these

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by catgeorge

Nothing to do with North Atlantic

North_Atlantic,Baltic,West_Med,West_Asian &East_Med is all pretty much similar constant between the 15-23 range. Greeks don't spike hard in either of these

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by catgeorge

Nothing to do with North Atlantic

North_Atlantic,Baltic,West_Med,West_Asian &East_Med is all pretty much similar constant between the 15-23 range. Greeks don't spike hard in either of these

---

Macedonians from Central part and from East have high North Atlantic.

<google-sheets-html-origin style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium;">

Region	North Atlantic	Baltic
Central	23.4	17.66
Central	24.95	18.23
Central	26.15	19.03
Central	23.08	19.92
Central	20.02	19.6
Central	24.32	19.78
Central	21.4	19.31
Central	24.57	20.39
Central	24.31	20.31
Central	25.74	19.17
Central	24.87	18.4
Central	24.27	18.19

</google-sheets-html-origin><google-sheets-html-origin style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium;">

Eastern Region	29.57	22.12
Eastern Region	24.71	21.04
Eastern Region	23.34	19.96
Eastern Region	24.55	21.43
Eastern Region	26.57	17.40

</google-sheets-html-origin>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnnyP

Macedonians from Central part and from East have high North Atlantic.

<google-sheets-html-origin style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium;">

Region	North Atlantic	Baltic
Central	23.4	17.66
Central	24.95	18.23
Central	26.15	19.03
Central	23.08	19.92
Central	20.02	19.6
Central	24.32	19.78
Central	21.4	19.31
Central	24.57	20.39
Central	24.31	20.31
Central	25.74	19.17
Central	24.87	18.4
Central	24.27	18.19

</google-sheets-html-origin><google-sheets-html-origin style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium;">

Eastern Region	29.57	22.12
Eastern Region	24.71	21.04
Eastern Region	23.34	19.96
Eastern Region	24.55	21.43
Eastern Region	26.57	17.40

</google-sheets-html-origin>

---

Most of those would come under the Greek range but alot of those are too high for Greeks - geographically we should have nothing to do with them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnnyP

I think these Greek_Macedonian DodecadK12b are not updated , even Serbian average have more Atlanto_Med than Greek_Macedonian, and Greek_Macedonian plots really close to Bulgarian_East, as i said these references are not updated at all or are wrong, and also i guess Greek Macedonians to have more Caucasus than Atlanto_Med coz pontiaks and Turks ?

I guess Greeks from West Macedonia to have high Atlanto_Med.

---

Greek_Macedonia is Greeks from an article, labeled as such.

Greeks from Western Macedonia have high Atlanto Med and lesser North European. Caucasus score in Dodecad K12b is not exactly the same as West Asian in Eurogenes K13 and possibly covers a degree of EEF admixture, too. It seems that's why Greeks are scoring higher.

There should be two categories for Greek Macedonians. One for those of a Slavic speaking background, and another for those of a Greek speaking background, who hail from the regions of Grevena, Pieria, Imathia, Chalkidiki, etc. The label "Greek_Macedonia" means almost nothing if you dont know where exactly the samples are from.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

that doesn't mean much.
in k13, individuals can range +-5 from the average in each component, and still be pure members of that population with no foreign ancestry.

your dad has much less than 5 differnce with each component from Johnny's average:

paradox father	25.95	23.56	16.11	9.72	19.35	3.09	0	0	1.2	0.27	0.53	0.21	0
Macedonian average	22.14	21.18	20.02	11.03	21.55	2.24	0.25	0.34	0.43	0.38	0.35	0.04	0.06
difference	3.81	2.38	3.91	1.31	2.2	0.85	0.25	0.34	0.77	0.11	0.18	0.17	0.06

there is just a very big number of southern Balkan(Albanian, Macedonian, Greek) averages in the sheet, which are all very similar to each other, and your father is by accident closer to some than the other.



the best way to check the validity of averages is to check how multiple independent sources align. johnnyP is one source.

You could make 3 Macedonian k13 averages from another 3 independent sources and compare them:
1 k13 results of Macedonian apricity members: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...-eurogenes-k13
2 the k13 results of these Macedonians https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...ent-on-the-map
3 Macedonian k13 results posted on Anthrogenica, Eupedia and Apricity (except those posted in this thread), search on google for example "Eupedia Macedonian Eurogenes results" you should find a dozen of them.

I don't have time for this now, but you could run this study.

---

Thanks! I have been finding results but i definately appreciate the additional links.

Macedonian from Galichnik
https://i.imgur.com/z9F6dRy.png

https://i.imgur.com/n8rvHSD.png

https://i.imgur.com/i9eZ5RE.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnnyP

Macedonian from Galichnik

---

Mijak, nice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Varda

Mijak, nice.

---

Yes, like the guy in my avatar :thumb001:

Macedonian from Kavadarci (Central-Vardar region)

https://i.imgur.com/Yd3i4a5.png

Macedonian from Skopje-Kumanovo (Northeast region)

https://i.imgur.com/9Fe3Mdj.png

Macedonian k15 averages from 60 kits,

Code:

---

Macedonian(n=60),14.55,15.12,13.91,7.71,16.10,10.83,18.68,2.28,0.13,0.13,0.11,0.20,0.22,0.02,0.01
Macedonian_Central&South(n=30),14.53,14.93,13.21,6.30,16.50,10.70,20.69,2.27,0.12,0.10,0.14,0.25,0.23,0.02,0.01
Macedonian_North(n=20),13.86,15.37,15.21,8.36,15.37,11.27,17.66,2.19,0.17,0.13,0.05,0.11,0.20,0.04,0.01
Macedonian_East(n=10),17.10,15.31,13.33,7.73,16.43,10.01,16.54,2.65,0.08,0.25,0.15,0.19,0.22,0.00,0.00

---

Code:

---

Target: Macedonian(n=60)
Distance: 0.6145% / 0.61447016 | R2P
58.2    Albanian-Kosovo
41.8    Bulgarian

---

Code:

---

Target: Macedonian_Central&South(n=30)
Distance: 1.1635% / 1.16347286 | R2P
92.7    Albanian-North
7.3    Lithuanian

---

Code:

---



Target: Macedonian_North(n=20)
Distance: 0.9472% / 0.94717813 | R2P
60.3    Bulgarian
39.7    Kosovo_Albanian

---

Code:

---

Target: Macedonian_East(n=10)
Distance: 1.0964% / 1.09643103 | R2P
76.7    Albanian-Kosovo
23.3    Croat_Bosnia

---

https://i.imgur.com/nr1o4H4.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnnyP

Macedonian from Kavadarci (Central-Vardar region)

https://i.imgur.com/Yd3i4a5.png

Macedonian from Skopje-Kumanovo (Northeast region)

https://i.imgur.com/9Fe3Mdj.png

---

That East Eurasian in the 2nd.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaspias

That East Eurasian in the 2nd.

---

This is highest Siberian I ever seen :D He is half from Kumanovo ( I quess because of Kumani ) :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaspias

That East Eurasian in the 2nd.

---

Dodecad gives him only half of that

Gedrosia 5.2 Pct
Siberian 1.37 Pct
Northwest_African 1.75 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 26.48 Pct
North_European 34.08 Pct
South_Asian -
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 4.88 Pct
East_Asian -
Caucasus 26.24 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

Don't know why and which component may have sucked it in.

Johnny, do you have any Roma/Gypsy/Tzigane examples from Macedonia?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leto

Dodecad gives him only half of that

Gedrosia 5.2 Pct
Siberian 1.37 Pct
Northwest_African 1.75 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 26.48 Pct
North_European 34.08 Pct
South_Asian -
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 4.88 Pct
East_Asian -
Caucasus 26.24 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

Don't know why and which component may have sucked it in.

---

This is his elaborating about his ancestry, I'm 3/4 macedonian northeast part Kumanovo/Skopje and 1/4 serbian (east Kosovo). Born in Skopje, Macedonia.

Kosovo is close to Kumanovo so I didn't mentioned 1/4 Serbian.

Macedonian from East, direct descendant from Gjergj Skenderbeg (Aleksander - Iskender) , y-dna EV-13,

https://i.imgur.com/WXV15VO.png

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

#		Primary Population (source)			Secondary Population (source)			Distance
1		76.5%	Bulgarian	+	23.5%	Spanish_Galicia	@	2.51
2		88%	Romanian	+	12%	Sardinian	@	2.55
3		77%	Bulgarian	+	23%	Spanish_Extremadura	@	2.58
4		79.8%	Bulgarian	+	20.2%	Spanish_Cantabria	@	2.58
5		86.6%	Bulgarian	+	13.4%	French_Basque	@	2.6
6		79.4%	Bulgarian	+	20.6%	Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha	@	2.62
7		80.3%	Bulgarian	+	19.7%	Southwest_French	@	2.62
8		81.7%	Bulgarian	+	18.3%	Spanish_Aragon	@	2.74
9		78.9%	Bulgarian	+	21.1%	Spanish_Andalucia	@	2.77
10		78.6%	Bulgarian	+	21.4%	Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon	@	2.82
11		53.1%	Tuscan	+	46.9%	Moldavian	@	2.82
12		76.7%	Bulgarian	+	23.3%	Portuguese	@	2.87
13		78.8%	Bulgarian	+	21.2%	Spanish_Murcia	@	2.94
14		78.6%	Bulgarian	+	21.4%	Spanish_Cataluna	@	3.06
15		79.2%	Bulgarian	+	20.8%	Spanish_Valencia	@	3.06
16		72.2%	Romanian	+	27.8%	North_Italian	@	3.07
17		69.6%	Bulgarian	+	30.4%	North_Italian	@	3.22
18		82.6%	Romanian	+	17.4%	Spanish_Andalucia	@	3.42
19		81.3%	Romanian	+	18.7%	Spanish_Extremadura	@	3.44
20		57.5%	Tuscan	+	42.5%	Croatian	@	3.54

My friend Macedonian from Kumanovo got his G25 coordinates but from IllustrativeDNA, Idk if they are legit and same like original ones from Davidski ?

Code:

---

Filip_scaled,0.12862,0.14319,0.020742,-0.008398,0.023389,0.002789,0.00893,-0.003231,0.001636,0.008565,0.00341,0.00015,0.000446,0.012524,-0.015065,-0.013259,-0.003129,0.003294,0.000377,-0.003752,-0.009858,-0.004328,-0.002465,-0.006386,0.003832
Filip,0.0113,0.0141,0.0055,-0.0026,0.0076,0.001,0.0038,-0.0014,0.0008,0.0047,0.0021,0.0001,0.0003,0.0091,-0.0111,-0.01,-0.0024,0.0026,0.0003,-0.003,-0.0079,-0.0035,-0.002,-0.0053,0.0032

---

It shows on averages Gagauz like first with scaled, strange ,I'm aware that Gagauz people have lot of Paleo Balkanic dna, but on another Gedmatch calculators doesn't shows any turkic, What you think this is legit?

Distance to:	Filip_scaled
0.02387755	Gagauz
0.02417343	Greek_Macedonia
0.02790598	Bulgarian
0.02894101	Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.03112802	Rumelia_East
0.03136467	Macedonian:Northwest
0.03154156	Albanian
0.03197635	Macedonian:East2
0.03229178	Greek_Thessaly
0.03305789	Macedonian:Pelagonia1

Individual

Distance to:	Filip_scaled
0.02220982	Albanian:AL82
0.02580406	Gagauz:GAG-220
0.02641352	Greek_Macedonia:674
0.02650392	Greek_Central_Macedonia:GreeceNE11
0.02679087	Greek_Macedonia:683
0.02719311	Bulgarian:BulgarianH2
0.02757712	Moldovan:MOL-024
0.02865876	Greek_Central_Macedonia:GREEKGRALPOP11
0.02867614	Gagauz:GAG-187
0.02893933	Albanian:ALB202

<body id="cke_pastebin" style="position: absolute; top: 0px; width: 1px; height: 1px; overflow: hidden; left: -1000px;">

Target: Filip_scaled Distance: 1.8666% / 0.01866569 | ADC: 0.25x RC
80.2	Greek_Macedonia
12.2	Russian_Smolensk
7.6	Italian_Lombardy

</body>

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnnyP

Macedonian from East, direct descendant from Gjergj Skenderbeg (Aleksander - Iskender) , y-dna EV-13,

https://i.imgur.com/WXV15VO.png

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

#		Primary Population (source)			Secondary Population (source)			Distance
1		76.5%	Bulgarian	+	23.5%	Spanish_Galicia	@	2.51
2		88%	Romanian	+	12%	Sardinian	@	2.55
3		77%	Bulgarian	+	23%	Spanish_Extremadura	@	2.58
4		79.8%	Bulgarian	+	20.2%	Spanish_Cantabria	@	2.58
5		86.6%	Bulgarian	+	13.4%	French_Basque	@	2.6
6		79.4%	Bulgarian	+	20.6%	Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha	@	2.62
7		80.3%	Bulgarian	+	19.7%	Southwest_French	@	2.62
8		81.7%	Bulgarian	+	18.3%	Spanish_Aragon	@	2.74
9		78.9%	Bulgarian	+	21.1%	Spanish_Andalucia	@	2.77
10		78.6%	Bulgarian	+	21.4%	Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon	@	2.82
11		53.1%	Tuscan	+	46.9%	Moldavian	@	2.82
12		76.7%	Bulgarian	+	23.3%	Portuguese	@	2.87
13		78.8%	Bulgarian	+	21.2%	Spanish_Murcia	@	2.94
14		78.6%	Bulgarian	+	21.4%	Spanish_Cataluna	@	3.06
15		79.2%	Bulgarian	+	20.8%	Spanish_Valencia	@	3.06
16		72.2%	Romanian	+	27.8%	North_Italian	@	3.07
17		69.6%	Bulgarian	+	30.4%	North_Italian	@	3.22
18		82.6%	Romanian	+	17.4%	Spanish_Andalucia	@	3.42
19		81.3%	Romanian	+	18.7%	Spanish_Extremadura	@	3.44
20		57.5%	Tuscan	+	42.5%	Croatian	@	3.54

---

Direct descendant? Lmao where in the he'll did you get that nonsense from? Pull 9t out if a hat?

Skanderbegs direct descendants went to Italy. And his Y-DNA isn't actually known.

Calma man , His family are Macedonians from Albania last 200 years they migrated to east part of Macedonia, their family historically are from same tribe like Gjegj Kastriot Skenderbeg and were closely related , surname of this guy is Drekalski , this is family history which they kept from knee to knee , I will not posting non-sense for sure, I know in general that people here are skeptical.
Btw in those times, modern Albanian territory was called Macedonia too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnnyP

All results;
https://i.imgur.com/0PwcrTe.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/FKKgxqx.jpg

---

you have 2 duplicates here. the first one in West is he same as the second one in Southwest, and the second in West is the same as the first in Northwest.

bump

bump 3

bump 4

bump 5

bump 6

bump 7

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JohnnyP

All results;
https://i.imgur.com/0PwcrTe.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/FKKgxqx.jpg

---

there are 2 duplicates here. the first one in West is he same as the second one in Southwest, and the second in West is the same as the first in Northwest.

Macedonian account with multiple kits.
These are the ancestral surnames listed for NX5978002 : Jankovski / Stojkovski / Stojanovski / Stanoevski

HP1191486	21.1	21.89	19.01	10.99	22.12	4.89	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
EF6281350	25.7	22.06	16.51	9.67	22.91	2.41	0	0.37	0	0.24	0	0.13	0
PG6810571	26.03	22.6	17.73	10.38	21.01	1.02	0	0	0	1	0	0	0.23
NX5978002	26.15	28.81	17.18	5.3	17.72	2.24	0.24	0.51	1.09	0.76	0	0	0
WC3226359	26.55	29.89	15.57	7.45	14.5	2.56	1.17	0	0	1.2	0	1.12	0

another one:
CE8882696 is half from Ohrid/Bitola region, half from northeast/Kochani region. the other one is his mother or daughter.

SA4834840	21.92	21.7	19.26	11.25	22.76	2.14	0	0	0.71	0.08	0.17	0	0
CE8882696	23.77	19.85	20.48	10.98	22.64	0.16	0	0	0.37	1.41	0.34	0	0

another one, surnames:
/ Bocevski / Bangieva / Bangiev / Dumova / Dumov / Dervishova / Dervishov / Stojova / Stojov - according to forebears.io, all these are mostly Macedonian.

TG7793987

21.78

29.79

16.57

10.52

17.17

1.42

2.22

0.14

0.37

0

0

0

0

Macedonian/Bulgarian from Greek Macedonia:
Aegoff (Macedonia/Greece) / Agimitzeff (Macedonia/Greece) / Guscoff/Gaskas (Macedonia/Canada/USA) / Shuparoff (Macedonia/Greece) / Yoncheff (Macedonia) / Zrinkovi/Zerencheff (Macedonia/Greece)

A872089	17.12	21.26	23.19	13.1	20.69	2.95	0	0	0.87	0.71	0	0	0.09
A735427	22.39	19.09	20.37	11.3	22.76	2.82	0	0	0.81	0.46	0	0	0