LolQuote:
Originally Posted by Hulu
This had nothing to do with Illyrians. Illyricum was Dalmatia + Panonnia
We are speaking about Iron Age.
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LolQuote:
Originally Posted by Hulu
This had nothing to do with Illyrians. Illyricum was Dalmatia + Panonnia
We are speaking about Iron Age.
Fair enough, I mean in albania they may have been different. But also much of Eastern genetics probably came much later.Quote:
Originally Posted by Feiichy
Yep. These are northern Illyrians only, southern Illyrians don't need to be the same. But haplogroups are good indication of relation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ylla
The territory the Illyrians inhabited came to be known as Illyria to Greek and Roman authors, who identified a territory that corresponds to Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Slovenia, Montenegro, Kosovo, part of Serbia and most of central and northern Albania, between the Adriatic Sea in the west, the Drava river in the north, the Morava river in the east and the mouth of the Aoos river in the south.
The name "Illyrians", as applied by the ancient Greeks to their northern neighbors, may have referred to a broad, ill-defined group of peoples. The Illyrian tribes never collectively regarded themselves as 'Illyrians', and it is unlikely that they used any collective nomenclature for themselves. In fact, Illyrians seems to be the name of a specific Illyrian tribe that was among the first to come in contact with the ancient Greeks during the Bronze Age, with the Greeks later applying pars pro toto the name Illyrians to all people with similar language and customs. At present it is unclear to what extent the Illyrians were linguistically and culturally homogeneous. In fact, Illyric origin was and still is attributed also to a few ancient peoples residing in Italy: the Iapyges, Dauni, and Messapi, who are thought to have most likely followed Adriatic shorelines to the Italian peninsula from the geographic "Illyria".
It's a historical mapQuote:
Originally Posted by ixulescu
IND_roopkund_B it’s a medieval greek?Quote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
Core Illyrian tribes
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._Docleatae.svg
We have no samples from them
In case of Croatians, I prefer names like Dalmatians and Panonnians. Those were North Italian/Iberian like, and they are my non-Slavic part.
i wasn't sure, but it seems it is. it has Slavic influence so it's not good for making these models. i'll do a list without itQuote:
Originally Posted by andre
[,1] [,2]
[1,] "Greek_Crete" "0.0079"
[2,] "Greek_Ionia" "0.0084"
[3,] "Italian_Basilicata" "0.0088"
[4,] "Greek_Kos" "0.0088"
[5,] "Italian_Apulia" "0.0097"
[6,] "Italian_Calabria" "0.0101"
[7,] "Italian_Campania" "0.0104"
[8,] "Greek" "0.0113"
[9,] "Italian_Molise" "0.0115"
[10,] "Italian_Abruzzo" "0.0116"
[11,] "Sicilian_East" "0.0147"
[12,] "Albanian" "0.0148"
[13,] "Italian_Lazio" "0.0155"
[14,] "Italian_Marche" "0.0155"
[15,] "Maltese" "0.0157"
[16,] "Italian_Umbria" "0.0159"
[17,] "Romaniote_Jew" "0.0162"
[18,] "Ashkenazi_Jew" "0.0162"
[19,] "Sicilian_West" "0.0164"
[20,] "Italian_Jew" "0.0165"
[,1] [,2]
[1,] "27.2 % Bulgarian + 72.8 % Greek_Kos" "0.0048"
[2,] "75.8 % Greek_Kos + 24.2 % Romanian" "0.005"
[3,] "78.4 % Greek_Kos + 21.6 % Serbian" "0.0051"
[4,] "34.1 % Albanian + 65.9 % Greek_Kos" "0.0051"
[5,] "72.9 % Greek_Kos + 27.1 % Moldavian" "0.0053"
[6,] "41.3 % Greek + 58.7 % Greek_Kos" "0.0053"
[7,] "77 % Greek_Kos + 23 % Macedonian" "0.0055"
[8,] "26.4 % Gagauz + 73.6 % Greek_Kos" "0.0055"
[9,] "36.7 % Greek + 63.3 % Greek_Crete" "0.0055"
[10,] "84.1 % Greek_Kos + 15.9 % Slovenian" "0.0056"
[11,] "16.4 % Croatian + 83.6 % Greek_Kos" "0.0056"
[12,] "51.9 % Greek_Ionia + 48.1 % Greek_Kos" "0.0056"
[13,] "37.8 % Cypriot + 62.2 % Greek" "0.0057"
[14,] "89.3 % Greek_Kos + 10.7 % Russian_Smolensk" "0.0057"
[15,] "79.8 % Greek_Kos + 20.2 % Montenegrin" "0.0058"
[16,] "84.5 % Greek_Kos + 15.5 % Hungarian" "0.0058"
[17,] "88.8 % Greek_Kos + 11.2 % Russian_Voronez" "0.0058"
[18,] "87.3 % Greek_Kos + 12.7 % Tatar_Mishar" "0.0058"
[19,] "90.2 % Greek_Kos + 9.8 % Russian_Pinega" "0.0059"
[20,] "10.3 % Belarusian + 89.7 % Greek_Kos" "0.0059"
I don't think it has Slavic influence. Its probably just a northern shift that existed from ancient times.
g25 is better than that. if it was that ancient northern shift he would get Yamnaya or Corded ware, not Bulgarian and RomanianQuote:
Originally Posted by Mingle
It should depict that period, but it does a bad job. There are plenty of nomadic tribes listed north of Danube, but the main, sedentary, population is not mentioned. That's pretty bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulu
Also the main change of borders in that area during the marked period is not represented on the map. It's good for the trash heap, like most "historical" maps.
Yamnaya and Corded Ware are more ancient. Roopkund B doesn't get them cause of genetic drift. Most northeastern DNA among Bulgarians and Romanians probably comes from Slavs, but some of it comes from IA populations as well. Iron Age Thracians and Paeonians wouldn't have plotted like Cretans and Sicilians but north of them. Same applies to Iron Age Mainland Greeks. Besides the fact that IA Mainland Greeks likely were northern shifted compared to Sicilians/Cretans, Greeks (especially mainland ones) would have also shared some non-northern DNA with modern Bulgarians and Romanians that would make them select those populations in mixed mode modeling instead of Yamnaya/CW (in addition to genetic drift).Quote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
Roopkund B is a sample of a Greek descendant in India. The Greeks in South/Central Asia were descended from the soldiers of the Macedonian Empire. The Greeks would have thus arrived in S/C Asia before Slavs arrived to the Balkans. So the Greek sample couldn't have had Slavic influence based on the history of the region.
list without IND_Roopkund_B
Bosnians
"58.2 % HUN_Avar_Szolad_Av2 + 41.8 % ITA_Tivoli_Renaissance" "0.0101"
"63.4 % HUN_Avar_Szolad_Av2 + 36.6 % ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA_o" "0.0106"
Bulgarians
"44.2 % HUN_Avar_Szolad_Av2 + 55.8 % ITA_Rome_Imperial" "0.0086"
"37.3 % HUN_Avar_Szolad_Av2 + 62.7 % ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity" "0.0091"
Macedonians
"49.5 % BGR_IA + 50.5 % HUN_Avar_Szolad_Av2"
"48 % HUN_Avar_Szolad_Av2 + 52 % ITA_Rome_Imperial" "0.0118"
Romanians
"39.2 % HUN_Avar_Szolad_Av2 + 60.8 % ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity" "0.0093"
"40.8 % HUN_Avar_Szolad_Av2 + 59.2 % ITA_Tivoli_Renaissance" "0.01"
i think only Balto-Slavs in g25 have a post bronze age drift in g25. Mycenaeans and HRV_IA can still be modelled well with Yamnaya and Corded ware and neolithic samplesQuote:
Originally Posted by Mingle
is this confirmed? these samples, there's more of them, seem to be from different groups of modern Greeks, or maybe medievals who were already like modern onesQuote:
Originally Posted by Mingle
Myceneans and HRV IA would be a bit more distant to Romanians and Bulgarians than Medieval Greeks were, both in time period and geography (and thus would've had less similar ancestral components as well).Quote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
Also, as I mentioned, there's a lot of shared non-Slavic ancestry between Greeks, Romanians, and Bulgarians. In fact, the majority of their shared ancestry is non-Slavic.
Roopkund is an archaeological site in India. Not all the Roopkund samples are Greeks. However, its logical to assume that they were Greek descendants of the Macedonian Empire Greeks since they cluster with Greeks. Those that cluster with Indians (Roopkund A) can be assumed to have been native Indians.Quote:
is this confirmed? these samples, there's more of them, seem to be from different groups of modern Greeks, or maybe medievals who were already like modern ones
Čestitam Dule. :food-smiley-004:
Quote:
Originally Posted by andre
y-DNA of Roopkund_B samples:Quote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
1. J1a3a
2. R1a1a1b1a2b
3. G2a2b2a1a1c1a2
4. R1b1ab
5. T1a2
6. E1b1b1b2
https://media.springernature.com/ful...ML.png?as=webp
SNP calls: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1185572501
I6936 and I3404 appear to be Mainland Greeks.
I6397 may be a South Italian.
I3405, I6939, and I3403 seem to be Cretans, but possibly also South Italians.
I6935 is a Cappadocian Greek (from Central Anatolia).
However, I3350 appears to be Italian.
The study says the Roopkund_B individuals were born in the eastern Mediterranean during the period of Ottoman political control. Greece is the best fit in this scenario and at least few samples appear to be from mainland Greece (Fig. 2b.) Eurogenes confirmed one sample is an Anatolian Greek. Cretans can be ruled out because the Roopkund_B individuals subsisted on a predominantly terrestrial diet and they may have lived in an inland location. The Greeks were the maritime carriers of the Ottoman Empire and they were as dominant as Italians in the fields of commerce and business.
Quote:
The Roopkund_B cluster is more puzzling. It is tempting to hypothesize that the Roopkund_B individuals descend from Indo-Greek populations established after the time of Alexander the Great, who may have contributed ancestry to some present-day groups like the Kalash21. However, this is unlikely, as such a group would be expected to have admixture with groups with more typical South Asian ancestry (as the Kalash do), or would be expected to be inbred and to have relatively low genetic diversity. However, the Roopkund_B individuals have evidence for neither pattern (Supplementary Note 9). Combining different lines of evidence, the data suggest instead that what we have sampled is a group of unrelated men and women who were born in the eastern Mediterranean during the period of Ottoman political control. As suggested by their consumption of a predominantly terrestrial, rather than marine-based diet, they may have lived in an inland location, eventually traveling to and dying in the Himalayas. Whether they were participating in a pilgrimage, or were drawn to Roopkund Lake for other reasons, is a mystery.
:oQuote:
Originally Posted by Dick
I just want to find out why I don't get any North Italian - if it is supposed to be closest to Illyrians, in all these calculators.
What is your usual non-Slavic part in nmonte and mixed oracle?
You may be bit more Slavic than me (I am in 55-65% range) you may be around 70% in fact, right? You are very Slavic Dušan.
But I plot more northern than you do because my pre-Slavic part was considerably more NW shifted than yours.
I am 63% Slavic according to FTDNA, and 58-68% according to Eurogenes calculators K13 and K15.Quote:
Originally Posted by Feiichy
Almost same as me than. K13 closest mixed mode:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dušan
58.8% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 41.2% North_Italian @ 3.88
My father is almost identical to me:
57% Southwest_Russian + 43% North_Italian @ 2.59
It's like you guys forget that many people from the outside were settled by the Romans in this region. In the eastern Dinaric zone we have many people today with non paleo-Balkanic and non-Slavic Y-DNA haplogroups like j2a, j2b-m205, g2a-l497, etc, which is a testament that the people who lived here before Serbs arrived can't be defined as only Illyrians or Thracians.
i'm confused now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mingle
if that sample gets 30% Bulgarian + 70% Greek islander as the best match, and Bulgarian average contains 40% Slavic in it, than this sample surely has around 12% actual Slavic influence, not just any northern shift.
he isn't just matching one part of the Bulgarian. he matches everything that's contained in the Bulgarian average.
they cluster with modern Cretans who have strong Slavic, Germanic and Middle eastern influences.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mingle
ancient Macedonians and Greeks would be closer to Mycenaeans or BGR_IA
Only 50% dear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Feiichy
Don't be ashamed of your paternal muslim ancestors from Dubca!
Also from interior Dalmatia by origin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pribislav
only the Delmatian samples are similar to North Italians.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dušan
i think the border between HRV_IA-like tribes and BGR_IA-like tribes passed somewhere through modern Montenegro and Bosnia, based on k13 results of people from those areas.
Not only. Slavonia and Baranja bronze age samples too.Quote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
Vučedol (R1b-Z2103)
Eurogenes K13
1 North_Atlantic 31.01
2 West_Med 28.48
3 East_Med 15
4 West_Asian 13.66
5 Baltic 8.97
6 Red_Sea 2.66
7 Oceanian 0.18
8 Amerindian 0.05
1 North_Italian 7.92
2 Tuscan 10.81
3 Spanish_Andalucia 11.2
4 Spanish_Extremadura 11.37
5 Portuguese 12.51
6 Spanish_Murcia 13.02
7 Spanish_Galicia 13.08
8 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 13.14
9 Spanish_Valencia 13.28
10 Spanish_Cataluna 13.52
11 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 13.88
12 Spanish_Cantabria 14.72
13 Italian_Abruzzo 15.22
14 Spanish_Aragon 15.66
15 West_Sicilian 15.88
16 Southwest_French 16.07
17 Greek_Thessaly 16.84
18 French 17.23
19 Romanian 18.45
20 Central_Greek 18.66
1 71.9% Southwest_French + 28.1% Armenian @ 3.52
2 80.7% Spanish_Andalucia + 19.3% Georgian @ 3.66
3 81.6% Spanish_Andalucia + 18.4% Abhkasian @ 3.71
4 79% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 21% Abhkasian @ 4.2
5 79.6% Spanish_Andalucia + 20.4% Adygei @ 4.22
6 73.9% Spanish_Cantabria + 26.1% Armenian @ 4.26
7 76.9% Spanish_Cantabria + 23.1% Abhkasian @ 4.28
8 78.1% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 21.9% Georgian @ 4.28
9 75.7% Spanish_Aragon + 24.3% Abhkasian @ 4.37
10 79.8% Spanish_Andalucia + 20.2% Ossetian @ 4.38
11 74.6% Spanish_Aragon + 25.4% Georgian @ 4.39
12 75.9% Spanish_Cantabria + 24.1% Georgian @ 4.41
13 80.3% Spanish_Andalucia + 19.7% North_Ossetian @ 4.43
14 79.2% Spanish_Andalucia + 20.8% Balkar @ 4.44
15 72.8% Southwest_French + 27.2% Georgian_Jewish @ 4.54
16 79.3% Spanish_Andalucia + 20.7% Kabardin @ 4.59
17 62.3% French_Basque + 37.7% Georgian_Jewish @ 4.6
18 75.3% Southwest_French + 24.7% Abhkasian @ 4.63
19 74.2% Southwest_French + 25.8% Georgian @ 4.74
20 78.8% Spanish_Andalucia + 21.2% Kumyk @ 4.8
Eurogenes K15
1 Atlantic 25.55
2 West_Med 22.95
3 North_Sea 16.74
4 West_Asian 14.6
5 East_Med 11.36
6 Baltic 3.48
7 Red_Sea 2.79
8 Eastern_Euro 2.41
9 Oceanian 0.13
1 North_Italian 8.48
2 Spanish_Andalucia 10.72
3 Spanish_Extremadura 11.01
4 Tuscan 11.07
5 Portuguese 11.67
6 Spanish_Murcia 11.72
7 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha 11.84
8 Spanish_Cataluna 12.06
9 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 12.2
10 Spanish_Valencia 12.23
11 Spanish_Galicia 12.66
12 Spanish_Cantabria 13.28
13 Spanish_Aragon 13.78
14 Southwest_French 14.8
15 Italian_Abruzzo 15.8
16 French 16.04
17 West_Sicilian 16.9
18 Greek_Thessaly 17.86
19 Greek 17.89
20 Bulgarian 18.27
1 78.8% Spanish_Cantabria + 21.2% Abhkasian @ 4.27
2 77.5% Spanish_Cantabria + 22.5% Georgian @ 4.28
3 81% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 19% Abhkasian @ 4.58
4 76.9% Spanish_Aragon + 23.1% Georgian @ 4.61
5 78.2% Spanish_Aragon + 21.8% Abhkasian @ 4.62
6 79.9% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 20.1% Georgian @ 4.62
7 83% Spanish_Andalucia + 17% Abhkasian @ 4.81
8 81.9% Spanish_Andalucia + 18.1% Georgian @ 4.86
9 81% Spanish_Andalucia + 19% Ossetian @ 5.04
10 75.6% Spanish_Cantabria + 24.4% Armenian @ 5.06
11 79.1% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + 20.9% Ossetian @ 5.23
12 82.8% Spanish_Extremadura + 17.2% Abhkasian @ 5.27
13 76% Spanish_Aragon + 24% Ossetian @ 5.32
14 80.9% Spanish_Valencia + 19.1% Abhkasian @ 5.34
15 79.8% Spanish_Valencia + 20.2% Georgian @ 5.43
16 81.9% Spanish_Extremadura + 18.1% Georgian @ 5.49
17 76.9% Spanish_Cantabria + 23.1% Ossetian @ 5.53
18 81.2% Spanish_Andalucia + 18.8% Adygei @ 5.54
19 81.8% Spanish_Andalucia + 18.2% North_Ossetian @ 5.54
20 80.8% Spanish_Andalucia + 19.2% Balkar @ 5.6
https://i.imgur.com/SItLIkm.png
Panonnian and Dalmatian Croatia was genetically homogenous.
Btw this sample gets Albanians pretty close on Puntadnal, on 3rd and 5th place
1 Italian_Tuscan 5
2 Italian_Bergamo 6.73
3 Albanian 7.35
4 Greek_Thessaly 7.56
5 Kosovar 7.79
6 Italian_Abruzzo 9.01
7 Macedonian 10.97
8 Greek_Central 11.29
9 Bulgarian 11.45
10 Spaniard 12.66
11 Ashkenazy_Jew 13.72
12 Italian_Sicilian 14.03
13 Montenegrin 14.17
14 Romanian 14.81
15 Serbian 15.7
16 Sephardic_Jew 18.04
17 French 18.47
18 Bosnian 19.5
19 French_Basque 20
20 Croatian 20.32
Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
1 64.2% French_Basque + 35.8% Armenian @ 2.43
2 64.8% French_Basque + 35.2% Assyrian @ 2.72
3 63.8% French_Basque + 36.2% Turkish_Trabzon @ 3.07
4 59.1% French_Basque + 40.9% Turkish_Kayseri @ 3.27
5 85.7% Italian_Bergamo + 14.3% Turkish_Trabzon @ 3.37
6 62.6% French_Basque + 37.4% Azerbaijan_Azeri @ 3.37
7 74% Spaniard + 26% Turkish_Trabzon @ 3.41
8 70.4% Italian_Abruzzo + 29.6% French_Basque @ 3.54
9 56.8% French_Basque + 43.2% Turkish @ 3.55
10 82.1% Italian_Bergamo + 17.9% Cypriot @ 3.55
11 64.8% Greek_Central + 35.2% French_Basque @ 3.58
12 70.5% Italian_Bergamo + 29.5% Italian_Sicilian @ 3.6
13 65.4% French_Basque + 34.6% Kurdish @ 3.66
14 59.8% Ashkenazy_Jew + 40.2% French_Basque @ 3.76
15 63.6% French_Basque + 36.4% Abkhasian @ 3.78
16 70.4% Italian_Bergamo + 29.6% Ashkenazy_Jew @ 3.84
17 59.6% Italian_Bergamo + 40.4% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.85
18 86.5% Italian_Bergamo + 13.5% Armenian @ 3.86
19 86.9% Italian_Bergamo + 13.1% Assyrian @ 3.94
20 85.8% Italian_Bergamo + 14.2% Lebanese_Druze @ 4.09
Yes, Croatians are the only Balkan population who’s paleo balkan ancestry comes from an HRV_MBA source. This population was identical to modern day northern Italians and carries western european drift which is lacking in the Mycenaean and BGR_IA samples. Central Balkan populations (Serbs, Bulgarians etc) score mostly BGR_IA, which is similar to the Mycenaean samples but with significantly more steppe ancestry, less farmer ancestry, and less direct CHG ancestry. Interestingly. There is a UKR_Cimmerian samples which is basically 65% farmer and 35% steppe which many balkanites score as well. Its closest modern populations are Greeks, Albanians, and Northern Italians but without any balto-slavic drift, incredible.
Greeks and Albanians mostly score Mycenaeans and BGR_IA. Mainland Greece received admixture from a CHG rich middle eastern population (something Assyrian-like, perhaps) before the Slavic migration. Albanians show some of this admixture as well, but usually less.
this sample is somewhat pre-indo-european, although he has indo european y-dna. those later samples from Dalmatia are like him + 30% YamnayaQuote:
Originally Posted by Feiichy
Hungarian Scythians are a probably better representation of Pannonians for most of the Bronze and Iron ages
Still, I am significantly closer to the East-Balkan sample than to the West-Balkan sample.Quote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
https://i.imgur.com/OZYT7h0.png
There are two possibilities:
1) southeastern Dinaric area (Herzegovina, Montenegro) had different Illyrian genetics than northwestern Dinaric area with that sample.
2) majority of my ancestors come from some area outside the Dinaric Alps - Kosovo, Moravian Serbia, Macedonia.
Explains why my family looks the way it does, I think. We look noticably more western European than other South Slavs, even many other Croats (not all of them have such admixture), and we have no Germanic and Celtic almost at all (I mean genetically). It comes from our native part.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolguy1
Personally i think that the northern illyrians and pannonians were close to the modern northern italian (due to the hallstadt admix probably) and the southern illyrians (montenegro, northern albanian) were similar to the Tuscan people. The Dacian-Thracian and Hellenic were similar to modern Abruzzo.
Someone could try this model for Croatians,Romanians,Bulgarians etc
Thraco-Hellenic:Abruzzo
North_Illyrian-Pannonian:Italian_Bergamo/Lombardy
Central/South_Illyrian:Italian_Tuscany
Slavic: Russian_Smolensk
Celto-Germanic: Dutch
He has common Gheg Albanian ydna too, and this culture was ancestral to Illyrians.Quote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
Dalmatian samples are more north, but not that radically. They still get North Italian, just with extra NW input.
My guess is since this sample was much more eastern geographically, so it probably has Thracian like admixture.
Dalmatian samples are purer ofcourse.
why wouldn't you be? read again what i said. most of Montenegrins and Bosniaks match BGR_IA better than HRV_IA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dušan
this is Davidski's model for that Italian sample which was probably an iron age North Balkan migrant in ItalyQuote:
Originally Posted by Feiichy
ITA_Proto-Villanovan
HRV_Vucedol 0.677±0.031
Yamnaya_RUS_Samara 0.323±0.031
Somebody should tell Davidski he uploaded wrong Vučedol sample in G25. One there is fully neolithic, it's not this sample that is on gedmatch.Quote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
There was neolithic burial on Vučedol location too (G2a) and he uploaded them instead of R1b real Vučedol sample. It has 0% steppe admixture.
Somebody should tell him to correct the mistake.
Ok, I understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by vbnetkhio
Fake Vučedol sample on G25 (actually Balkan neolithic from same location)
Target: HRV_Vucedol
Distance: 3.1323% / 0.03132340
93.8 Sardinian
5.6 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.6 Ju_hoan_North
Distance to: HRV_Vucedol
0.03163849 Sardinian
Can anybody reach out to him and say he should upload actual Vučedol R1b instead? There are 2 or 3 bronze age samples available, they are all good.