Indigenous Balkan I2a1 in southern Albania

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03-02-2017, 02:47 PM
Lek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër

0% I2a1b among my DNA relatives, which is why I plot like a civilized ancient beast.

:D

This is where you plot according to Skerdilaid

http://oi63.tinypic.com/fdrjwy.jpg

When the gashi was put earlier before he plotted north east of me. These plotting maps are bullshit.
03-02-2017, 02:52 PM
Wrong

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceT

This is where you plot according to Skerdilaid

http://oi63.tinypic.com/fdrjwy.jpg

When the gashi was put earlier before he plotted north east of me. These plotting maps are bullshit.

Indeed.

Could someone make a map for Gedrosia K9 ASI results? Would be interesting to see how different it looks.

Kurt despite being from more northern areas plots just at me.
03-02-2017, 02:52 PM
Laberia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scholarios Chiotis

Sure, but that 23% Slavic dna combined with

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/0w...Z=w599-h469-no

and this

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/kJ...O=w599-h416-no

and this

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/oz...X=w539-h305-no

plus this

http://macedonia.kroraina.com/seli_s...ish_slavic.png

and (old phylogenic name) map of i2a1b

http://i.imgur.com/YIV0TQD.jpg

So these provide some perspective, don't you agree? All the objections in TA can't really stop me from thinking.... hmmmm. that's weird. Amirite or amirite?

OK Scholarios, i can start to explain one by one why your pages are wrong.
But i want to repeat again the final question. What's happened to all this slavs. Were this people expelled as bubu said or assimilated? When and how happened this process? You can not ignore this questions.
03-02-2017, 02:53 PM
Dema

Anyways i seem also not to have any I2a1 din relative close but i havent gone thru all of them. I noticed this earlier since i checked some of Ydnas that were done by my matches on Family Finder.
Closest Serb that i match is E-L117, then there is another with R-m269 (that is R1a right?), Then there is one more with N-P189. Then another with R-YP611 is that Albo R1b or hmm?

Then there is one more distant Serb with R-Z283, U5mtdna. Found one with I-L160 tho, he seems very far away, i think he is first I i seen among relatives also he has J1b1a1 mtdna.
03-02-2017, 02:59 PM
Skerdilaid

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scholarios Chiotis

For Tosks, maybe you are right. (though the Arbereshe studies show a lot of I2 and R1a) On Northern Greece, Battaglia did, and I think some others. It seems to me that Northern Greeks are strangely the most tested. I think Catgeorge posted those here very recently.

And it isn't just that. Look at the Greek family dna projects, this clade is found a lot there. Even if it is unorganized, it seems obvious to me. Probably some of it was even brought by Arvanites :cool:

Arbereshe do not represent the Tosk population in southern Albania, in majority, specifically the tested settlements, migrated there from Greece.
03-02-2017, 03:10 PM
Lek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër

Indeed.

Could someone make a map for Gedrosia K9 ASI results? Would be interesting to see how different it looks.

Kurt despite being from more northern areas plots just at me.

On 23andme he plotted totally different. He scores more Balkan on 23andme than any other Albanian ive seen. DNA land he also gets 100% Balkan like me.
03-02-2017, 03:11 PM
Wrong

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceT

On 23andme he plotted totally different. He scores more Balkan on 23andme than any other Albanian ive seen. DNA land he also gets 100% Balkan like me.

Would you say the little northwestern Euro admix I have on DNA land pulls me north of you guys?

In other scenarios I'd say the Balkan components pull differently, I may have some more South Balkan admixture in my DNA land, but who knows?
03-02-2017, 03:14 PM
Dema

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dema

Anyways i seem also not to have any I2a1 din relative close but i havent gone thru all of them. I noticed this earlier since i checked some of Ydnas that were done by my matches on Family Finder.
Closest Serb that i match is E-L117, then there is another with R-m269 (that is R1a right?), Then there is one more with N-P189. Then another with R-YP611 is that Albo R1b or hmm?

Then there is one more distant Serb with R-Z283, U5mtdna. Found one with I-L160 tho, he seems very far away, i think he is first I i seen among relatives also he has J1b1a1 mtdna.

So ill just answer to myself as i googled it up, so R-m269 seems to be R1b, and I-L160 Sardinian
03-02-2017, 03:16 PM
Lek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër

Would you say the little northwestern Euro admix I have on DNA land would pull me north of you guys?

I'd say the Balkan components pull differently, I may have some more South Balkan admixture in my DNA land, but who knows?

I dont know. I just think you wouldnt plot where you plot In that map. Neither you, kurt or gashi.
03-02-2017, 03:21 PM
Herr Abubu

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scholarios Chiotis

Sure, but that 23% Slavic dna combined with

23% is the minimum. You have different studies with different numbers, all higher than that. Moreover, the Slavs living in Epirus wouldn't have been exclusively I2-Din and R1a, but other haplogroups as well. Meaning that it's certain that many of Laberia's ancestors were singing iso-polyphony in a squatting position wearing Adidas track pants.
03-02-2017, 03:24 PM
Dema

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceT

I dont know. I just think you wouldnt plot where you plot In that map. Neither you, kurt or gashi.

Bro i think ur too much into autosomal conspiracy theories :D I mean we can try other calcs why not, also its not wonder if other calc will show different results, but we should still as a group plot together.
Also dont ruin my trip for ploting so good! MR. my closest autosomal DNA relative : D
03-02-2017, 04:28 PM
Lek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dema

Bro i think ur too much into autosomal conspiracy theories :D I mean we can try other calcs why not, also its not wonder if other calc will show different results, but we should still as a group plot together.
Also dont ruin my trip for ploting so good! MR. my closest autosomal DNA relative : D

Lol. Whats your problem? Youre stupid as fuck obviously to call it a conspiracy. Stupid as fuck like most Albanians on here getting north west euro, central euro, slavic, jewish, african on DNA test. How does plotting with them mean anything if its accurate?

They cannot plot there. How the fuck can they plot with cretans?

When petalpusher put the gashi on the map he plotted next to me. You really must be blind. Kurt on 23andme plotted West of where leki is. Idont give a shit if i ruin your trip. I guess you have insecurities. Never said we wouldnt plot together dude. Just different. You plot where you plot based on the different mixture you are. Sardinian will pull you south west. Slavic will pull you north /east + south euro Balkan, north west etc etc how can you not fucking understand this. Tell me, where would the least mixed Albanian plot? Cos most of you get more mixed results than me. Except few like ylla and leap who get less east euro but more mena on ftdna. But leap gets much less balkan than both of us.

Kurt gets less mixed results too. If we are both pred. Balkan we should plot very close me and him. And every other north albo who gets 90% + balkan.

If he did ftdna and it goes max 1000 years back, how much east euro would he score if his paternal ancestors were slavs? Surely he should still be more north than that. Hes from north albania. . 1000 years ago his ancestors must of been more northern plotting but was pulled very south from Balkan admix. And this if the east euro is slavic. So they became pred. Balkan. Where this mena came from too?

Hop off my dick a little bit. Anyone who disagrees with me can suck my dick. Youre all mixed as fuck anyway like every other balkanite, so were your ancestors before that, but you have this dream of pure bloodedness. I dont give a shit if im mixed. Nothing bad about it. I was just interested to see how much of a genetic continuity there is when i came to this.

Not my problem i ruined your autosomal dreams. And the fuclkibg pseudoscience.

.go count your i2a relatives and r1a on ftdna now.

Youre all fucking faggots. I despise most of you. Arguing over whos more lighter while calling others gypsies but getting mixed DNA tests.

Shit man i dont phantasize of albos looking like Scandinavians.
03-02-2017, 04:34 PM
Voskos

the fuck? where do you see anyone plotting with cretans?
03-02-2017, 04:40 PM
Dema

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceT

Lol. Whats your problem? Youre stupid as fuck obviously to call it a conspiracy. Stupid as fuck like most Albanians on here getting north west euro, central euro, slavic, jewish, african on DNA test. How does plotting with them mean anything if its accurate?

They cannot plot there. How the fuck can they plot with cretans?

When petalpusher put the gashi on the map he plotted next to me. You really must be blind. Kurt on 23andme plotted West of where leki is. Idont give a shit if i ruin your trip. I guess you have insecurities. Never said we wouldnt plot together dude. Just different. You plot where you plot based on the different mixture you are. Sardinian will pull you south west. Slavic will pull you north /east + south euro Balkan, north west etc etc how can you not fucking understand this. Tell me, where would the least mixed Albanian plot? Cos most of you get more mixed results than me. Except few like ylla and leap who get less east euro but more mena on ftdna. But leap gets much less balkan than both of us.

Kurt gets less mixed results too. If we are both pred. Balkan we should plot very close me and him. And every other north albo who gets 90% + balkan.

If he did ftdna and it goes max 1000 years back, how much east euro would he score if his paternal ancestors were slavs? Surely he should still be more north than that. Hes from north albania. . 1000 years ago his ancestors must of been more northern plotting but was pulled very south from Balkan admix. And this if the east euro is slavic. So they became pred. Balkan. Where this mena came from too?

Hop off my dick a little bit. Anyone who disagrees with me can suck my dick. Youre all mixed as fuck anyway like every other balkanite, so were your ancestors before that, but you have this dream of pure bloodedness. I dont give a shit if im mixed. Nothing bad about it. I was just interested to see how much of a genetic continuity there is when i came to this.

Not my problem i ruined your autosomal dreams. And the fuclkibg pseudoscience.

.go count your i2a relatives and r1a on ftdna now.

Youre all fucking faggots. I despise most of you. Arguing over whos more lighter while calling others gypsies but getting mixed DNA tests.

Shit man i dont phantasize of albos looking like Scandinavians.

lol that part was a joke bro, i mean i dont give a fuck how i plot with others and nor i have some special trip about it except we can have some fantasies and jokes with it.
Its obvious that you take this much more serious and these last few days your brain is just boiling over it, even tho i dont understand why?

As for other part of msg i see that you are in rage again so i wont even comment it, i would just advice you not to ban yourself again, stay calm, breath normally. It will go away :D :thumb001:
03-02-2017, 04:54 PM
HellLander87

Albanians are a FAKE , FAILING and quickly FADING AWAY people. 70% of able bodied albanians live abroad. At best their grandchildren will develop some psychological traumas if they ever learn that they have albanian roots. At the same time in Albania gypsy population increases rapidly and there is HUGE intermarriage between the very different tosks and ghegs.
03-02-2017, 05:01 PM
The Illyrian Warrior

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scholarios Chiotis

Why is there I2a1 in South Albania? Well, you see son, when a man loves a woman....

Says a guy whose nation is cucked by all, Slavs, Albanians, Vlachs, Turks. :D

Some of I2b comes from assimilated Bulgarians, not that they took Albanian bride and turned magically Albanian right after, if anything this may be the case for Albanian men but never have stumble upon any article about opposite.
03-02-2017, 05:17 PM
Dema

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrF3WPi_7uI&t=388s
03-02-2017, 05:17 PM
The Illyrian Warrior

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sorcelow

UPDATE:

From this study, Bosch, E.; Calafell, F.; González-Neira, A.; Flaiz, C; Mateu, E; Scheil, HG; Huckenbeck, W; Efremovska, L; et al. (2006). "Paternal and maternal lineages in the Balkans show a homogeneous landscape over linguistic barriers, except for the isolated Aromuns". Annals of Human Genetics, the i2a1 in southern Albania is due to the Vlachs, some groups have over 40% of it. But I still find it strange as to why they have such high levels of it, regarding their proximity to Croatia and Bosnia.

This makes more sense then associating I2b with Slavs (I made a mistake too) given that Vlachs were very well distributed across Southern Albania also intermarried with Albanians.

Herzegovina region where's the I2b hotspot was historically a Vlach settlement hotspot.
03-02-2017, 05:21 PM
Voskos

Vlachs=Dacians mixed with Goths,Romans and Slavs. The term vlach is very derogatory.
03-02-2017, 06:34 PM
Dema

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thevillager

Vlachs=Dacians mixed with Goths,Romans and Slavs. The term vlach is very derogatory.

Vlach has two meaning one is how Slavs called the population they found when arrived on Balkan, including Albanians.
Others is more proper one, Aromun. They are Roman - Illyrian - Slavic mix and their language comes out of Latin just as Romanian does. Aromanian and Romanian languages have split one from another in 9th century.

This is what wikipedia says about etymology: The word "Vlach" is of Germanic origin, an early loanword into Proto-Slavic from Germanic *Walhaz ("foreigner" or "stranger") and used by ancient Germanic peoples for their Romance-speaking and (Romanized) Celtic neighbours.

Also Bosnjaks use it to offend Serbs:

in Bosnia and Herzegovina ("Vlah", plural "Vlasi") when referring to highlanders and shepherds (often, in earlier times, regardless of religious adherence even) of Dinarides area; later, depending on context, it also became a derogatory term used to label ethnic Serbs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlachs#Etymology
03-02-2017, 08:11 PM
Lek

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dema

Bro i think ur too much into autosomal conspiracy theories :D I mean we can try other calcs why not, also its not wonder if other calc will show different results, but we should still as a group plot together.
Also dont ruin my trip for ploting so good! MR. my closest autosomal DNA relative : D

This is the same Gashi/Nilotik on that map done by petalpusher with same calc. I have checked hundred times the calc he sent me. Its eurogenes k15. He plots right next to me. Hes the circle right next to my name dude. East of me.

https://s30.postimg.org/4f4bm1xlr/k15icet2.jpg

But on that other map him, Kurt and xhak bauer plot next to Cretans. Sorry for ruining your dreams. Never said you wouldnt plot where you plot. But most likely it is wrong. You should be more baltic shifted while im north sea shifted. WE would all probably plot closer if done correctly. That limaj dude must be wrong too.

Xhak bauer and kurt im guessing would plot similar to me and Nilotik / Gashi on that map. We were added there by petalpusher. The rest have been done by someone else.
03-02-2017, 08:27 PM
safinator

Can someone send me the map and the link to do the map calculation?

I've around 50 samples of Albos from Gedmatch so i can do it.
03-02-2017, 08:34 PM
Skerdilaid

Quote:

Originally Posted by safinator

Can someone send me the map and the link to do the map calculation?

I've around 50 samples of Albos from Gedmatch so i can do it.

Here you go: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/sho...ng-coordinates
03-02-2017, 08:40 PM
Skerdilaid

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceT

This is the same Gashi/Nilotik on that map done by petalpusher with same calc. I have checked hundred times the calc he sent me. Its eurogenes k15. He plots right next to me. Hes the circle right next to my name dude. East of me.

https://s30.postimg.org/4f4bm1xlr/k15icet2.jpg

But on that other map him, Kurt and xhak bauer plot next to Cretans. Sorry for ruining your dreams. Never said you wouldnt plot where you plot. But most likely it is wrong. You should be more baltic shifted while im north sea shifted. WE would all probably plot closer if done correctly. That limaj dude must be wrong too.

Xhak bauer and kurt im guessing would plot similar to me and Nilotik / Gashi on that map. We were added there by petalpusher. The rest have been done by someone else.

I could have made a mistake, so we will see when Saf does his map. Can you in the mean time post the map petalpusher did for you, and also the components he used for Gashi and Kurt?
03-02-2017, 08:41 PM
Dema

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceT

Lol. Whats your problem? Youre stupid as fuck obviously to call it a conspiracy. Stupid as fuck like most Albanians on here

So i have some time now and i can give you another reply, i hope that you chilled out now and we can normally talk since i always like to give people second chance, and especially since i know how sensitive you are are i didn't want to hurt your feelings. But on the other hand when i disagreed with you and it was in a friendly manner you didn't hesitate to instantly become cruel and savage there and start using mindless insults.
I think at least what you should do is apology for this words, because i am not one of your Norwegian Nigger friends that you use to fuck around and talk like that. If i show respect to you, that is minimum what i require back. And especially not undeserved disrespect. Therefore i hope you understand that you crossed a line there. And that behavior is not acceptable. You could say your arguments even without insults.

Your arguments about Kurt and what Albanians get like N African or Jewish and that based on similar components is totally baseless and i hope you are not that stupid (word you used) that you cannot see that. Because its not how its work, if you and whoever have similar components on some calculator, it does not mean that you two are connected thru recent ancestor. Also as i told you if you chilled out and if you ready for apology we can continue this.
I know you have some personal issue with this and something about your ancestry but this was not even thread about your autosomal but about I2a in South Albania.

Also no one is saying that Albanians look like Scandinavians and is not representing Albanians like that. That is just BS! But i cannot continue to argument with you because of your unnecessary behavior few moments ago, and i think you need to clean that shit first!
03-02-2017, 10:54 PM
Scholarios

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Illyrian Warrior

Says a guy whose nation is cucked by all, Slavs, Albanians, Vlachs, Turks. :D

Some of I2b comes from assimilated Bulgarians, not that they took Albanian bride and turned magically Albanian right after, if anything this may be the case for Albanian men but never have stumble upon any article about opposite.

It is not an accusation or something, I have said similar things about Greeks. I am sure the ethnic symbiosis and assimilation was/is as complicated in Albania as anywhere else.
03-02-2017, 10:58 PM
Loki

I2 is not Slavic.
03-02-2017, 11:02 PM
Scholarios

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loki

I2 is not Slavic.

it's not slavic, I2a1b was brought to south balkans by slavic-speakers.
03-02-2017, 11:22 PM
Wrong

Quote:

Originally Posted by IceT

This is the same Gashi/Nilotik on that map done by petalpusher with same calc. I have checked hundred times the calc he sent me. Its eurogenes k15. He plots right next to me. Hes the circle right next to my name dude. East of me.

https://s30.postimg.org/4f4bm1xlr/k15icet2.jpg

But on that other map him, Kurt and xhak bauer plot next to Cretans. Sorry for ruining your dreams. Never said you wouldnt plot where you plot. But most likely it is wrong. You should be more baltic shifted while im north sea shifted. WE would all probably plot closer if done correctly. That limaj dude must be wrong too.

Xhak bauer and kurt im guessing would plot similar to me and Nilotik / Gashi on that map. We were added there by petalpusher. The rest have been done by someone else.

The C. Greek is Central Greek according to Gedmatch, I checked now.

This is the only calculator that puts me this far south. The scaling of this could be wrong, I don't know.
03-02-2017, 11:40 PM
Loki

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scholarios Chiotis

it's not slavic, I2a1b was brought to south balkans by slavic-speakers.

It was in the Balkans even before the arrival of Slavic speakers. It is native.
03-02-2017, 11:42 PM
Skerdilaid

Ok, I checked again and the inconsistency seems to be with the calculator that calculates x and y axis: http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15.htm

I basically retried my results again just to see how accurate they are and it placed me on the same spot where Xhak Bauer and Kurt are. What we are seeing there is two sub-clusters because they were done at different times. Don't waste your time with it, Saf.
03-02-2017, 11:50 PM
Scholarios

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loki

It was in the Balkans even before the arrival of Slavic speakers. It is native.

Sorry Lokester, that's just not true. See previous details in this thread. It wasn't in Albania or Greece...maybe if by Balkans you mean Romania, its possible.
03-02-2017, 11:59 PM
Wrong

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skerdilaid

Ok, I checked again and the inconsistency seems to be with the calculator that calculates x and y axis: http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15.htm

I basically retried my results again just to see how accurate they are and it placed me on the same spot where Xhak Bauer and Kurt are. What we are seeing there is two sub-clusters because they were done at different times. Don't waste your time with it, Saf.

Ok, now it makes sense :D

Guess I am inside the Albo-clusterclub afterall :D
03-03-2017, 12:12 AM
Loki

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scholarios Chiotis

Sorry Lokester, that's just not true. See previous details in this thread. It wasn't in Albania or Greece...maybe if by Balkans you mean Romania, its possible.

What concrete proof do you have?
03-03-2017, 12:37 AM
Dick

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loki

What concrete proof do you have?

Apparently the theory is this; The I2a1b-L621 subclade seems to correlate with the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...utline_Map.png

These people were "Indo-Europeanized" like most European cultures dating from that period. Most admins from ftdna will not say that a certain subclade belongs to a certain meta-ethnicity but to a culture. Maybe due to PCness or whatever although one can construct other explanations, involving later migrations, etc. such as the Slavic migrations to the Balkans for this specific subclade. For example, when I did the Big Y I was told by ftdna admins that my subclade belonged to the Jasdorf culture, not a specific meta-ethnicity. Constructing other explanations regarding meta-ethnicities etc happens more on forums like this one or anthrogenica etc.
03-03-2017, 12:45 AM
Skerdilaid

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loki

What concrete proof do you have?

Here is the proof, and all one needs to see: a Polak, Lithuanian, Ukranian, Greek and a Serbian sharing TMRCA 2200ybp: https://yfull.com/tree/I-CTS10228/
03-03-2017, 12:46 AM
Skerdilaid

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xhak Bauër

Ok, now it makes sense :D

Guess I am inside the Albo-clusterclub afterall :D

You're normal after all :D
03-03-2017, 12:47 AM
Wrong

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skerdilaid

You're normal after all :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PelUZruMw-s
03-03-2017, 12:55 AM
Loki

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skerdilaid

Here is the proof, and all one needs to see: a Polak, Lithuanian, Ukranian, Greek and a Serbian sharing TMRCA 2200ybp: https://yfull.com/tree/I-CTS10228/

Single individuals sharing Y-DNA doesn't mean anything. I am E-V13 and it doesn't make me an Albanian.

There is zero evidence that I2 was brought by Slavic-speakers to the Balkans... only wannabe smart-asses who try to sell their opinions off as facts. Don't believe them.
03-03-2017, 12:55 AM
Loki

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick

Apparently the theory is this; The I2a1b-L621 subclade seems to correlate with the Cucuteni-Trypillian culture.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...utline_Map.png

These people were "Indo-Europeanized" like most European cultures dating from that period. Most admins from ftdna will not say that a certain subclade belongs to a certain meta-ethnicity but to a culture. Maybe due to PCness or whatever although one can construct other explanations, involving later migrations, etc. such as the Slavic migrations to the Balkans for this specific subclade. For example, when I did the Big Y I was told by ftdna admins that my subclade belonged to the Jasdorf culture, not a specific meta-ethnicity. Constructing other explanations regarding meta-ethnicities etc happens more on forums like this one or anthrogenica etc.

Looks more like Sarmato-Scythians then.

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