Map of Europe showing WHG, Baltic HG, Yamnaya and Neolithic ancestry

Target: Notjew_scaled
Distance: 5.1341% / 0.05134079
43.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
35.4 TUR_Barcin_N
18.2 Baltic_LVA_HG
1.6 Han
1.2 Levant_PPNB

If you’re not as Aryan as me you’re not white

Target: Dunai
Distance: 3.1114% / 0.03111400
41.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
40.6 TUR_Barcin_N
15.8 Baltic_LVA_HG
2.2 Han

Quote:

Originally Posted by aherne

25% ENF ancestry among Finns? This makes no sense... Not only that Finland was never in the path of ENF: it was populated by Mesolithic Hunter-Gatherers before Aryans came, but also it has lowest concentration in Europe (near absence, that is) of any ENF / West Asian phenotypes: almost no meds, alpines, dinarics, etc. As always, racial anthropology matches history much better than genetic mumbo-jumbo:)

Aryan aka "Steppe" ancestry is also over-inflated, Mesolithic HG extremely underestimated (judging how MUCH more common today are indigenous CM-derivative phenotypes than Corded). Perhaps the two should be taken together? Anyway, I don't see any value in these results:

- Southern Italians (Neapolitans, Calabrians) just SLIGHTLY less Aryan than French (25% vs 35%)... Former area cannot have, historically speaking (as confirmed by phenotypes) more than 10% influence: it was briefly invaded by Italics then Greeks started to build cities on the coast but not only those two were very mixed already (definitely not pred. Aryan to begin with), the bulk of the population remained more or less unaffected since pre-Italic times (hence Meds, Alpines, Dinarics and even Armenoids pretty much everywhere)

Why does Corded not match what we know Yamnaya looked like? Yamnaya were dark haired, dark eyed, and had darker skin than todays Europeans. They were also tall and robust not progressive like Corded.

Target: TimA_scaled
Distance: 1.6163% / 0.01616329
50.4 Levant_PPNB
23.0 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
11.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
7.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
3.0 Yoruba
2.6 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
1.0 MAR_Taforalt
0.6 Dinka
0.2 Han

Quote:

Originally Posted by MechtoidAfalouHG

Why does Corded not match what we know Yamnaya looked like? Yamnaya were dark haired, dark eyed, and had darker skin than todays Europeans. They were also tall and robust not progressive like Corded.

How do you know what Yamnaya looked like?

Quote:

Originally Posted by celticdragongod

How do you know what Yamnaya looked like?

skeletal remains and their genotype

Target: Adam_Scaled
Distance: 1.8371% / 0.01837133

34.8 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
31.8 MAR_Taforalt
8.8 TUR_Barcin_N
7.8 Levant_PPNB
7.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
3.6 WHG
3.0 Dinka
1.6 Gambian
1.6 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps

Why are you using TUR_Tepecik_Ciflik as a proxy for Neolithic Anatolians? None of those people entered Europe at all in the neolithic, no one with significant CHG/extra Levant admixture entered Europe before the Bronze Age.

You are inflating the actual neolithic Anatolian admixture in many southern Europeans, as they have a lot of extra, post-neolithic MENA admixture post EEFs(infact, the first farmers into Europe may've even been from a more western location in Anatolia than Barcin, maybe even from Greece and the border of Basal Eurasian admixed people and HGs was Macedonia, because the earliest farmers in Iberia, so likely some of the first, are missing the very minor CHG/Iran_N signal Barcin has, even if it's around 1-2%).

This is where Tepecik_Ciflik is, it's practically the Levant:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...Turkey.svg.png
(this is why treating EEF as some sort of relevant race or population is silly, because Anatolia and the Levant was just a cline, less WHG as you go east into Anatolia and the Levant)

Here's how they plot:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9XehAXmUJ...olians_PCA.png

Target: TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
Distance: 2.4239% / 0.02423947
79.2 TUR_Barcin_N
10.8 Levant_Natufian
10.0 GEO_CHG

Here is how some southern Euro groups score with the original model:

Spoiler!

Target: Italian_Campania
Distance: 1.4499% / 0.01449917
45.8 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
24.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
17.4 TUR_Barcin_N
5.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
4.6 Levant_PPNB
1.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
1.0 MAR_Taforalt
0.2 WHG

Target: Italian_Calabria
Distance: 1.4735% / 0.01473534
56.2 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
22.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
11.8 TUR_Barcin_N
5.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
2.0 MAR_Taforalt
1.8 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
0.4 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2_I8728
0.2 ETH_4500BP
0.2 Han

Target: Romanian
Distance: 3.0504% / 0.03050398
40.6 TUR_Barcin_N
37.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
11.8 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
9.2 Baltic_LVA_HG
0.8 Han

Target: Greek_Thessaly
Distance: 2.0052% / 0.02005160
38.0 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
33.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
25.4 TUR_Barcin_N
2.4 Baltic_LVA_HG
0.2 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2_I8728
0.2 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps

Here's what they score without Tepecik_Ciftlik:

Spoiler!

Target: Romanian
Distance: 3.1212% / 0.03121237
50.4 TUR_Barcin_N
39.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
8.6 Baltic_LVA_HG
1.2 Levant_PPNB
0.2 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2_I8728

Target: Greek_Thessaly
Distance: 2.2164% / 0.02216424
52.2 TUR_Barcin_N
30.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
10.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
3.6 Baltic_LVA_HG
2.8 Levant_PPNB
0.2 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Italian_Campania
Distance: 1.6738% / 0.01673828
44.8 TUR_Barcin_N
22.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
13.8 Levant_PPNB
13.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
4.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.0 WHG
0.6 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Italian_Calabria
Distance: 1.8066% / 0.01806627
45.8 TUR_Barcin_N
20.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
15.2 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
11.6 Levant_PPNB
3.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.6 MAR_Taforalt
0.8 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2_I8728
0.4 WHG

So, old model/new w/o Tepecik model Anatolian farmer %:
Romanian: 52.4%/50.4%
Calabria: 68%/45.8%
Campania: 63.2%/44.8%
Greek_Thessaly: 63.4%/52.2%

Should also include the other ancestries in the map, even though most Europeans don't have them, it's still relevant. No post-neolithic MENA begins at Basques and Central French.

Spoiler!

Target: French_Auvergne
Distance: 3.1202% / 0.03120158
52.0 TUR_Barcin_N
34.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
10.6 WHG
2.6 Baltic_LVA_HG

Quote:

Originally Posted by aherne

25% ENF ancestry among Finns? This makes no sense... Not only that Finland was never in the path of ENF: it was populated by Mesolithic Hunter-Gatherers before Aryans came, but also it has lowest concentration in Europe (near absence, that is) of any ENF / West Asian phenotypes: almost no meds, alpines, dinarics, etc. As always, racial anthropology matches history much better than genetic mumbo-jumbo:)

Aryan aka "Steppe" ancestry is also over-inflated, Mesolithic HG extremely underestimated (judging how MUCH more common today are indigenous CM-derivative phenotypes than Corded). Perhaps the two should be taken together? Anyway, I don't see any value in these results:

- Southern Italians (Neapolitans, Calabrians) just SLIGHTLY less Aryan than French (25% vs 35%)... Former area cannot have, historically speaking (as confirmed by phenotypes) more than 10% influence: it was briefly invaded by Italics then Greeks started to build cities on the coast but not only those two were very mixed already (definitely not pred. Aryan to begin with), the bulk of the population remained more or less unaffected since pre-Italic times (hence Meds, Alpines, Dinarics and even Armenoids pretty much everywhere)

Of course Finns have EEF, please stop doing drugs.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile...-axes_Q320.jpg
(Battle Axe culture in Finland)

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...weden_1250.png

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...815%29_en2.png
(but most Scandinavian admixture in Finns is from the Iron Age, not medieval Sweden or Imperial Sweden)

Also, Calabrians have 20% steppe admixture, people around Naples 22%, central French have 35%, N. French have 39%, those are all big enough differences.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nurzat

nope, there's Moldova and Moldova outliers, and the former is southern Moldovans afaik in G25, so the result is southern-shifted anyway, plus, I only show those 4 components, not any other one, some add to 98 some to less, as I cannot show the 22 components in the map, it is to show these 4 main sources of ancestry, which actually is 3 strong sources for almost all populations, individually anyone can check anything, you have the calc in the OP, the map is to show general tendencies, for Moldovans an average would probably be slughtly more northenrn than that with better sampling. 1% lower or highers is ridiculous to talk about, not the point of the map, it is about general picture, not individual populations, on which it is relevant where the highest and the lowest % are found on the continent (Basques, Sardinians, Balts for example)

The results for Finns are absolutely correct, there's no need to give any credence to his pseudo-science garbage.

Imagine thinking anyone in modern Europe can be unadmixed with any other components very common in Europeans. Finns are literally 35% Scandinavian(where EEFs did reach), Corded Ware ware did reach Finland, Finnic speakers aren't even from Finland but further south, where again, many Indo-European groups reached. Corded Ware did have significant EEF ancestry, even that guy's pseudo scientist anthropologists thought Corded Ware were a mix of Kurganoids and European farmers from Poland/Ukraine.

My semen are 100% WHG

Quote:

Originally Posted by grabielx

Target: Italian_Campania
Distance: 1.4499% / 0.01449917
45.8 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
24.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
17.4 TUR_Barcin_N
5.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
4.6 Levant_PPNB
1.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
1.0 MAR_Taforalt
0.2 WHG

Southern Italy is the textbook example of push and pull. Most of the Yamna is Italic or Germanic.

Sorry to tell you, but these calculations seem incorrect: where is the indigenous Mesolithic element here (1%: this is fucking ridiculous)? If you ever visited that region you will see its expression at least as (un)common as Corded... IMHO we have history written to our faces: maybe in the future these results will be more accurate but so far (unfortunately) good old racial anthropology yields better results

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.S.

I' like to see, how score Bronze and Iron Age Iberian samples. Some French ones score more than 2% MAR_Taforalt.

Never see a French with significative Iberomaurusien (70% levant 30% subsaharian).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flashball

Never see a French with significative Iberomaurusien (70% levant 30% subsaharian).

Iberomaurusian is not 70 percent levant and 30 percent sub saharan lmao

Some ancient French samples show a signal of MAR_Taforalt component, etc. It's no big deal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.S.

Some ancient French samples show a signal of MAR_Taforalt component, etc. It's no big deal.

I know some modern French do, but haven't seen it in any French_IA samples(and yes Taforalt is 70% MENA, 30% SSA, one flawed paper doesn't change that). Which French samples do you refer to?

the calculator is experimental and, like any calc I've seen, needs improvements. I am happy to learn things I didn't know, so thank you to those that took the time to add such details to the thread

Quote:

Originally Posted by aherne

Sorry to tell you, but these calculations seem incorrect: where is the indigenous Mesolithic element here (1%: this is fucking ridiculous)? If you ever visited that region you will see its expression at least as (un)common as Corded... IMHO we have history written to our faces: maybe in the future these results will be more accurate but so far (unfortunately) good old racial anthropology yields better results

actually I think you are partially right: our specific traits come from specific genes, not genome-wide picture, so if genome-wide mapping can tell us sometimes with great precision where we are from or in case we are a mix, what are our macro-components in terms of ancestry, it doesn't tell us what we may look like, and in the future maybe some tests could look at that as well, to be able to group people on a plot based on similar traits, alone or combined

Quote:

Originally Posted by XenophobicPrussian

I know some modern French do, but haven't seen it in any French_IA samples(and yes Taforalt is 70% MENA, 30% SSA, one flawed paper doesn't change that). Which French samples do you refer to?

One flawed paper according to who? Lmaoooo

Quote:

Originally Posted by aherne

As always, racial anthropology matches history much better than genetic mumbo-jumbo:)

Wrong, it is just that commercial DNA tests are not scientific they don't want to contradict any potentially wrong preconceived notions about customers identity they might have and G25 is amateur mentally retatarded slavic science. Alright, I am being a little too harsh on G25 but the truth is that is too fine-grained especially for modern populations.

So, who is the master of physical anthropology here ? Arguably xenophobic Prussian. He puts me in Wales/Cornwall/Devonshire Britain . So, you don't want more generalized qpAdm/admix results because it's ultra nerdy ? Perfect is the enemy of good enough :

MyTrueAncestry :

1. Southwest_English (4.205)
2. Southeast_English (4.275)
3. North_Dutch (4.390)
4. Danish (4.722)
5. West_Scottish (4.930)
6. Irish (5.014)
7. Orcadian (5.114)
8. North_German (6.151)

Ok, so the average Englishman is probably about 21 percent Celtic/Irish or whatever. However, being from SouthWest England there can be more Celtic input. MTA FTW , again:

30 % Celtic with rest various Germanic tribes e.g. Saxons, Danish vikings, Franks, Norwegian vikings etc..

Is it telling me nerd shit like how much Steppe, WHG, and Baltic HG etc...I am ? No ! However, who cares if G25 is wrong ? Ok, G25 is flexible and nerdy but not always correct so fuck it ! MTA can tell me how much I match to some samples in ancient Britain it seems , as well , but I won't paste it here.

Also , phenotype is only a subset of genes of the underlying genotype so you can't rely solely on old-school anthropology.

The truth is out there my man !

*edit , yeah go ahead clowns continue looking down your noses at MyTrueAncestry ya'll niggers is sleeping on MTA and straight trippin' *

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by XenophobicPrussian

I know some modern French do, but haven't seen it in any French_IA samples(and yes Taforalt is 70% MENA, 30% SSA, one flawed paper doesn't change that). Which French samples do you refer to?

To be honest, i used an old datasheet with outdated coordinates. When i check the MAR_Taforalt signal in the ancient French samples using the official Eurogenes Global25 datasheet

the signal is very weak.

Attachment 107573

nb: with Nurzat code/calculator

delete

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nurzat

nope, there's Moldova and Moldova outliers, and the former is southern Moldovans afaik in G25, so the result is southern-shifted anyway, plus, I only show those 4 components, not any other one, some add to 98 some to less, as I cannot show the 22 components in the map, it is to show these 4 main sources of ancestry, which actually is 3 strong sources for almost all populations, individually anyone can check anything, you have the calc in the OP, the map is to show general tendencies, for Moldovans an average would probably be slughtly more northenrn than that with better sampling. 1% lower or highers is ridiculous to talk about, not the point of the map, it is about general picture, not individual populations, on which it is relevant where the highest and the lowest % are found on the continent (Basques, Sardinians, Balts for example)

The former is formed of 32 samples from the North (around 5 outliers) and 10 from the South (around 5 outliers). It could be more Northern than the average would have been, since around 60% of the population lives in the Centre. But judging by K13 average compared to this one from G25, it should be pretty close anyway
Moldovan_o has one Moldovan/Romanian and the rest are a combination of Russians, Ukrainians and one Slavo-Gypsy mix. No idea why it's named that way. Should just be Moldovan_EastSlavic or something akin to that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesBond007

Wrong, it is just that commercial DNA tests are not scientific they don't want to contradict any potentially wrong preconceived notions about customers identity they might have and G25 is amateur mentally retatarded slavic science. Alright, I am being a little too harsh on G25 but the truth is that is too fine-grained especially for modern populations.

So, who is the master of physical anthropology here ? Arguably xenophobic Prussian. He puts me in Wales/Cornwall/Devonshire Britain . So, you don't want more generalized qpAdm/admix results because it's ultra nerdy ? Perfect is the enemy of good enough :

MyTrueAncestry :

1. Southwest_English (4.205)
2. Southeast_English (4.275)
3. North_Dutch (4.390)
4. Danish (4.722)
5. West_Scottish (4.930)
6. Irish (5.014)
7. Orcadian (5.114)
8. North_German (6.151)

Ok, so the average Englishman is probably about 21 percent Celtic/Irish or whatever. However, being from SouthWest England there can be more Celtic input. MTA FTW , again:

30 % Celtic with rest various Germanic tribes e.g. Saxons, Danish vikings, Franks, Norwegian vikings etc..

Is it telling me nerd shit like how much Steppe, WHG, and Baltic HG etc...I am ? No ! However, who cares if G25 is wrong ? Ok, G25 is flexible and nerdy but not always correct so fuck it ! MTA can tell me how much I match to some samples in ancient Britain it seems , as well , but I won't paste it here.

Also , phenotype is only a subset of genes of the underlying genotype so you can't rely solely on old-school anthropology.

The truth is out there my man !

*edit , yeah go ahead clowns continue looking down your noses at MyTrueAncestry ya'll niggers is sleeping on MTA and straight trippin' *

Celtic and Irish is not the same thing. You should know that now. MyTrueAncestry just uses Eurogenes K15 which you are always complaining is bad "Polack science" :). I wonder when that Reich study about Southeast England is coming out as there is a more southern pull there compared to the rest of the Isles populations.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-43712587

The facts at the moment though are no one really knows how much Celtic people influenced the dna of places like Ireland or England.

Irish and Celt is not the same thing, Celts were very different from each other. I think Gael is the best word to define an irish genetic component.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grace O'Malley

The facts at the moment though are no one really knows how much Celtic people influenced the dna of places like Ireland or England.

It was 50% according to that latest study, but these Celts were quite similar to the Beakers already there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

It was 50% according to that latest study, but these Celts were quite similar to the Beakers already there.

I would love to see that. Is there a link? Any comparison with the Celts from the Continent show no similarity with Irish, Scots, Welsh etc. Well very small anyway. A study would be hugely popular.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grace O'Malley

I would love to see that. Is there a link? Any comparison with the Celts from the Continent show no similarity with Irish, Scots, Welsh etc. Well very small anyway. A study would be hugely popular.

I mean this, you already saw it.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...n-MLBA-Britain

https://i.imgur.com/4kDPOll.jpg

btw, there are some continental samples (maybe not officially Celtic) which are close to the northern French and Welsh.

Code:

Distance to: DEU_Lech_EBA 0.02642402 French_Brittany 0.02804248 Welsh 0.02855813 Afrikaner 0.02858560 French_Pas-de-Calais 0.02899656 German 0.02901861 Belgian 0.03038943 English 0.03060798 Dutch 0.03119610 French_Nord 0.03181650 Scottish 0.03236684 Orcadian 0.03242401 English_Cornwall 0.03291270 Irish 0.03426555 French_Paris 0.03432736 French_Alsace 0.03433418 Danish 0.03527579 Austrian 0.03530170 Swiss_German 0.03552642 French_Seine-Maritime 0.03605778 Norwegian 0.03641125 Shetlandic 0.03904966 Icelandic 0.04153416 Swedish 0.04269079 French_Occitanie 0.04456186 Swiss_French Distance to: FRA_Grand_Est_EBA 0.02431596 French_Brittany 0.02466238 French_Pas-de-Calais 0.02661259 Welsh 0.02833026 English 0.02962285 Orcadian 0.02974823 English_Cornwall 0.03034658 Belgian 0.03067867 Scottish 0.03127889 Afrikaner 0.03171983 French_Nord 0.03181763 German 0.03223326 Irish 0.03248486 Dutch 0.03295790 French_Paris 0.03540602 Danish 0.03579982 French_Alsace 0.03619071 French_Seine-Maritime 0.03652764 Swiss_German 0.03658374 Norwegian 0.03735794 Icelandic 0.03897153 Shetlandic 0.03908693 French_Occitanie 0.04065019 Swedish 0.04134185 Austrian 0.04273436 French_Auvergne Distance to: DEU_Singen_EBA 0.02061259 French_Pas-de-Calais 0.02417396 Belgian 0.02441269 French_Paris 0.02460245 French_Nord 0.02572576 French_Brittany 0.02766818 French_Occitanie 0.02836288 Swiss_German 0.02888581 French_Alsace 0.02983799 Afrikaner 0.03107685 Welsh 0.03115207 French_Auvergne 0.03256697 German 0.03387438 English 0.03402049 English_Cornwall 0.03431569 Swiss_French 0.03468808 French_Seine-Maritime 0.03630033 Orcadian 0.03665006 Scottish 0.03685816 Dutch 0.03804175 Austrian 0.03868082 Irish 0.04091794 Spanish_Penedes 0.04110268 French_Provence 0.04161102 Italian_Aosta_Valley 0.04261172 Danish

I think the British Celtic invaders will be similar to these when they get published.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

I mean this, you already saw it.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/sh...n-MLBA-Britain

https://i.imgur.com/4kDPOll.jpg

btw, there are some continental samples (maybe not officially Celtic) which are close to the northern French and Welsh.

Code:

Distance to: DEU_Lech_EBA 0.02642402 French_Brittany 0.02804248 Welsh 0.02855813 Afrikaner 0.02858560 French_Pas-de-Calais 0.02899656 German 0.02901861 Belgian 0.03038943 English 0.03060798 Dutch 0.03119610 French_Nord 0.03181650 Scottish 0.03236684 Orcadian 0.03242401 English_Cornwall 0.03291270 Irish 0.03426555 French_Paris 0.03432736 French_Alsace 0.03433418 Danish 0.03527579 Austrian 0.03530170 Swiss_German 0.03552642 French_Seine-Maritime 0.03605778 Norwegian 0.03641125 Shetlandic 0.03904966 Icelandic 0.04153416 Swedish 0.04269079 French_Occitanie 0.04456186 Swiss_French Distance to: FRA_Grand_Est_EBA 0.02431596 French_Brittany 0.02466238 French_Pas-de-Calais 0.02661259 Welsh 0.02833026 English 0.02962285 Orcadian 0.02974823 English_Cornwall 0.03034658 Belgian 0.03067867 Scottish 0.03127889 Afrikaner 0.03171983 French_Nord 0.03181763 German 0.03223326 Irish 0.03248486 Dutch 0.03295790 French_Paris 0.03540602 Danish 0.03579982 French_Alsace 0.03619071 French_Seine-Maritime 0.03652764 Swiss_German 0.03658374 Norwegian 0.03735794 Icelandic 0.03897153 Shetlandic 0.03908693 French_Occitanie 0.04065019 Swedish 0.04134185 Austrian 0.04273436 French_Auvergne Distance to: DEU_Singen_EBA 0.02061259 French_Pas-de-Calais 0.02417396 Belgian 0.02441269 French_Paris 0.02460245 French_Nord 0.02572576 French_Brittany 0.02766818 French_Occitanie 0.02836288 Swiss_German 0.02888581 French_Alsace 0.02983799 Afrikaner 0.03107685 Welsh 0.03115207 French_Auvergne 0.03256697 German 0.03387438 English 0.03402049 English_Cornwall 0.03431569 Swiss_French 0.03468808 French_Seine-Maritime 0.03630033 Orcadian 0.03665006 Scottish 0.03685816 Dutch 0.03804175 Austrian 0.03868082 Irish 0.04091794 Spanish_Penedes 0.04110268 French_Provence 0.04161102 Italian_Aosta_Valley 0.04261172 Danish

I think the British Celtic invaders will be similar to these when they get published.

I would like to see that come out in an actual study with more details and what populations they think caused this. Also it is only a part of Britain. It's an interesting catch from the talk but no study yet. Thanks anyway as it sounds very interesting.

Target: Leto_scaled
Distance: 5.4744% / 0.05474444

44.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
30.0 TUR_Barcin_N
20.2 Baltic_LVA_HG
3.6 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
1.2 Han
0.2 Levant_PPNB

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grace O'Malley

Celtic and Irish is not the same thing. You should know that now. MyTrueAncestry just uses Eurogenes K15 which you are always complaining is bad "Polack science" :). I wonder when that Reich study about Southeast England is coming out as there is a more southern pull there compared to the rest of the Isles populations.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-43712587

The facts at the moment though are no one really knows how much Celtic people influenced the dna of places like Ireland or England.

Is that the reason why you dropped Celtic identity altogether? I thought it was important for an authentic Irish identity (not for those who would call a Bangladeshi living in Ireland Irish).

What was the only place called Celtica, ie, The Celtic by the Ancients?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leto

Is that the reason why you dropped Celtic identity altogether? I thought it was important for an authentic Irish identity (not for those who would call a Bangladeshi living in Ireland Irish).

Do you mean me personally? I'd rather use the term Gaelic. I'm not really a believer pan-Celticity. I think the Celts were obviously quite different and I do think the term was just used by Romans to call many different groups Celtic. I've an open mind though and I've changed my thoughts many times on the subject. Definitely with genetics I'm not hung up on whether a population is Celtic or not. I think the Irish are Gaels though in culture and ethnicity because Gaelic just describes the people who speak or spoke a Gaelic language. It is very specific whereas Celtic is so broad.

I'm always looking forward to more studies that sheds some more light on the topic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grace O'Malley

Do you mean me personally? I'd rather use the term Gaelic. I'm not really a believer pan-Celticity. I think the Celts were obviously quite different and I do think the term was just used by Romans to call many different groups Celtic. I've an open mind though and I've changed my thoughts many times on the subject. Definitely with genetics I'm not hung up on whether a population is Celtic or not. I think the Irish are Gaels though in culture and ethnicity because Gaelic just describes the people who speak or spoke a Gaelic language. It is very specific whereas Celtic is so broad.

I'm always looking forward to more studies that sheds some more light on the topic.

I see. You're probably right. The thing is that Celts are long gone in continental Europe, except for Brittany. Switzerland has some remnants of Celticity though, as far as I know. But they're Germanic and Romance speakers anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

https://i.imgur.com/4kDPOll.jpg

CMs were admixed by EHG (let say at least some 8%) what effects in WHG.
Then this admixed WHGeans were autosomally in 90% replaced by farmerian DNA.
Then this was in 90% replaced by Indoeuropeans stage 1.
Then this was replaced in 50% by Indoeuropeans stage 2.
Then these were in different degrees replaced and admixed by other Indoeuropeans couple of times.

But here are people who still argue, that original C&I-folks autosomal is somehow still relevant in the population... :picard2:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leto

I see. You're probably right. The thing is that Celts are long gone in continental Europe, except for Brittany. Switzerland has some remnants of Celticity though, as far as I know. But they're Germanic and Romance speakers anyway.

Yes Brittany is interesting but appears to have more affinity with the Insular Celts i.e. Cornish and Welsh and their language is closest to Cornish. Genetic studies as well back that link up with the Insular Celts. At the moment there is just not enough information out there on ancient populations like the Celts. No recent studies have been published on the topic. It would be great if there are some surprises in the studies but from what I can see people like the Irish owe a lot of their genetics to Bronze Age populations. It makes sense that some Continental Celts came in or possibly Celts that came to Britain and then went on to Ireland. I'd love to see something published this year but Covid has slowed everything down.

Target: Kaspias_dad_scaled
Distance: 2.3375% / 0.02337542
33.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
28.2 TUR_Barcin_N
12.6 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
8.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.2 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
8.0 Levant_PPNB
1.0 WHG

Target: Kaspias_scaled
Distance: 2.1118% / 0.02111752
41.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
31.8 TUR_Barcin_N
9.4 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
9.2 Levant_PPNB
4.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
3.4 Baltic_LVA_HG

Target: Kaspias_mom_subtracted
Distance: 3.0139% / 0.03013862
45.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
35.0 TUR_Barcin_N
12.4 Levant_PPNB
7.4 Baltic_LVA_HG

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rethel

C&I-folks

who?

Target: VangosH_scaled
Distance: 3.7405% / 0.03740491 | ADC: 0.25x RC
65.0 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
30.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
4.6 Baltic_LVA_HG

Quote:

Originally Posted by vbnetkhio

who?

C1-people and I-people, the original, pre-WHG, cromagnon-autosomal bearers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rethel

CMs were admixed by EHG (let say at least some 8%) what effects in WHG.
Then this admixed WHGeans were autosomally in 90% replaced by farmerian DNA.
Then this was in 90% replaced by Indoeuropeans stage 1.
Then this was replaced in 50% by Indoeuropeans stage 2.
Then these were in different degrees replaced and admixed by other Indoeuropeans couple of times.

But here are people who still argue, that original C&I-folks autosomal is somehow still relevant in the population... :picard2:

Almost got it all right, except the first step :D

You can't model WHG as Paleo HG + EHG but you can do it the other way with some specific ones like Afontova Gora.

The rest is more or less what really happened, different stages of various IE repeated replacements pretty much everywhere but with substantial absorbition of local farmers in the process, from the original Steppe. Bell Beaker is a mix of Yamnaya with MN/LN types, like GAC or other local farming communities, which itself had absorbed some remnants of mesolithic HG's too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petalpusher

except the first step

Nope. It is correct.

Quote:

You can't model WHG as Paleo HG + EHG

Not only can, but it is the only way to define it.
In mesolithic there were still pure CM people, pre-WHG living side by side with WHG like.