Is my mother ''German'' actually Germanised Slovenian?

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Originally Posted by SharpFork

If so which historical border does the North-West/South German division follow?

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Two: Roman Limes (in the north-west) and Celtic settlement area (in the north-east):

https://i.imgur.com/zGyIbh5.png

Roman Limes (red line) and approximate northern border of Celtic settlement areas:

https://i.imgur.com/ipPgg8t.jpg

^^^
And dialectal divisions (High German vs. Low German) as well, but this is rather coincident.

Because according to modern linguists, High German expanded north at the cost of Low German only during the Middle Ages - and it stopped expanding close to the genetic border, which is interesting, maybe genetic predispositions to certain types of pronunciation played a role?

E.g. Afro-Americans pronounce English in an "African-sounding" way, maybe due to genetics.

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Originally Posted by Samnium

I think like in Germany there's a NW/SW-SE gap clearly.

See where people from Lyon in north plot, they are all north of the "French" average whereas southern french are either more southern or equally southern than it.



I think that Burgundy is more southern shifted than French Switzerland that borders Allemanic Switzerland, there's a barrier between these two regions called Jura, and Vosges in the north of Burgundy. I would go for the same conclusion for High-Savoy :

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...90/unknown.png

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Ok, with new French academic and north Italian samples (some from Gedmatch too). Correspondence Analysis Plot in K36.

Burgundy is indeed closer to Central France. Franche-Comte which is not surprise is close to French Swiss. Savoie is rather south shifted.
Alsace is nearly like German Swiss. Lorraine like Luxembourg. Saarland is tiny reference, probably should be more close to Rheinland with more samples.
Wallons here are not close to Normandy but Hauts de France in reality.

Distance to SW France is exagerated because I zoomed plot for seeing longer names.

https://i.imgur.com/N7ArEmv.png

And dendrogram for aforementioned region

https://i.imgur.com/q2k8LxN.png

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Originally Posted by Peterski

And dialectal divisions (High German vs. Low German) as well, but this is rather coincident.

Because according to modern linguists, High German expanded north at the cost of Low German only during the Middle Ages - and it stopped expanding close to the genetic border, which is interesting, maybe genetic predispositions to certain types of pronunciation played a role?

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I don't think the genetic argument for pronunciation makes sense, because both dialectla groups changed considerably from original pronunciation in different ways, in any case from which originial border did the northern expansion of High German happen?

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Originally Posted by Peterski

Post her DNA Land. Does she have German matches on GEDmatch or elsewhere?

Her DNA Land shows 0% NW Euro?

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Actually she gets a little 3% NW Euro, my father gets much more :laugh:
https://i.imgur.com/7D7g4KW.png

14% Finnish, where is that coming from? :lightbul:

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Originally Posted by Peterski

Nope, there is no big difference between South-West and South-East Germany (Bavaria).

Slavic influence starts in Thuringia and is immediately very strong (already in Thuringia).

There is some Slavic influence in Obefranken, but it is not part of "historical Bavaria".

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Germany can be divided into three main genetic clusters:

- North-Western
- Southern (both SW and SE)
- Eastern (starts in Thuringia)

Thuringer Wald divides Eastern and Southern clusters:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...inger_Wald.png

Border between NW and Eastern clusters is in Mecklenburg.

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Intresting as I do remember finding Germans from Köln, Mainz much more abundant (like twice) in alien faces (that would be outright foreign looking here( and types as I can reminisce from my trips there than those in Berlin, Leipzig etc.

There's also the Uerdinger line
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...uher_Linie.png
It's separating Platt-Deutsch/Dutch to middle german. "Ich" becomes "Ik" and "Machen" becomes "Maken". What's interesting is that this shift occurs also in Langue d'Oil. If you continue the Uerdinger line in Belgium, cutting Wallonia in two part then it goes on in France where you get the Joret Line, you have the same division. "Echapper" becomes "Escaper" (like in English), "Jambe" becomes "Gambe", "Chat" becomes "Cat" (like in English), "Vache" becomes "Vaque"...